I go around.

How do you train for a hill on flats? I ask because the area around my workplace is pretty flat, and I would like to improve my hill climbing during breaks from work.

ride in front of a big blowing fan. lol

I'm really happy to find this thread. Am having trouble with hills. Am way out of shape. OTOH, there aren't many hills where I live, but the area I prefer for riding is all downhill "in" and uphill "out". So far basically I just gear down (like 2nd gear) and try to keep my legs moving. But on this one hill, which takes me 90 seconds to up, by the time I reach almost the top (it just levels out at the top, no downhill to follow) I'm going so slow the bike is barely moving. I could get off the bike and walk it faster.
sigh. I do have a lot of weight to lose and lots of conditioning to do.
But yeah it's a drag on the hills.
I'm going to try a couple of different things based on some of your comments - how you do it.
One thing is with the high and close bar position of my comfort bike I really can't stand up and ride at this point. Or maybe it's just being too heavy.
When I was a kid I stood up and rode all the time, to get a nice push off. Sounds like some of you all do stand up too, sometimes.

Anyway, just wanted to say I appreciate this thread.
:)

The curious thing that I see all too often in regard to hills is people shifting once they're in the midst of the actual climb. Never really understand that behavior since it is harder on your chain and drivetrain and makes it more likely that you'll drop a chain due to the increased stress.

Yeah I made a thread about hills not too long ago, also, since I still suck at them. :p But I am getting a bit better I think.

There's this one bridge I went over last year, had to get off and walk the bike up. Then I went over it again a few weeks ago and rode the whole way over, albeit in a pretty low gear.

When I take my son to the park in the bike trailer, we go down a fairly steep grassy slope on the way there. Then coming back I have to go up that slope, along with hauling an additional 50 lbs. behind me (trailer + kid). Yesterday I did it in my 2nd to lowest gear, standing on the pedals. It was hard but I made it. I have to be careful to keep my weight over the handlebars as much as possible, or I end up pulling the front wheel off the ground, stopping, then having to climb off and pull everything up.

I live in a pretty hilly area of town, so I always face them when I ride. Still not that great, but slowly getting better.

I have done that before, although now I try to ease up on pedaling for a split second while shifting if I'm going up a hill. How do others do it in regards to shifting and timing as they approach a hill?

First I would say is to track your data for the hill. Strava does a good job at this. I have found that what I often think works well does not pan out on the time, likewise for what I think is not working works really well. I use different methods for different cases. I play around with it until I find what works best.

I often will simply spin on hills when riding a comfortable pace. I try to find the highest gear that I can turn over quickly and click around to find a sweet spot.


When going for speed I have found when approaching a hill keeping a high cadence in a high gear while sitting down is the best approach as I lose momentum I stand and mash for as long as I can. As I lose speed I sit back down and click in to my smaller ring in the front. I then find a comfortable gear and spin and recover. As I feel a bit better I click two up and stand and mash again until I am suffering and click back down and spin. Rinse and repeat. At the top I make a big effort to continue my momentum and try to accelerate all the way through.

I have also found through Strava that my best climbs are average at best. There are allot of folks who move faster than me uphill. On longer segments I do ok as I recover quickly and keep a good pace after the climbs. While I am not going to get a bunch of KOM I have found by being aware of it and working on it I have made great strides in my climbing.

One hill that I track I have data on 85 rides that the time ranges for more than 8 minutes to my PR of 2:46 Without the database information it would be difficult to improve.

http://app.strava.com/rides/12745959#222115267

And I just noticed a lady who has the best time on this segment which is obviously her car. However this same lady is also a local elite triathlete that regularly qualifies for Hawaii and can fly on a bike.

Don't attack the hill by speeding madly, you'll just burn out faster with little benefit. To the contrary: rest on the downhill and keep your cadence constant so you approach the hill rested, but remain in aero position to keep your momentum and build up speed but without expanding energy. While climbing, spin comfortably fast, not too fast but no mashing, no jerking; smooth, fluent, even spins, arms forward and wide (hands on drops or bar ends), smooth, deep, slow breathing with your belly. Do not stand on pedals and do not wobble (bob) the bike sideways, that's just a waste of energy: any bike movement other than forward motion is a waste of energy.

You clearly don't understand, and I don't mean to offend you. I hope you will give this a shot and learn how to shift while climbing. I shift while climbing all the time. There is no stress whatsoever, if you do this right. You have full control over how hard you press on the pedals so you can lower the tension on the chain and shift gently, gracefully and with complete control while climbing. This is a skill you need to learn to be an efficient climber because not being able to shift well while climbing is a waste. You can't climb an entire hill efficiently without shifting since you need to maintain an effective cadence while going up and that means shifting or you will have to start mashing the pedals and that is completely inefficient.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. That is the right way to climb.

There is really no magic to climbing hills. A large part of it is the technique but your strength plays major role. Light, slim people are the best climbers, period. Work on losing weight, it'll make a huge difference in many ways, not just climbing the hills. The more you ride, the more weight you lose, the easier it will be. Don't give up. Ride a lot. Exercise. Eat well. Your body and your mind will thank you for this. It takes time though, don't expect miracles in a couple of months. Remain persistent, but don't overdo anything, you need to enjoy this, don't make it a chore.

Don't stand up and ride, it's a waste of energy.

Also, the lighter and stronger you get you should notice a tendency to lower riding position, to have your bars lower. Since you have a comfort bike, your bars are probably way above the saddle level witch is not optimal. With time you may even need a new bike. But keep an eye on it and if you feel like you can lower the bars then do it. Oh, and make sure you saddle height is proper too, that makes a huge difference.

Look for bridges and ramps, ride against wind, lower you tire pressure (within safe limits), take your bike off-road on a soft surface, sprint hard on flats.

***

Oh, and final advice on dealing with hills: don't ride SS :P

Certain steep hills I have to stand up, as I said above just to keep my front tire on the ground. But the one where that happens is a grass hill, not paved.

Tell that to those TdF riders :lol:

+1. The more you do this, the better you get.

Yep. Sometimes one needs bobbing (upper body or bike) to establish rhythm and novice to intermediate riders like me probably expend more energy trying to be "pro stiff" like that. Just relax your upper body and grip on the bars, focus on getting over the hill, and don't worry too much about some bobbing or rocking of the bike.

I just go up the hill, downshifting as needed. I don't attack it, I don't get out of the saddle. I don't have really big hills on my ride but I have never used the little chainring or the lowest gear on the cassette. Normally I only go as low as 3 on the cassette, in the middle chainring. If I'm sick or something I might go to 2. It cross gears a little but I don't feel too bad about it, the little chainring is such a jump down that I'd then have to upshift to 4 or 5 to make it faster than getting off and walking.

Yeah that kind of annoys me about my gears. For me, shifting from large to middle chain ring feels about the same as shifting down one gear on the cassette. But shifting from mid to small ring feels like dropping 2 gears in the back. If I go to the small ring I usually come up one in the back to keep from dropping off a bunch of speed immediately.

I wonder if there is a good measure to compare headwind speed to a hill gradient. I understand the wind will be variable with gusts and what not but I find myself kicking into the wind on the way home 90% of the time. The road is flat as a pancake but the winds are certainly decent. I would be interested to see how I compare on a hill. I know that on Sunday I was riding with a buddy of mine in San Clement along the coast. It was pretty hilly there and I seemed to have little problem climbing the hills where as he was dreading each little incline. In March I would have probably dreaded the same hills.

Got a couple of good ones near the end of my commute.
Usually get a bit of a run at them and progressively downshift to 1st gear. If I'm on the road bike I usually stand up and slog my way up.
There is virtually no car traffic so sometimes If I'm feeling lazy I'll switchback and forth across the roadway for a breather but I really keep my head on a swivel if I do that.

+1 to a year-old post, but yeah. I take my FG on group rides, and people think I'm showing off on the uphills. Must... not... stall!

Climbing out of the saddle for short periods is a great technique. Good for a quick acceleration, for getting over short climbs, and for changing the muscles you use on longer climbs. It does take more energy, but unless you are riding at your threshold, you should have plenty to spare. For long in-the-saddle climbing, keep your cadence at about 90-100 in a lower gear.

I don't think , I just pedal until I'm over the hill.

I think the best you can is intervals. I'm not really one to advise anyone on training, but basically alternate all-out sprinting efforts on and off. Try short intervals and long intervals. Google interval training for some plans.

For short, steep hills, I'll usually shift to a gear like 48x20, and get out of the saddle, and try to maintain about 15mph. But for me, this only works for things like freeway overpasses, etc...6% grade for 1/8 mile or so. Longer hills, I'll drop to the lower chain ring (34t) and find the cog that works best for the hill I'm climbing, in order to keep my cadence up, and not lose too much momentum.

LOL saw a guy on the monster group ride the other night on a FG with a 30-something front ring, maybe even smaller. He was having to pedal MAD fast just to keep up on the flats!

All my bikes are road bikes, long hills I am going to stand up, shorter hills I sit down. Not too many hills in my 26 RT commute.

By the way, your 27 mile round trip IMO, is about average for all us commuters.. I know I will get corrected if am wrong.. ;)

I'll bet it was darned cartoonish on the downhills. :thumb: I was spinning at 140 RPM a couple times during yesterday's group ride.

I start by taking a good chug of water, which, psychologically or not, gives me a huge burst of energy. Then I straighten my body up and spread my shoulders to allow the air to circulate smoothly in and out of my lungs. Next, if it's a really huge hill, I psych myself up to get HALFWAY up it so that, when I reach the halfway point, I only need to psych myself up for an additional half-a-hill. Finally, I put on a huge smile, which loosens me up and somehow adds some umff to my stride. If I'm still feeling tense or stiff, I take both hands off the bars and proceed to take the hill as if I'm not at all phased by it. This final phase SOMETIMES works, but sometimes just makes me look like a jerk riding no-hands.

Ultimately, whether I feel like a big shot right after climbing the hill or not, the hill wins...somehow!

Depends if the hill is small I'll stand up and petal all the way to the top. If its a large hill ill still try to petal to the top. But it its a steep hip then I'm going to shift to a high gear and petal to the top.

Depends on the hill.

But a little waving side to side keeps me from downshifting on the geared bike.
On the fixed gear I try to stay at 40 rpms on the bridges ... about 12 miles per hour so I don't burn out.

This suits me as well. When riding my SS I will try to add speed before I hit the rise just to have some momentum, then drop into my normal flat cadence. I carry that cadence as long as I can and standing helps. I find that the hills are much easier to handle, that way.

My normal commuter has a 2 speed hub. My experience with it is that for shorter hills, it seems much easier to use high gear in SS manner. for the longer hills, I generally will shift early and just spin up. With a 2 speed hub, there is a big step between low and high, and the overall range is a compromise anyway, i.e. high is too low, and low is too high).

-G