Be nice. Half the fun of cycling is obsessing over the equipment. Don't like it, don't read it.

J.

Yep. And it's an easy fix to cut aluminum. If you need to refit it to another bike, it's a simple part to get. yet, when complete it looks nice an finished.

J.

High maintenance - no. Pedantic - a little. Perfectionist - probably, but I'm enjoying the process and besides, I can't ride my bike at the moment as I've been quite ill recently and need to recover.

Well, I've fitted the RackTime Addit to my bike, clipped on an Ortlieb Vario to see how well it fitted, and was disappointed. Whilst I can fit the bag further back on the rack to minimize heel-strike, I couldn't secure the lower part of the bag because the elasticated hook (not a bungee, just a rubber strap) can't be positioned at an angle to hook on to the rack. I tried a number of adjustments of the mounting system but to no avail, so the Vario is going back to the shop. I've also ordered an Arkel Bug so I'll see how that goes, hoping it'll work better than the Vario so I'll be able to use it on my daily commute.

Well the Bug arrived and I fitted it on the rack, it's a slightly better fit than the Ortlieb Vario as the lower securing hook is attached to a more flexible bungee rather than the stiff rubber strap used by the Vario (which just didn't work to secure to lower part of the bag). However, with the Bug mounted as far back as possible on the rack, I've found that the bag does move forward about 1cm which is enough for heel-strike to occur. I'll try wrapping some insulating tape around part of the rack to prevent the movement but the Arkel's cam-lock fixing system doesn't strike me as being as durable or as secure as the Ortlieb systems. I did try to pull the Bug off the rack but it stayed put, but after years of use I wouldn't be surprised if the spring-loaded cam-lock mechanism became weaker, but only time would tell I guess.

For me though, the Bug is a bit disappointing given the price - it has no inner pocket or organiser which is essential for a commuter bag; granted you can buy a separate laptop bag with mesh pockets but this adds an extra £26 to an already expensive bag. The addition of a mesh organiser pocket inside the outer zippered compartment would be a great improvement to the Bug.

But it does seem that convertible pannier/backpacks all seem to suffer from the same problem, that the lower securing system is always a hook on an elasticated strap and unless that hook can be fixed directly below on the rack then the bag will move as it's pulled forward by the elastic strap. Unless your rack has horizontal dog-legs long emough to allow the elasticated hook to be attached vertically with the bag mounted at the furthest rear position on the rack, then you're more likely to encounter problems - I think a rack like the Tortec Expedition would work well in this case so maybe I should have bought one of those instead of the RackTime AddIt, but I didn't want a full-on touring rack for my commuting bike.

For bikes with short chainstays (435mm on my bike) and for riders with large feet, the elastic strap is more likely to be an issue, as I've found, so I'm starting to think that I'm better off just getting giving up on the convertible backpack/pannier and just plump for the Ortlieb panniers with their rigid QuickLock adjustable lower fixing system which would (I think) alleviate the issue with the pannier moving forward.

If The Ortlieb Vario and Arkel Bug dispensed with the elastic lower securing strap/hook and used a moveable plastic clip to secure the lower part of the bag, there'd be none of the issues I've encountered.

User error all the way.

Both my wife and I use Ortleib Backrollers and Arkel Bugs with a very similar rack to yours (we use Tubus Logos) on bike with short (42.5mm) chainstays. If your panniers are mounted properly then they will not move.

Go find someone to teach you how to properly set up your panniers. There is no logical reason aside from user error why neither of these panniers will work for you.

Did you actually adjust the hooks on the Bug to position in all the way back on the rack to avoid heel strike? Also, the three outer pockets are great for organizing small things. Earlier models had an inside pocket, and it was very hard to access with a full pannier, making it useless.

As for the cams failing, Arkel has a lifetime guarantee, and the best customer service of any business I've ever dealt with. After several years of daily use and abuse mine are still going strong. You simply need to squirt them with WD-40 once every six months or so.

Can I politely say that you obviously haven't read and absorbed and understood all the facts in my last post, otherwise you wouldn't be telling me that I don't know how to set up panniers; either that or you're just a rude idiot. I don't think I'm being over-sensitive here.

As I said, the cam-locks didn't inspire much longer-term confidence and as a city commuter in stop-start traffic, the only thing I'd be willing to put in the mesh side-pockets would be a water bottle or some trash - think about it.

Obviously I've done everything I can to try to make the Bug work for me but I'm not happy with it and whilst I'm sure the Bug is a good product, it isn't for me, end of story.

I should mention that I've been posting about my process of getting a rack and luggage for my bike to seek advice and info from the helpful members of this forum, and to give back and provide information about my findings for the possible benefit of others choosing a luggage solution, which is generally the purpose of user forums, rather than a place for posting insults.

No, you are doing it wrong. The Bug, which I've used for years in heavy city traffic, removing it at least five times a day as my job takes me all over the city center, is dead solid when properly mounted. After reading your post today I even banged my fist on the back of mine while it was mounted to see it it would slide, and it didn't move a millimeter.

It's sad that when someone points out that you are clearly not doing something correctly, and offers advice based on long term experience with an item you take it as an insult.

Saying that something is faulty becasue you can't figure out how to properly install it (How many racks and panniers haven't you been able to use? How many did you buy and return?) doesn't help anyone.


Oh, and I wasn't talking about the mesh pockets; I was talking about the three zippered pockets on outside the Bug. Maybe you should spend a little quality time with your Bug and get to know it before you post your internet reviews. Urgh.

LOL, thanks for Pendantic thread. I'm looking for a rack too and this saved me from starting my own Pendantic thread. ;)

I'll probably go with the Topeak rack. I have a GT and unfortunately the funky frame looks like may present a challenge, but I won't know until I have the rack in hand. Good luck with the rack and panniers. :thumb:

I thought about buying panniers, but instead I just bungee corded a Milk crate to my rack. Made mounting and dismounting a little tricky, but that's because my bike is slightly too big already.

If you spent $200 on a tubus rack, dismounting over the milk crate would be a non-issue. Just saying. :)

I also find the Bug virtually impossible to move on the Addit rack when the cams are engaged. It's locked on there.

Also, have you adjusted the position of the hooks, You should be able to adjust the hooks so that it's almost an extreme mount with the bag hanging off the back of the rack. I ride a Gunnar Crosshairs 56cm frame with 172.5mm cranks with not especially long chainstays (430mm according to Gunnar so shorter than yours). My shoes are 44.5" (10-5 to 11 US) and I'm a lo-o-ong way from having a heel strike problem. The size difference from my shoes to yours shouldn't be all that big of a deal.

In my commute yesterday, I carried clothes (shorts and shirt), laptop, iPad, work shoes, and misc stuff. I had a water bottle in the mesh pocket and thought it quite secure. This was for a 15 mile ride over some fairly bumpy pavement. The Bug was locked on steady to the rack.

So I'm thinking something isn't quite right or it is attached incorrectly. Are you sure you have the cams set up properly? Is the release strap properly attached to the cams (if it isn't, the cams won't operate properly). Also, did you adjust the hooks to sit the bag aft on the rack?

Yes, I've adjusted the hooks so avoid heel clearance issues but with the lower bungee hook attached, the bag does keep sliding back a few centimetres. As per this page on Arkel's web site the hooks have plastic inserts and the cams have a plastic surface, in fact, that page does mention at the end of section 2, that "The first sign that the wire hook needs to be relocated is that the panniers will be pulled back towards the center; when this happens simply relocate the wire hook to a different slot" so Arkel do seem to acknowledge the possibility of movement of the bag on the rack.

Are the hooks on your Bug made with the same plastic inserts? I seem to recall reading that the hooks and cams on earlier models were entirely metal and had a habit of chewing up some racks.

My cams are plastic. I cannot conceive of how a bug with the maximum load you could reasonably put in it, could even move if the cams are properly locked on the rack. They'd have to break first. There has got to be something wrong. Could you take a picture or something showing how you have it set up and how you have it locked into place? I had mine loaded to the gills yesterday and it was locked on tight on the rack.

Like I said, my chainstays are 5mm shorter than yours and I have plenty of clearance with feet that are not much smaller. Same rack, same bag.

J.

The bag is loaded with a change of clothes and a few odds and ends so the load is pretty light. If your Bug is empty, does it move along the rack when clipped on?

I appreciate the advice and feedback I've received in this thread and you mentioned the RackTime Addit and the German vendor from who I ordered my Addit. I found your response saying that I should "Go find someone to teach you how to properly set up your panniers" patronising, rude and given that you know very little about me, ignorant.

Are you actually reading and understanding my posts? I've never said anything was faulty nor have I been unable to properly install it, but what I did say was that the Vario and Bug the bags I tried didn't work for me, not because I'm unable to fit them properly, but because there are heel strike problems because the bags move on the rack when I attach the lower securing hook.

How about the size of my feet? That's a logical reason and obviously one you've failed to consider.

The Bug 2011 doesn't have the zippered pockets you mention, just mesh pockets either side and nothing at the front other than the helmet holder and a small open pocket behind that. Arkel have changed the Bug since you bought yours years ago but you obviously didn't consider that before posting your patronising response.

Major user error.

You're welcome and thanks :)

Uh, as other posters have mentioned the Bug is very secure and doesn't move on the rack if properly mounted. I have no idea why you'd take offense at the suggestion that someone could show you how to properly mount your pannier. I guess you simply see yourself as too good make mistakes. There is no shame in finding help when you can't do something properly.

As it is, you have two panniers and can't seem to mount either of them on your rack. Are these the first panniers you've ever used? They can be tricky to mount for a new user. Really just ask a friend to help. Maybe they'll see something you missed.

BTW, there is no need to be a dick when someone is giving you advice, even if you don't like that advice.

I'll check later today, but I doubt it.

http://www.arkel-od.com/legacy/hook_...20-%20main.gif

Note how the release handle, the strapping goes down in the inside of the cams, around underneath and on the outside then attaches to the cams. If this gets undone (easy to do), the cams won't operate properly and you will have *essentially* just hooked your bag on the rack instead of locking it in place. Do your cams look exactly like this and are they in the proper position (not upside down) when locked to the rack?

I don't know if you've seen this, but here is a link with detailed information on adjusting with some nice pictures of how the cams operate.

http://www.arkel-od.com/us/useful-03-attachment


J.

BTW, there is no need to be a dick when offering advice either.

J.

I tried giving good advice and got a nasty response becasue it wasn't what the OP wanted to hear. Too bad for him.

BTW, my bug doesn't move with a light load.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?? Have you actually read my posts? All of your responses indicate that you're not processing and understanding what I've said previously and that's your problem, not mine, so I'd rather not waste any more of my time.

Yes, they do and they are. Referring to the image you posted, when I pull the handle up the cams end up oriented facing from the outer sides of the hook, releasing the handle allows to springs to move the cams back towards their resting position and lock against the rack tubing. If you're saying that in that position the bag shouldn't move at all, even when applying some force to the side of the bag, then maybe the springs aren't applying enough force to the cams to lock the bag in place?

I might take this up with Arkel directly, just in case my Bug is faulty, though I'm pretty sure it isn't. There's no problem mounting it on the rack, just that it moves forward with the bungee hook attached.

Thanks for your ongoing help and patience.

How was my response nasty? Like I've already said, you don't seem to read and understand my posts before replying to them :(

It's easy to get the webbing that ties into the cams messed up if you use the release handle as a carrying handle. Then the cams don't operate correctly.

J.

These two posts lead me to the conclusion that you have two different panniers, neither that you know how to properly mount on your rack. Hopefully with trial and error you'll be able to get one to work. Remember that the further forward the hooks are on a pannier the further back it sits on your rack. Heel strike shouldn't be a problem.

This happens to me once every few months. Simply wrap the webbing around the cam again and you're good to go. It takes about 5 seconds.

Maybe it's just me, but from my posts that you quoted, I can't see how anyone could deduce that I don't know how to mount them on my rack. As I said, the problem for me is mounting them on my rack so that they're secure and don't cause heel strike, and due to the size of my feet (Euro 48 / UK 13 according to my shoes) it's very difficult to mount them (well, near impossible in the case of the Vario) so that the bottom of the bag is secured on the rack.

Try as much as I did to get the Arkel Bug to work for me on my bike, no success. The only way to fit the bag so that I've enough heel clearance is to position the cam hooks so that the bag is way way back on the rack, but the bag is so far back that a medium-heavy load makes the front-end feel very light and the bike's handling didn't inspire confidence at all. Also, the hooks were so close together that the bag's weight is concentrated on a relatively small area of the rack.

It's a shame as the Bug is a nice bag, even though it lacks a few things I'd have liked.

I have found a suitable bag for my commute, the Ortlieb City Bag 2, which is angled to avoid heel strike and didn't require much adjustment of the mounting hooks to provide around 4cm heel-clearance; it also uses the QL2 lock system which works much better so that the bag is secured at three points on the rack. It isn't quite as roomy (21 litres vs the Bug's 25) or as versatile as the Bug, but it can take my paperwork , some bits and pieces and a change of clothes, and it's waterproof without needing a raincover, so it suits me well. Also, because it's quite a short-height bag, it works fine on my Dahon folding bike, which was the main reason for wanting a bag that could convert to a backpack so I could wear it when riding the folder.

Thanks to all who replied to this thread and provided very useful info, I've certainly learnt a lot about what to look for in a rack and panner/bag and hopefully this (pedantic) thread will be useful to others choosing a rack and panniers for their bikes.

I'd love to see a picture of that on your rack.

J.