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toe overlap + front fenders = face plant

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toe overlap + front fenders = face plant

Old 02-11-11, 07:18 PM
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noamb
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toe overlap + front fenders = face plant

Did you know that if you have toe overlap and front fenders, you can be just biking along, and suddenly your foot jams the fender into the tire, causing it to get sucked up, until eventually (by that I meant within say 0.25 s) the wheel locks up completely and flings you over the handlebars?

Surprisingly little damage, considering (mangled fender, bruised elbow, cheekbone, and sternum), but still not fun (but now I understand what people mean about the weird time perception when you're in an accident).

Anyway, not something I considered when installing my shiny new fenders (which won't be getting replaced).
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Old 02-11-11, 08:06 PM
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That same thing happened to me several decades ago. I had put after-market fenders on my bike, the kind that wobble around a bit because they are not built into the bike, and I was blasting through an intersection across a four-lane street. My foot slipped off the pedal and hit the fender, and over I went. I remember that I was wearing a backpack and my fall was cushioned by a loaf of Catherine Clark's wheat bread--heavy-duty stuff. After that happened, I bought toe clips.
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Old 02-11-11, 08:09 PM
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that happened to me, too. Just a few weeks ago. I had just started moving from a traffic light and that gut-wrenching sound comes from the front wheel. I went too slow to really crash, but the fender was badly mangled and it took me while to fix.
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Old 02-11-11, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by swwhite View Post
That same thing happened to me several decades ago. I had put after-market fenders on my bike, the kind that wobble around a bit because they are not built into the bike, and I was blasting through an intersection across a four-lane street. My foot slipped off the pedal and hit the fender, and over I went. I remember that I was wearing a backpack and my fall was cushioned by a loaf of Catherine Clark's wheat bread--heavy-duty stuff. After that happened, I bought toe clips.
Well, I certainly hope you learned your lesson. Never ride without a backpack full of bread.
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Old 02-11-11, 08:17 PM
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noamb
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toe clips are not the answer

Originally Posted by swwhite View Post
After that happened, I bought toe clips.
That wasn't enough to save me, unfortunately. I'm still not entirely clear how I did it. I suppose it's possible I was still fumbling with getting me shoe into the clip, and it slipped - it wasn't far from an intersection.
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Old 02-11-11, 10:09 PM
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Front stay-ed fenders + anything with tight clearances (i.e. track bike, modern road bike) = accident waiting for an inattentive moment.

That being said, my track bike has VO hammered fenders and I'm careful not to trackstand against the fender. I've killed two sets of SKSs and I don't expect aluminium to accordion as easily as plastic.
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Old 02-12-11, 04:38 AM
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SKS chromoplastic fenders have quick-release stays to prevent jamming up the wheel. You need to cut down the stays to prevent them catching your foot.
Personally I dont like toe-clip overlap and would not commute on such a bike. I have a med size road bike with plenty of clearance, no TCO and it handles fine.
For racing, TCO is not an issue, you never go slow enough to turn the wheel that far.
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Old 02-12-11, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
SKS chromoplastic fenders have quick-release stays to prevent jamming up the wheel. You need to cut down the stays to prevent them catching your foot.
Personally I dont like toe-clip overlap and would not commute on such a bike. I have a med size road bike with plenty of clearance, no TCO and it handles fine.
For racing, TCO is not an issue, you never go slow enough to turn the wheel that far.
These quick releases don't do much to prevent damage from toe overlap, they are designed to release the fender in the event of debris wedging itself between the tire and fender. If your fenders are a snug fit, and your foot jams them into the tire they will buckle and jam the tire.
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Old 02-12-11, 10:18 AM
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With pratctice one can learn to ride with lots of overlap. Just be aware of your pedal position at all times. Even in an emergency one can learn to automatically not catch your toe in the wrong place. Even in slow going hard turns. If you go too slow all you need to do is put a foot down to prevent a fall. No big deal.
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Old 02-12-11, 11:39 AM
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noamb
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I didn't even notice the overlap for months after getting the bike (almost 3 years now). I think my foot's made contact with the wheel maybe 10 times over the 3 years, and that just led to a bit of a buzzing sound, so it hasn't been a problem in practice. But the fenders are new (maybe 3 months, but a lot of that's been too snowy/icy to ride).
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Old 02-12-11, 12:11 PM
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Odd, I've never crashed from toe overlap... I've had it before, but its never been a problem.
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Old 02-12-11, 12:31 PM
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This happened to my roommate last year. So far I've been lucky and have learned to just be aware of it more than anything.
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Old 02-12-11, 02:03 PM
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If you have a freewheel , you don't have the issue , short front half of wheelbase..
as when you are moving slow enough, to need to swing the front wheel
that far you can coast the the corner.

an other reason why fixtie hipsterisim is not practical , in town .
any more than smoking is hip, and a harmless behavior.

another Darwinian sorting method.

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-13-11 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post

fixtie ... is not practical , in town .
any more than smoking is hip, and a harmless behavior.

another Darwinian sorting method.
disagree.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:43 PM
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SO? it's an opinion , based on 50 years of cycling, in my case..

I'm not doing face plants, getting my feet tangled with the front wheel

.. got some thing different evidence, to benefit the issue with the OP.

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-12-11 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 02-12-11, 08:06 PM
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I've a bit of toe overlap on my hybrid when I ride with big winter boots on, but I know it's there and I've always coasted through any turn that might be a problem... it seems natural to me but I'm always happy to coast a little bit
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Old 02-12-11, 09:47 PM
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91MF
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
SO? it's an opinion , based on 50 years of cycling, in my case..

I'm not doing face plants, getting my feet tangled with the front wheel,

.. got some thing different present evidence, to benefit the issue with the OP.

o so what your saying is, based on your experience over a specific period of time, you must be correct...?
im just wondering how making a comment about those who choose to ride fixed gears is benefiting the issue with the OP? sayin tho... fietsnob relax.


my suggestion for the OP: don't do that.
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Old 02-12-11, 09:54 PM
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Have never had a crash due to toeclip/shoe overlap in over 300,000 miles.
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Old 02-12-11, 10:28 PM
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A lot of us old folks have never had this happen. That is probably due to the fact that we have ridden most of our miles on bikes with more relaxed head tube angles and rarely ride fixed gear bikes in town and, to be honest, most of us have historically done less winter riding than is done today so we often skipped the fenders. I wouldn't take the "I've never done that so you must be doing something wrong" from us oldsters too seriously. Don't be discouraged by these comments. I really don't want to be the last cyclist out there in thirty years; I need the young blood to stay with it.

Even though my town bike has been a fixed gear for over twenty years, it is a very relaxed angle fixie. However, there are some real advantages to the modern, light and tight fixies in urban conditions. Toe overlap is just a price that is paid for those advantages. Forewarned is forearmed. Nice warning OP.
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Old 02-13-11, 01:22 AM
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PB Cascadia fenders have a higher strut mounting on the fenders so the stays are less likely to catch on shoes.
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Old 02-13-11, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
an other reason why fixtie hipsterisim is not practical , in town .
any more than smoking is hip, and a harmless behavior.
Oh darn. Guess I'll just sell my "fixtie" then. Such a convincing argument. And the OP never said what type of bike they were riding, making your bizzare attack on other riders even more baffling.
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Old 02-13-11, 12:35 PM
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Lean the bicycle instead of turning the handle-bars and this happens less...
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Old 02-13-11, 01:31 PM
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Keep your feet out of the way when you're turning? Works for me.
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Old 02-13-11, 01:44 PM
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noamb [no ambulance, or not ambulatory ?]

.. may wish to build up different frameset ,
one with the needed clearance between the BB and the fork to allow for mudguards

British Frame builders made winter training frames built around just that sort of combination.
rear opening dropouts with the needed threaded hole to screw the mud guard strut on.
fender clearance, longer blades, front dropout with eyelet, IE just installing a normal road fork,
and brake mount hole in the fork crown & brake bridge
[brake and mudguard mount].
,



in the meantime, Something like the SKS raceblade,
a strap on quick removal mudguard,
won't keep the wheel spray off your feet, too short for that , but it wont tangle up either, with the TCO.

will keep spray up towards your face and onto your backside to reasonable levels..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-13-11 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 02-14-11, 08:01 AM
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noamb
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not a fixie

Far be it from me to douse an incipient flame war with data, but FWIW, it's not a fixie, just a slightly small frame. I wasn't turning significantly, although I might have been slightly tweaking my direction to avoid some road crap, or maybe I wobbled a bit while struggling to get my boots into the clips (usually I wear sneakers, and the motion is quite smooth at this point, but it was extra cold).

And I don't think the overlap by itself would have been sufficient to make me fly over the bars. After all, even if it slowed me down a bit and prevented me from turning the wheel (like previous incident of toe overlap), I would have wobbled a bit, and probably just put a foot down. The crucial part is that I managed to jam the fender into the tire hard enough to get it sucked up and lock up the wheel abruptly and completely.

P.S. No ambulance - walked half way home, and got a ride the rest of the way. Luckily I was only about 5 minutes out.

P.P.S Yes, I probably should get a bigger or more relaxed frame next time. But like I said, for months I didn't even notice there was any toe overlap.
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