Thank you himespau, these are the main reasons why it is more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. Cars aren't looking for a bike on the sidewalk, riding at 12 to 15 MPH is a lot faster than walking at 4 to 6 MPH as a pedestrian. You are much more visible in the street than on the sidewalk.

I think the biggest reason is pure economics. Bikes don't pay gas tax or license fees. If you want to pay a mileage fee and starting having $200/year tabs on your bike then maybe...

I would be surprised if even the most used bike paths around here carry 1% as many commuters in a given day as the road does right next to it with cars.

It appears that many here want to consider their bikes equal to motor vehicles when the truth is they aren't.
Also, many here appear to be unaware of the dangers of modern driving.

Although my argument may be opposed, no concrete evidence supports the opposition....instead, overwhelming evidence of the dangers of street riding are readily available.
A quick Google search of bicyclists killed by motorists yields thousands of results whereas bicyclists killed riding sidewalks are far and few in between.
Simply saying something is so does not make it so.

Regardless of your beliefs, riding on the road is orders of magnitudes more dangerous and potentially fatal than riding on sidewalks.
The problem is that many here feel that riding on sidewalks is the same as riding on the road and feel they can push the envelope and race past
pedestrians disregarding them altogether. Sad. I can see why those voicing their opinion believe sidewalks are more dangerous.
And that is because the person voicing the comment is likely to be a more dangerous and wreckless person overall.

Also, facts support my argument that the roads are far more dangerous today not only for bicyclists, but for everyone on them including motorists.

Although a British story, our societies are similar...and blames cyclist attitude as a major component...it's only a few years old vs opposing evidence
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...opularity.html

Here's another...just happened..he was struck and killed by a motorists who never stopped....
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...oad-loved-ride

How about a State Champion Bicyclist killed recently?
http://glendora.patch.com/articles/f...-mountain-road

There is an unlimited number of these on the Internet.

Finally....here is the end of the argument.

Data taken from the National Highway Traffic Safety Board which definitively supports my argument.
Counter to some here that have stuck to their claim that most of the accidents involved intersections...here's proof that is incorrect.

First, a summary of US statistics available from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration: 2009 Data

• 630 bicyclists died on US roads in 2009 (718 in 2008, 1,003 in 1975)
• 74 were 14 or younger, a reduction of 58 per cent from the 178 killed in 2000.
• Bicyclist deaths represented 2 per cent of all 2009 traffic fatalities.
• 51,000 bicyclists were injured in traffic in 2009 (Up sharply from 43,000 in 2007)

Please read the last line item in red several times for clarity.

And some more statistics from 2008 data also released in 2010:

• One-seventh of the cyclists killed were between 5 and 15 years old.
• Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 41
• Average age of a bicyclist injured on US roads: 31
• Bicyclists 15 and under killed: 93. Injured: 13,000
• Bicyclists 16 to 34 killed: 168. Injured 20,000
• Bicyclists 35 to 54 killed: 270. Injured 13,000
• Bicyclists 55 and older killed: 179. Injured 6,000
• Alcohol involvement was reported in 37% of 2008 deaths.
• Nearly one fourth (23%) of the cyclists killed were drunk. (BAC over .08 g.dl)
• Fatal crashes typically were urban (69%) and not at intersections (64%).

It is critical to not that this is 2009 data and at the time, the number of Bicycle Road related injuries was taking a VERY sharp increase...just as I had stated.
No doubt, we will see that trend continued in the 2010 data when it is released.

So, while you may argue, you have been proven incorrect by indisputable evidence..

However, if you still feel safe on the roads with your bicycle, by all means you should continue to take those chances.
After all, it is ultimately your hide motorists will devour, not mine.

Personally, I will make the smart choice and I will steer clear of the roads until such time as bike paths clear of the hazards of motorists are made available.

By the way...have any members of this forum ever died while riding their bicycle on the roads? How about sidewalks?

The 2010 data will be ready soon at which time there will be even more overwhelming evidence that riding on the roads is as dangerous as I have said. I will be watching for it's release and post it as soon as it is available.

All the Best !
Be careful out there. :thumb:

Now this is something I can agree with. Motorists out number bicyclists by vast margins.

I am wondering if the sustained pressure of higher fuel costs will increase the number of people forced to take up bicycling as an alternative? Studies so far indicate yes.

I can't rally see a future in America where gas prices are as low as we have enjoyed in the past. Largely due to pressures on demand from developing nations like China who's appetite for oil has soared keeping demand high even as America curbs her appetite.

FAIL

This is a faulty argument.

Your statement applies to bicycles on the road just as heavily. In fact, evidence is that so many motorcyclists are killed because automobile and truck drivers simply aren't looking for two wheeled vehicles. This is a MAJOR concern for Highway safety everywhere. There are many campaigns aimed at making motorists more aware of Motorcyclists. If motorists don't see Motorcycles, what are the chances of them seeing a tiny bicycle?

Most (not all but most) people riding a bicycle on the sidewalk are going much slower and paying attention and not recklessly barreling across roadways as some have suggested.


But thanks for playing :lol:

Where I ride, biking is illegal on the sidewalk. Boston, Cambridge and some other suburbs. Riding on a sidewalk, cars can't see you and don't expect you there. Its not a RIDE walk. Around here bike paths work good too. Where is UP TOWN JOE when you need him, you guys should talk.

Peddlephile:

Has this been normalized for cycling miles traveled on sidewalk vs. street?

Wouldn't a cyclist that gets hit in an intersection coming off of a sidewalk still be counted in these stats?

As to your red line: Are the roads really more dangerous or are there just more cyclists than there were in 2007? Plus you cherry picked the stats. The number of cycling deaths in 2009 was the lowest in the decade except 2003 (which had 1 fewer death) and lower than it was in the late 90's. Overall, it's been pretty flat.

Since to get anywhere on a bike you have to cross a street at some point and since intersections are frequently where accidents occur, I don't see where you've shown sidewalks to be safer. Especially since crossing an intersection from a sidewalk makes it less likely a car will see you.

FAIL.

I read those studies before you even posted them and noted that the make no comparisons to riding bikes on the road or sidewalk. Unless I'm mistaken, isn't that what we are talking about here?

None of these statistics compare the relative safety of riding your bike on the sidewalk vs riding it on the street. The links I posted do just that and show it to be many times more dangerous riding on the sidewalk to riding on the street. The argument that this makes is the whether to ride a bike or drive a car. If you want to make that argument, then you ought to be doing that in a car drivers forum not in a cyclists forum. I had presumed we were talking about where to ride a bicycle most safely not whether to ride a bike or drive a car.

Your note indicating that there are more accidents in the last studied year are not corrected for the hugely increased number of cyclists. You need to be normalizing this to accidents per mile ridden to get an actual measure of the danger. That is not done. If so, I'd bet you that, if anything, cycling has become safer per mile ridden (but that is another topic for another time) due to drivers becoming more aware of cyclists. Anecdotally, that is very much happening around here.

Also, do you want me to go out and post individual examples of cars hitting other cars and people getting killed to prove... what? that people in cars hit people in cars? Or that there are examples of people in cars hitting people on bicycles? So what - anecdotal evidence.

Please read the links I provided. Apparently you have failed to do that.

J.

The one stat in peddlephile's favor is the one that says that most fatal accidents did NOT occur at an intersection. About 60% to 70% occur somewhere else. Unfortunately, it's not really broken down any. We don't know how many cyclists where hit from behind, hit because they were were riding in the wrong direction or hit because they were drunk and weaving all over. We don't know how many were unlit and hit at night.

It does say that 28% of cyclists killed were drinking.

But the big thing he was putting forward was it it more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk or on the road. Which this study absolutely doesn't say.

What also he doesn't note is how much safer it is becoming in terms of fatalities. Number of fatalities is almost cut in half from 1975 to 2009 yet the number of bicycles sold every year runs to about 18-20 million units. Presuming that they don't get thrown away, that is a lot of people on a lot of bicycles and is probably increasing. But even it the number of cyclists stays constant, it is still getting a lot safer to ride on the road then (can be inferred). Unless, of course, one presumes that people are continuing to buy bicycles at the rate of 20 million per year and then ceasing to ride them. Pretty low rate of fatality either way.

I guess if he is this worried about it, and doesn't understand the statistics, he probably shouldn't ride on the sidewalk either.

J.

From the studies he's presented, you can't really come up with any conclusions about the safety of riding on a sidewalk vs on the streets. I agree with that.

I think it really just boils down to this: If you understand the risks of riding on the sidewalk and take steps to mitigate them, then it can be more safe than riding on the street. To me this means basically getting off the bike at every driveway and street crossing.

There are other occasions when riding on the sidewalk is safer than being on the street. There's a sidewalk near my house that runs along the border of a golf course uninterrupted for about 1/2 mile. I would argue that taking that sidewalk instead of the street running parallel to it is safer, though neither are particularly dangerous. It's not safer for the pedestrians I may encounter and it's always possible that I may get hit by a stray golfball.

There are streets that are particularly dangerous for various reasons for cyclists and there may or may not be sidewalks nearby that are safer. The problem with all the studies is that they don't take into consideration local conditions. I can ride all the way to my job on streets where the speed limit doesn't exceed 30 mph and where the drivers are used to sharing the roads with cyclists and pedestrians. It's not like that everywhere.

Of course not! Driving sucks. I'm NOT the ones driving.

Do you drive? Stop that, it's obnoxious! If you must drive, please do it on a closed course.

It's always possible to find a particular sidewalk that is safer or a particular road that is more dangerous - those are really meaningless exceptions because because cherry picking examples is not representative of the whole. Mile for mile ridden, I think it's been pretty clearly shown in a number of studies, that a given cyclist is safer on a roadway than on a sidewalk and safer by a wide margin.

Finally, one can talk all the precautions one wants to but it's impossible to foresee the unforeseen but it is accounted for in the aggregate of the data. Let's just say that you could have a cyclist who could prepare and anticipate every potential hazard and never have an issue. That cyclist would be no more representative than the uber safe stretch of sidewalk along a golf course that is never used by anyone except (say) you. Either way, those are outliers.

Now, if the OP is referring to a particular stretch of road or sidewalk, then the generalization wouldn't apply (obviously) and this is meaningless. However, that wasn't the way this was presented and it still remains that all the data and studies point to the fact that sidewalks are multiple times more dangerous to a cyclist than are roadways.

J.

I mentioned a particular sidewalk to illustrate a point that streets aren't always safer than sidewalks. Yes I was cherry picking. ;)

The larger point I was trying to make is that whatever study national study you're looking at the aggregate data may lead to conclusions that don't apply to specific areas. There are places where the streets/highways are pretty hostile environments for cycling. Often there are no sidewalks in those areas anyway, but if there were, they very well may be safer than the street.

So I'd say consider the stats, understand the risks (to you and your fellow humans), and make your own judgement.

Elevated bikeways is an awesome idea.

This is not the first time the auto-centric consensus of bike forum members has disgusted me, and I'm sure it will not be the last.

Cyclists pay more than their share. Gas and license fees don't pay the full cost of the road, so other taxpayers, including cyclists actually subsidize drivers through general taxes.

The data you are citing probably includes cyclists killed on the sidewalk and the road, so it is not informative.

Cyclists in this forum have died. I don't know how many were on the sidewalk or road. The one I am most aware of was killed on a rural highway but I doubt there was a sidewalk he could have been using.

You can't infer much from how many of each are on google. First of all, as mentioned some of those accidents occurred on highways where there was no sidewalk as an alternative and the only option for cyclists was the shoulder. Secondly you can't compare the gross numbers - you need to know the base rate or base mileage of each mode to calculate the relative risk. Way more people die crossing the street than skydiving so I guess walking is more is more dangerous than jumping out of a plane?

Peddle,

I am not sure where your confrontational attitude is coming from. I think it is a bit of a stretch to imply that those commenting against riding on sidewalks are the ones that are acting recklessly. Your studies do not break down how many of those accidents happened on the road vs the sidewalk.

The most dangerous part of riding on a sidewalk is crossing driveways. Like I said, drivers are not looking for a fast moving vehicle on a sidewalk, and compared to the average speed of a pedestrian, a bicycle is a fast moving vehicle. Drivers are used to pulling right out to the street and then stopping. A pedestrian can stop almost instantly, a bicycle needs time to stop, even that split second can mean you end up in the side of a car.

Here are some statistics from the Pedestrian and Bicycling Information Center and Cornell:

- Motorist turns left in front of cyclist: 42% of bicyclists were on sidewalk
- Motorist turns left into oncoming cyclist: 15% of bicyclists were on sidewalk
- Motorist turns right into bicyclist: 31% of bicyclists were on sidewalk
- Motorist drives out of driveway/alley: 48% of bicyclists were on sidewalk
- Motorist drives through intersection: 15% of bicyclists were on sidewalk
- Bicyclist rode out intersection with signal: 24% of bicyclists were on sidewalk

Here is another quote from this paper:
Furthermore, the quality of the riding surface on most sidewalks is far inferior to the parallel roadway. The vast majority of bicycle crashes that end up with the bicyclist seeking medical attention do not involve a motor vehicle and happen because a rider falls after hitting an obstacle, sliding on gravel or leaves, or loses control. Riding on the sidewalk is fraught with the kind of dangers and obstacles that may increase the chances of that happening.

By all means, ride on the sidewalk. All we are trying to do make you aware of the issues and problems of riding on a sidewalk. Good luck wherever you ride. As a bicyclist you need to be aware at all times, whether on a sidewalk, a street, or a separated bicycle path. :thumb:

So, if there are no sidewalks, where does Peddle suggest I ride?
Right, on the elevated bikeways!
I'll take my chances on the road, even though it's a miracle that I'm not dead or maimed by now.:twitchy:

Ridiculing a god idea is a bad idea.

In New Jersey some of the freeways have cars only access. This is for the comfort of motorists that don't want to mix in with big semi's. The percentage is well below 1% of roads so segregated. How many more pages is this thread going to expend thrashing an idea that is a complete non-starter. Cyclists don't even use the lanes that have been striped off for them preferring instead to cruise on the sidewalks. Or not to ride on surface streets at all. In my town most bicycles get from place to place strapped on top of or behind cars. They are then deployed on trails or parks. When cyclists take to the road its on weekends in packs of 5, 10 or 20 and a car sighting provokes anxiety up and down the peleton until it manages to squeeze past. BASE jumping is arguably dangerous. Cycling in traffic has risks but can be managed accident free for quite a long time. Can you say the same for snowboarding? The attitude most snowboarders, BASE jumpers, moto-cross riders and BMX half-pipe artists have towards their chosen activities should be noted. Get out there and commute. Or don't. Stop the hand wringing and sniveling. It's unseemly. We're better than that.

H

I did not comment before, but I have to say, everything in your posts shows your attitude towards cycling on the road, and it sums up pretty nicely in two words: scared s h i t less.

You know what? So was every one of us at some point. Get a good mirror, protective gear, learn how to ride and get out riding. You will not come over that fear by typing it into posts day after day. You will get over that fear by riding. Face your fears, man. Live a bit. And you know what else? Every one of us is going to die one day, it's a fact. I'd much rather go doing what I love doing, then being frightened of everything while curled up in the chair. No one got out alive from this thing called life. No one knows when their number will be called. So live every day to it's fullest, like it's your last. You can say what ever you like, and everyone has his/hers opinion, but for your own sake, loose that fear, your life will be much more enjoyable. And, please, stop the whining.

"Auto centric consensus"???

An elevated bikeway would be ridiculously cost prohibitive. I'm a big bike proponent, but I sure wouldn't want to pay for that.

Recently, I was involved in community input on a road project in my town. One of the options was a pedestrian/bike friendly bridge over the existing two lane road. Cost of that bridge was $1.2M and that was 4 years ago. The resulting design, of which one of the goals was traffic calming was to create 3 roundabouts and put wide shoulders on the roadway between them. Previously, there was no shoulder and this was a non-bike friendly roadway although it was bordered by a heavily used multi-use path. Now, the traffic goes slower, there are far less accidents, fast cyclists can safely ride on the road (shoulder) where they couldn't before and slower pedestrian traffic/slower cyclists/inline skaters etc... can use the associated multi use paths. The cost for this almost 1.5 miles of roadway was $1.2M - or about the same at the one bike friendly pedestrian bridge. I like the solution that was implemented much better and there are no stop lights either. On top of that, there wouldn't be the eyesore that an elevated bikeway would be (nor the climb up to it).

It doesn't take much to make a roadway be quite bike friendly. Just putting wide shoulders in place and keeping the intersections under control (roundabouts are great) makes an immense difference.

Riding on a heavily used MUP is just plain dangerous if you have any speed much over walking speed. You also get the bonus danger of having the intersection issue mentioned numerous times above.

J.

I am a bicycle and pedestrian planner and I agree with you John. Sure if there was unlimited funds, then an elevated bikeway would be nice to have for some riders. The reality is that is a damned hard to get funds to even create a bicycle trail. In my area we have an old rail line that hasn't been used in over 30 years. For at least the last 20 years, there has been a trail planned along this line. We are still trying to acquire the funds to purchase the land to even build the trail.

It is significantly less expensive to create on-road bicycle facilities. Fortunately we finally have people at the Federal DOT that see bicycles as more than just recreation. That coupled with more and more states adopting Complete Streets legislation, we will begin to see more thought giving to designing and upgrading roads to take into account all road users.