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My coworkers like to call me Lance whenever I bike in. Granted, I usually go in full roadie gear because that's all I have, but still!
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No, I have never received any negative comments from my coworkers.
Shortly after I started commuting, one morning as we were getting ready to leave work, it was raining, my boss asked if I was going to be ok---I asked "Why wouldn't I be?" He replied "It's raining." Response: "I'm not made of sugar,salt or s***, I won't melt. Besides, I have good raingear." Now, three years later, I don't even get the "You rode in this weather?' question/comment any more. |
My co-workers mock me all the time - but never about riding my bike to work.
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No issue. I own the company.
J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12545387)
No issue. I own the company.
J. |
Anyone piched my ass I'd turn around, pull down the shorts and say "oh, I didn't know you wanted to suck it" while walking towards them.
Hint: Any time you can identify someone's insecurities, you can pwn them for life. Just threaten to go where they feel icky and they'll always back down. |
My employer (a large aerospace corporation) requires us to take several classes in ethics training yearly. Any kind of harassment, particularly sexual, is cause for immediate termination of employment. This is drilled into our heads over and over. I am surprised to hear it is still tolerated at other companies.
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Like I said, I own the company.
A number of years ago we had a problem with an employee who had a hard time treating others and the relevant management respectfully. Several attempts were made to solve the problem and change the behavior. Suffice it to say that that person is no longer with us and it is clear to all involved that that any behavior that is not respectful (you can disagree respectfully) is not tolerated. It's been about 10 years now and the respect lesson has been well learned by all and it's now cultural in our company. I would view this sort of behavior described as in the class that I would terminate an employee if they cannot correct it. Similarly, if an employee did the pinching/harassing (verbal or physical) and the harassed employee responded by dry humping the offending employee or further physical reprisals in return, mooning or anything else (as described here), they would both be subject to disciplinary action and/or termination. In fact, based on what was described, I'd probably not give either offender the opportunity to correct the behavior and just get rid of them - write it off as bad hires. Both acts are just too far over the edge in my opinion and not remedial (or at least to the point that I want to waste time on some knucklehead that believes that sort of behavior would have any place at my company). Neither act is consistent with a respectful environment. There is a lot of good reason for this - never mind that I don't want to get sued by an employee for a hostile work environment - it's just not the sort of thing that has any place in business and certainly not in mine. It's hard to be productive and work together as a team if there is blatant disrespect and harassment in place. How can you trust each other? It's good business to solve those problems for the bottom line if for no other reason. Besides that, it's just the right thing to do anyhow. My advice to the OP would be this - go to your management and ask them to put a stop to it. If they don't, then consider if you want to be at a company that does not respect it's employees. If you are an "at will" employee, exercise that right and leave in the manner and at a time of your choosing. Why would you want to work for an organization like that? If you don't value yourself why would you expect anyone else to? J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12547529)
...
Similarly, if an employee did the pinching/harassing (verbal or physical) and the harassed employee responded by dry humping the offending employee or further physical reprisals in return, mooning or anything else (as described here), they would both be subject to disciplinary action and/or termination. In fact, based on what was described, I'd probably not give either offender the opportunity to correct the behavior and just get rid of them - write it off as bad hires. Both acts are just too far over the edge in my opinion and not remedial (or at least to the point that I want to waste time on some knucklehead that believes that sort of behavior would have any place at my company). Neither act is consistent with a respectful environment. The fact that the initiator even happened creates a liability on your (the hypothetical owner's) part. You should be THANKFUL that the recipient chose to deal with it with good humor and not violence. Instead you would punish him as well??? I understand that management doesn't care about the truth, they care only about liability. But that is a spineless posture, and you full well know it. As someone in a leadership position, you are a abject moral failure. Sorry. |
Originally Posted by nycphotography
(Post 12547622)
I respectfully disagree with you 100%. One act was the initiator, and the other was the response. The two acts are in NO WAY identical.
The fact that the initiator even happened creates a liability on your (the hypothetical owner's) part. You should be THANKFUL that the recipient chose to deal with it with good humor and not violence. Instead you would punish him as well??? I understand that management doesn't care about the truth, they care only about liability. But that is a spineless posture, and you full well know it. As someone in a leadership position, you are a abject moral failure. Sorry. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12547529)
Like I said, I own the company.
... It's hard to be productive and work together as a team if there is blatant disrespect and harassment in place. How can you trust each other? It's good business to solve those problems for the bottom line if for no other reason. Besides that, it's just the right thing to do anyhow. ... J.
Originally Posted by JPMacG
(Post 12547364)
My employer (a large aerospace corporation) requires us to take several classes in ethics training yearly. Any kind of harassment, particularly sexual, is cause for immediate termination of employment. This is drilled into our heads over and over. I am surprised to hear it is still tolerated at other companies.
It amazes me that a company would allow the disruptive behavior the OP describes or the "suggestions" that only inflame the situation. Cultural changes can take a while and in this case, the sooner the better. |
Anyone deal with 'sani-moms', those females that require everything appear and smell fresh scrubbed at all times? When Ifirst started bike commuting a few of them complained that I came in 'sweaty and stinky' cause I rode a bike to work (3 miles, one 30ft high rise, I cruise in the whole way) and insisted I had to take a shower before sitting down to work. The boss asked me about it and was OK with me. This kept happening and I finally solved the problem: One of my drive-to-work days I put my bike and kit bag in my truck. When I got to work I took the bike out, wheeled it up to the building and locked it to the bikerack, then proceeded inside with my kitbag (with helmet on top.) As soon as the complaints began the boss asked me about it. I mentioned "No I didn't ride in today. I drove into work with my bike in the back of my truck and didn't want to leave it out in the lot, so locked it in the racks and brought the bag inside for safety." The sani-moms were proven wrong, and now I'm riding with no complaints.
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Originally Posted by nycphotography
(Post 12547622)
I respectfully disagree with you 100%. One act was the initiator, and the other was the response. The two acts are in NO WAY identical.
The fact that the initiator even happened creates a liability on your (the hypothetical owner's) part. You should be THANKFUL that the recipient chose to deal with it with good humor and not violence. Instead you would punish him as well??? I understand that management doesn't care about the truth, they care only about liability. But that is a spineless posture, and you full well know it. As someone in a leadership position, you are a abject moral failure. Sorry. If one person is disrespectful and bullies the other, it is not OK to turn around and do it back to them. To allow that as management would be the abject moral failure (you miss that part). When did it ever become proper and right to wrong somebody (everybody?) else to make one thing right? A business environment is no place for street tactics and back and forth attacks on each other. This is about way more than just the two involved in this - it's about subjecting everyone else to this sick behavior (in both directions). Let me put it this way to you - anyone that behaves as you would advocate would not have a long history at my company and, I would recommend that people with your attitude don't apply because it would be a waste of time for both of us. We don't tolerate that sort of behavior at all and won't start. Let me tell you about some results of this sort of issue - my team works exceptionally well together. Regularly, we get rated as top performers in our industry. This respect attitude transcends our dealings with other businesses and customers - many of whom have had productive and valuable relationships with us for many, many years. Our employees have all been with us for a long time and when we add a position due to growth, I don't have to advertise - high quality people come asking to apply. I take all of that as a big complement. Why would I do it any other way? I wouldn't want to work at a company that tolerates the kind of behavior that you suggest is ok. Fortunately for me, I don't have to - and won't. If you own your own business then try running as you advocate and let us know how that works out for you. J. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12549835)
The thing you miss is that this is disrespectful and inappropriate to everyone else besides the two miscreants involved in this instance.
Also, the knee-jerk response would normally be for the victim to snap and get violent, rather than respond with irreverent, crude humor to match the crime. I'd give the victim credit for good humor and a little creativity. But I guess creative people don't fit into some companies. Moral of the story...and you should know it as much as anybody...get all the facts before making rash, one-size-fits-all judgments. |
Tell them, "That's why you look (their age +15 years) and I look (your age -5years).
You wish you looked this good. Try standing uncomfortably close later in the day to the one that likes to pinch/ pat your bottom. My cloths keep me warm, dry, comfortable. Your cloths cover up your ugliness. Can you put more on? Ask them to ride the last couple miles with you (if you ride that far) to see what it's like. They'll usually respect you after that. |
JohnJ80 & Chipcom:
Both of you have good points, let me fill in a little more detail about the kind of people I work with: The owner is a former union blue-collar worker. When he is dissatisfied with his employees, he resorts to yelling and uses language that would make Al Capone look like a saint. All of the managers were field workers that were promoted for the wrong reasons: Other companies offered them positions, they handed in their resignations, boss needed them, so promoted them to well-paid managers and gave them company vehicles. When painful decisions are made, the owner & his wife disappear and leave the managers to do the firing/layoffs. I've been there for 11 years now, and had maybe 4 or 5 very brief discussions with the owner, even though his office is 50 feet down the hall. My direct supervisor takes personal time off without informing anyone on his team. Bosses sneak out the door two hours before closing time and hope no one notices. I have a disabled kid, and my supervisor openly told a few co-workers that my kid was "all f----d up" while I was standing there. He repeats that often. Things got somewhat better after we hired a CFO that has worked for big companies and gave the owners some tips on how to run a business better. Not everyone is unprofessional. I would say about 50% are decent, respectful professionals. The 'ribbing' I get is probably 50% funny, and 50% downright insulting. Unfortunately, some of the immature employees happen to be the managers. Fret not, I have my way of dealing with their behavior, it is just irritating. This week, I will commute on my bike, and will see if anyone has something positive to contribute now that gasoline prices are outrageous, 80% of the office has been told they are at risk for cardiovascular disease & diabetes (we had a fitness strength test a couple months ago), and 40% are chainsmokers. Hopefully they will look at me differently. I will keep y'all posted on what goes on. p.s. I asked a few employees if they would be interested in joining me after work for trail riding not too far from the office. Only two showed interest, the rest all had the same excuse..."my butt hurts whenever I sit on those dinky little seats". p.s.s. I have to agree with JohnJ80: No employee should have to be subjected to ridicule for his/her personal decisions. And no employee should have to resort to revenge-type behavior to make a point. |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12549835)
If one person is disrespectful and bullies the other, it is not OK to turn around and do it back to them.
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Originally Posted by green427
(Post 12550181)
p.s.s. I have to agree with JohnJ80: No employee should have to be subjected to ridicule for his/her personal decisions. And no employee should have to resort to revenge-type behavior to make a point.
Anyhow, in a small shop, you can deal with most people by taking them aside. You shouldn't HAVE to because a respectful work environment is the responsibility of the boss. (Maybe that knee jerk reaction to fire everyone stems from the insecure feeling when someone knows the didn't do their job?) But to be fair, it's also the responsibility of everyone. You should probably have been working over the last 11 years to help make it so. If you had been doing a little more yourself, then you probably would benefit from those efforts now. |
Originally Posted by green427
(Post 12550181)
JohnJ80 & Chipcom:
Both of you have good points, let me fill in a little more detail about the kind of people I work with: The owner is a former union sheetmetal worker (tin-knocker). When he is dissatisfied with his employees, he resorts to yelling and uses language that would make Al Capone look like a saint. All of the managers were field workers that were promoted for the wrong reasons: Other companies offered them positions, they handed in their resignations, boss needed them, so promoted them to well-paid managers and gave them company vehicles. When painful decisions are made, the owner & his wife disappear and leave the managers to do the firing/layoffs. I've been there for 11 years now, and had maybe 4 or 5 very brief discussions with the owner, even though his office is 50 feet down the hall. My direct supervisor takes personal time off without informing anyone on his team. Bosses sneak out the door two hours before closing time and hope no one notices. I have a disabled kid, and my supervisor openly told a few co-workers that my kid was "all f----d up" while I was standing there. He repeats that often. Things got somewhat better after we hired a CFO that has worked for big companies and gave the owners some tips on how to run a business better. Not everyone is unprofessional. I would say about 50% are decent, respectful professionals. The 'ribbing' I get is probably 50% funny, and 50% downright insulting. Unfortunately, some of the immature employees happen to be the managers. Fret not, I have my way of dealing with their behavior, it is just irritating. This week, I will commute on my bike, and will see if anyone has something positive to contribute now that gasoline prices are outrageous, 80% of the office has been told they are at risk for cardiovascular disease & diabetes (we had a fitness strength test a couple months ago), and 40% are chainsmokers. Hopefully they will look at me differently. I will keep y'all posted on what goes on. p.s. I asked a few employees if they would be interested in joining me after work for trail riding not too far from the office. Only two showed interest, the rest all had the same excuse..."my butt hurts whenever I sit on those dinky little seats". p.s.s. I have to agree with JohnJ80: No employee should have to be subjected to ridicule for his/her personal decisions. And no employee should have to resort to revenge-type behavior to make a point. Knowing those guys, you got two choices: 1. Take it and give back as good as you get, good-naturedly. When they cross the line (which is up to you to draw for yourself), let them know about it in no uncertain terms, then pat em on the back and tell em that's enough about that and move on...till the next episode. 2. Report it up the line and ultimately quit the company for better conditions if they don't take your complaint seriously and/or turn YOU into the cause of the problem, the squeaky wheel, the non-team player, which is the even-odds result, unfortunately. It's up to you, bud...only you can decide what acceptable working conditions are for you. Lord knows that jobs don't grow in trees these days, so I'm not gonna cheer lead for falling on your sword in the name of honor when I don't know the slightest thing about your unique circumstances, all I can give you advise about is how to deal with them if you hang around. With my very unusual last name, mug only a mother could love, non-conformist attitudes...and the fact that I ride a bike to work, I have taken a lot of crap over the years from people too...so I do have some expertise in your shoes that I am happy to share. ;) |
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
If one person is disrespectful and bullies the other, it is not OK to turn around and do it back to them.
Originally Posted by nycphotography
(Post 12550254)
I agree, it is not merely "ok". It is actually morally required. To do less is to shirk your responsibility to decent society.
J. |
Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12550285)
Welcome to the world I grew up in - blue collar rust belt. I know those guys - my Dad was one of those guys, my brothers are those guys...as much of a dick as I can come off as on BF...I ain't one of those guys (but there before the grace of God go I, for sure).
Knowing those guys, you got two choices: 1. Take it and give back as good as you get, good-naturedly. When they cross the line (which is up to you to draw for yourself), let them know about it in no uncertain terms, then pat em on the back and tell em that's enough about that and move on...till the next episode. 2. Report it up the line and ultimately quit the company for better conditions if they don't take your complaint seriously and/or turn YOU into the cause of the problem, the squeaky wheel, the non-team player, which is the even-odds result, unfortunately. It's up to you, bud...only you can decide what acceptable working conditions are for you. Lord knows that jobs don't grow in trees these days, so I'm not gonna cheer lead for falling on your sword in the name of honor when I don't know the slightest thing about your unique circumstances, all I can give you advise about is how to deal with them if you hang around. j. |
I dunno. I'm a foul-tempered hothead of enormous size, so any static I get is behind my back. I *can* say that if someone pinched my a$$, they'd be trying to pick up broken teeth with broken fingers; and if I got fired for it, whomever fired me would have my lawyer drop a sheaf of 'wrongful termination' lawsuit papers right on their chest in the hospital bed. I guarantee I'd get out of jail before either one was done with their physical therapy. Just because you *think* you occupy the moral high ground is no guarantee you'll win the fight, and the legal system doesn't act as a force field or as armor. The term crime of passion covers a whole lot of ground.
People who say that violence never solves anything are the people who never won a fight. Taking a personal issue to Management to sort out strikes me as the worst kind of passive-aggressive cowardice, and isn't to be used as a day-to-day problem solver. It's tattling. It's being a crybaby. HTFU. |
Well, you would get fired for that and you'd lose the wrongful termination lawsuit and you'd probably be in a heap of trouble (assault etc...) and spend a bundle on attorneys. Is that all worth it? Why not just follow the rules laid out by your employer when you, at will, accepted the job?
J. |
Originally Posted by chipcom
1. Take it and give back as good as you get, good-naturedly. When they cross the line (which is up to you to draw for yourself), let them know about it in no uncertain terms, then pat em on the back and tell em that's enough about that and move on...till the next episode.
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12550330)
Well done. This I agree with.
Originally Posted by JohnJ80
Similarly, if an employee did the pinching/harassing (verbal or physical) and the harassed employee responded by dry humping the offending employee or further physical reprisals in return, mooning or anything else (as described here), they would both be subject to disciplinary action and/or termination.
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80
(Post 12550325)
Not in my company. I guess we won't be working together anytime soon.
J. The odds of me deigning to work for you were remote even before I factored in the odds of you being able to afford me. It's ok, I've walked out of interviews before, so yours wouldn't have been the first. Your employees _should_ choose who they work for just as much as you choose who you employ. But you don't sound like that "partners on a team" kinda guy. Anyhow, peace... That world is just not something I have to deal with anymore. |
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