I still love my 2011 soho dlx! I have over 3,000 miles on it. I have had to change a couple of flats. I don't think it is a big deal if you have all the right tools. I could probably do it in 15 minutes. I switched to schwalbe marathon plus tires with thorn resistant tubes and haven't had a flat since.

I did have a broken rear spoke and that was a pain due to the roller brake.

I really enjoyed the belt drive (1st gen) for the year or so that I rode a bike so equipped. IMO belt + IGH is a great combo for really wet/muddy/snowy commuting. In the dry, I do not believe the belt offers enough of an advantage to justify the expense vs. chain drive.
As a Western Rocky Mountain (high desert) dweller, I've gone back to a chain + IGH (Nuvinci at the moment) after having sold an ill-fitting belt drive bike.
If I lived in New England, the high alpine environment or similar climes (wet, snowy) I'd go with a belt. Chain cases do work, but the add yet one more thing to mess with when changing a flat.

I am about 7 months into my Alfine 11 + Gates CenterTrack drivetrain build on my Bryant. I commute (at most) three days per week, only 2 miles each way, with a few hundred feet of climbing. My bike is a moose at around 35 pounds. When everything is dialed-in, this bike is a dream: quick, responsive, and rock solid (if that is even possible). I have had two flats (both rear), despite having super flat-proof tires. They were both a PITA to change, but I think it is because I was just so used to a traditional derailleur set-up. After being forced to do it a couple times (having walked the bike home both times), I now carry the 15mm wrench tire irons, and a spare tube with me. I think I could change it in less than 10 minutes the next time it happens.

In the "would I build it again" arena: probably NOT. I have a new road bike that will be here in a week (LeMond was stolen a month ago). I can't WAIT to get this new bike with the "simplicity" of the traditional drivetrain. My Alfine 11 has been a *****. The damn thing will jump gears on me: the LBS adjusted it twice, finally blaming it on cable pinch, so I now have a cable zip-tied all the way from the handlebars. Nice. Still skips. Tensioning the belt is also a pain: I have never been able to nail the target tension. God, a chain and derailleur system seems so "tried and true" to me, and it is SO much lighter weight, I will probably eventually just dump the Alfine and get XTR or even try SS. Paraffin on the chain is pretty damn clean, and honestly, when it is raining -- I drive the car to work. I think the BEST way to run a belt is with a system UNLIKE the CIVIA Bryant -- something more like Spot's, where you set the tension ONCE, and the drop the wheel DOWN to change the wheel.

I am looking at buying a Civia Bryant but with Alfine 8spd. I rode this bike last week and it was a dream. The Alfine hub was spot on once the LBS had indexed it properly and the frame felt strong and really comfortable. I like it. The prospect of not having to clean and re-lube a chain transmission every other day when the weather is ****e is very attractive for me as I ride 65-70km every day 6 days a week. Your review seems unnecessarily negative. You make no comment of riding the bike itself just whinge about the fear of a puncture and removing the rear wheel. Why didn't you fit Schwalbe MP+ if you were so worried about punctures?

Maybe you are not that practical when it comes to bike maintenance?

My experience mirrors jpatkinson. Almost exactly. Bike is great in theory but a pain in practice.

You can think whatever you want. I've built up bikes from scratch and rehabilitated one left outside through two Boston winters. Igh /belt is not for me.

Bus, I thought we were discussing bikes**********

Fair enough. But the Alfine hub is a good one as is the Rohloff. So is the hub gear on my Brompton.

Deraillieur transmissions have their place and plus points but foul weather is their Achilles heel. They are best in fine weather and a PITA when faced with rain, mud, grit and bad conditions.

According to a bike shop guy that I talked to, the older belt drives were not good in winter (snow and ice would get into the belt teeth and screw things up), but the newer "centerline" belt drives are fine in the winter.

Ajax Spot - Alfine 11 and Gates CenterTrack. I've had to change the rear tire a couple of times. Luckily, the first time was at home where I could watch (and re-watch) the YouTube video on changing a Shimano IGH rear wheel. The Alfine 11 is easier than the Shimano 8 speed IGH because it has an easy way to detension the gear cable. The Spot has a great rear tensioning mechanism that will preserve the belt tension even when you remove and replace the rear wheel. I hope others will adopt similar mechanisms.

So far I don't really see the point of switching to a belt. I can certainly see the benefits of an IGH when riding regularly in bad weather since I had lots of problems keeping my derailleur gears working in midwest winters. But that's a separate issue from belt vs. chain. I never had any issues with the chain when riding 3-spd bikes with standard chain covers (not fully enclosed but still protective) in all kinds of weather. Maintenance consisted of adding some drops of oil every few months and replacing after a few tens of thousands of miles. Hardly a burdensome maintenance routine. Seems like the belt is solving (or maybe not solving) a problem I've never experienced.

Try riding on the roads I ride on. I can take a brand new chain, ride to work once in bad weather, and when the mud dries off, I have a chain that is encased in solidified mud with rust colored stains, and the chain doesn't bend anymore without manually grabbing and breaking loose every link. That's a one day old chain.

If I stick to the recommendation and change the chain out when a Park gauge says to, I get 1800 miles out of a chain. I once tried religiously cleaning the chain, at least once a week removing the chain completely, thoroughly cleaning and lubricating. I spent an extra several hours cleaning the chain, and I got 1900 miles out of that chain.

I've tried dry lube, wet lube, motor oil, boeshield, teflon, wax, everything, nothing makes any difference. 1800 miles.

Finally I gave up and just lube it and ignore the fact that it's stretched to hell. I went 9000 miles before finally changing the chain a couple of weeks ago. I had to replace the entire drivetrain, the derailleur sprockets were worn down to paper thin, there hadn't been actual teeth on them for thousands of miles. The sprockets were all rounded off, and the chain was stretched nearly a quarter of an inch in 1 foot.

So I'm sure that I can't make it "a few tens of thousands of miles" - I don't think I would have any teeth left at all after 20,000 miles, and by about 12 to 14 thousand I think I'd be skipping badly.

I'm interested in belt drive but not enough to buy a new bike to try it. I'm pretty cheap.

But your comments about "derailleur sprockets" indicates that you were using a derailleur and the necessary skinny (3/32") chain that goes with it. That's not a fair comparison to a belt drive system since the belt won't work with a derailleur anyway. The comparison should be to a single sprocket, 1/4" chain, at least some minimal chain cover, and no derailleur. That's the kind of drive train that can be replaced by a belt and that kind of drive train I've found to be trouble-free for long periods of time with only minimal maintenance (and I sure didn't replace any chains on my 3-speeds that were only elongated by 1/4").

I remember trying out a bicycle with a belt drive train. I think it was a redline something. but I was turned off by all the binding sound and just wasn't as easy to pedal as a standard chain.

My bike is a 7 speed, the chain is 7.3mm wide (which is a bit over 1/4", I assume it is the same as 1/4" chain).

Bottom line is that I would not switch to an IGH for its own sake, I would do it because I had to in order to do belt drive. The CHAIN is my problem, not the drive system. In order to solve the problem of the chain, I might switch to an IGH so I could use a belt.

The only problem I want to solve here is chain maintenance. Derailleurs don't really cause me any trouble, at worst maybe 1 or 2 days in alternate winters I'll ride through freezing rain and I'll stop being able to shift for the rest of the ride, but that's it. I'm not going to replace my whole bike to get rid of that problem.

Both IGH and belts have their own restrictions on frames which limit you in how many frames you can use (not many). It's certainly easier to find a IGH compatible frame (all you need is horizontal dropouts) than it is to find a belt compatible frame (where the frame has to be custom made for belt drive) but in either case you have to get the frame with the drive system in mind.

I believe that even without the derailleur, I'd still have the same chain maintenance problems. I have no problems with just letting my chain go 9000 miles then replacing the whole drivetrain. My problem is, as I said, that the chain gets covered with mud which splashes up from underneath. Maybe some chain covers cover the entire chain top and bottom, that's what it would take. If not that then the chain is still going to need lubrication once or twice a week anyway.

I'm about a month and a half and 300 miles into belt drive bliss on my CX bike. I'm running the Gates Center track with Alfine 8 hub and JTech bar end shifter. I absolutely love it. I've had one flat on the rear. I had my builder give me a lesson on removing and re-installing the rear wheel. I can fix a flat almost as fast as any of my chain driven bikes with deraileurs. I get NO belt skip, NO gear slip, and minimal noise. When its clean, it is dead silent. Seriously, it makes a clean, well maintained chain sound like a rusty grease pit. When it gets a little dusty, I get some noise, but I haven't pinpointed the source, it may be the bottom bracket, not the belt.

would I do it again? Yes and no. I love the simplicity, low maintenance, and clean look it gives the bike. The ride is so smooth, its ridiculous. My complaints come mainly from associated component issues and cost. Gear range is limited to your IGH. For my CX bike, I'm fine with that, but on a more road oriented bike, I'd want a bigger range with closer spacing. Shifter options are pretty limited if you want to run drop bars. The Versa shifter is WAY overpriced, and the Jtech, while a quality peace of craftsmanship, is a bar end shifter. People seem to have a love-hate relationship with these. I'm still getting used to it, but have had no problems so far. Lastly, the cost is still awfully steep. I paid almost as much for my CX build as I did for my road bike, and that's just not right for what you get out of it. I wanted a specialty bike, so it was a price I was willing to pay, but I don't think I'd pay that price for an all around commuter.

As for gear range, I'm very interested in a NuVinci hub - infinite gears, 350% range - not as wide as a Rohloff, but about 1/3 the price as well, and by most accounts I've read, probably more reliable too.

I'm going to see if I can find an REI store with a Gotham in stock so I can try one, it's probably the only way I'll be able to test ride a NuVinci around here.

If you have multiple cogs in the back then you're using 3/32" chain. The wider 1/4" chain is used on drivetrains with only a single cog (i.e. single speeds and bikes with IGHs). And lots of chain problems go away when you don't have a derailleur - the chain can then easily be covered since it's not changing position for different gears and it's far less prone to skipping since it's held in place by the positioning of the rear wheel rather than just using a flimsy rear derailleur spring to keep a minimal level of tension on it.

I switched to an IGH for this past winter and the weather was so mild, and we had so little snow that I don't think it was given a realistic test. Still in the month between the time I last used my winter bike and the day I decided to clean it up / get it ready for summer use, the links on the chain corroded enough that they would barely bend. And this was on a "rust buster" chain. The bike was kept inside.

I doubt a partial "cover" would help much at all. Water, salt, slush, and grit will find its way in. For example, the steel pipes used to connect the rear heater on my 2003 minivan rusted through this spring. They run through the rear wheel well but are underneath a plastic cover. Didn't stop the salt and slush from getting in there.

I've seen some nasty looking chains in these parts on other single speed / IGHs too.

I agree that a single rear cog improves chain life and reduces the need for maintenance, but I still think a belt would be a huge improvement anywhere you're dealing with a lot of moisture, grit, and salt.

All these posts and only one picture?! Owners unite....post some pics!

I have a Co-Motion Pangea with a Rohloff and belt drive. It was built for touring, but I have also started to use it for commuting because I can no longer stand any other bike. Everything is so easy with the Co-Motion. There is no adjusting the belt after it initially set, the rear drop-outs go straight down so the wheel never changes position to the crank. I have about 500 miles on the bike, and haven't had any flats but I have tried to take the wheel out just to see. It comes out as fast as a derailler/chain set up. It can take a minute to reconnect the external shiftbox, but 1 minute is about it. I have screwed around longer trying to get the chain on the correct cog with other bikes. The belt itself has zero maintenance so far. I also really like the fact that I don't have to worry about wrecking pants with chain oil or getting the leg caught on the sprocket. The down side to this bike is obviously the price, but I wanted the perfect bike that was not outsourced and no matter what I bought it would have been expensive. The Co-Motion/ Rohloff- belt-drive has so far exceded all my expectations. To answer the question, I would buy this bike again in a heart beat.

My main winter use of single and 3-speed bikes was in Fargo, ND and I never had significant issues with rusting chains despite everyday use and only very occasional relubrication. My bikes were kept outdoors which may have been an advantage in avoiding a daily melting/freezing cycle. And chain lubrication was with ample amounts of fairly thick oil (I don't trust the wax-based 'clean' lubricants for all-weather use). The chains got quite dirty, but stayed fully functional for many years of regular use - and with a chain cover I never had my clothing or skin come in contact with the dirty chain.

Given some of the reports I've seen about premature wear of the belt system I'm not at all convinced that this presents an improvement in durability or reduced maintenance requirements over a decent 1/4" chain when used with a single-speed or IGH.

That could be because traditionally they've used far lest salt on the roads in ND than they do in Minnesota. Sounds like that may have changed in recent years though. How long ago did you live there?

At the time they didn't use all that much salt in either ND or MN - they generally used sand instead since the temperatures were usually too cold for salt to be effective. But I also rode quite a bit in winter when living in southern MI where salt use was far more extensive. Didn't have any rust problems with my chain there either, but the frame and steel rims sure rusted quickly.