jpatkinson

I just started commuting on my bicycle yesterday in SF. Every cyclist I have seen (and there are MANY) just BLOWS through 4w stops. I have been reading how much anger there is towards SF cyclists in our online newspaper, but I had no idea why. NOW, I understand it. I actually chatted with a guy at a SF Bicycle Coalition tent today -- he didn't even know the term "Vehicular Cycling." I came to a stop at a sign today, a lady in her SUV to the R was already there. I literally had to aggressively motion for her to move through the intersection. WTF?

hopperja

I feel safe running a stop sign at slow speed, in my car and on my bicycle. Why should I have to stop completely when I feel safe not doing so but YOU feel better when YOU do? I feel safer with multiple reflectors on each wheel, so you should have to have multiple reflectors on each wheel too, right?

You should sit and watch a stop sign sometime. 9 out of 10 motorists don't come to a complete stop. I think motorists should have to, but definitely not bicyclists.

Most bicyclists (in my experience) blow stop signs. The fact the law says they should stop makes all cyclists look bad. It doesn't matter that nearly all motorists don't stop, for some reason, the I'm-not-completely-stopping motorist believes the cyclist should have to completely stop. Laws requiring cyclists to stop only perpetuate this.

vtjim

Get used to that. It happens all the time. You can be stopped, feet flat on the ground. Drinking from your water bottle even. The driver will sit there waiting for you.

Sometimes if I'm close enough, I'll reach up and tap my stop sign.

david58

Living in Albany, and commuting thru our towns first roundybout, I don't mind it in the morning, since I am out before much traffic. But a bike in the roundy in the afternoon confuses the drivers. They are bigger and harder than I am, and don't like it when they are confused and I am in the midst of them.

I obey the stop lights - stop signs generally get a "track stand", tho very brief lest I "track fall". I usually unclip approaching every stop sign, so I am ready to stop if I need to.

As a driver, the cyclists that own the road (blow stop signs, weave traffic, etc, etc) piss me off. I do my best to represent the "good side" when I can - I try to let cars do their car thing and never insist on any right of way. Being right and on the gurney isn't my idea of fun. I'm just old, old enough that I was taught cars are dangerous, and to give them the right of way. Has worked so far...

eric_the_poor

I always stop at red lights, but I honestly can't remember the last time I stopped completely at a stop sign. I just got sick of all the drivers doing the wave while inching foward thing. I know its probably bad to just roll right through stop signs, but it sure eliminates the guesswork.

hopperja

This is exactly what most - I'd guestimate 90%+ - of drivers do. That being the case, why should cyclists have to completely stop at a stop sign? The rules are the same, but why should the actual behavior be any different?

Top Gunner

My opinion: Red lights (should) = stop signs. Stop signs (should) = yield signs. Cyclists (should) assume responsibility in adhering to these laws.

I think there should be incentives such as these for cyclists, given its benefit to the environment as well as traffic congestion. I understand the argument that bicycles should have the same rules of the road as a car, but bicycles aren't cars. We are lighter (less damaging) vehicles, moving much slower, with senses more in tune to our surroundings.

With all that said, I obey the laws as they are, while advocating for reform. A car is not an enemy I wish to have.

Anonymoose

^^^I agree with everything you've said but this "with senses more in tune to our surroundings." People are absent minded no matter the vehicle.

kjmillig

There's no poll response that says "It depends".

MNBikeguy

If you were stranded alone on a desert island, would you eat your brochette dijon flambe`with a spoon or a fork?

paul2432

I nearly always stop at red lights and wait for green. If it is clear, I'll roll through stop signs, particularly in a residential sub-division.

If I regularly traveled through a high crime area at night, my response would be different.

Paul

squirtdad

I have seen many people post that most drivers don't stop fully at stop signs. I simply don't see that behavior here in San Jose. It is notable when someone does NOT stop fully in a car. Maybe it is just my normal route that has stop signs. It is often heavily traveled and includes a lot of kids, and people will have fender benders if they don't stop. this is Epecially true with the many 4 way stops signs I deal with. YMMV

unterhausen

I would question you on that, but I was in California recently, and not only did I see most drivers stopping for stop signs, they also approached them at a ridiculously low speed. It was really starting to get on my nerves.

Commando303

I don't feel conduct ought to be based on "not provoking the other guy;" laws should be followed because they make sense. The idea that bicyclists ought to do everything motorists do, simply so not to antagonize the latter, doesn't suit my sensibilities.

Fizzaly

I learned the term California stop in drivers ed, and that was the only thing I had ever heard it called until joining this forum, I still call it that mostly because being an Idaho resident and calling it an Idaho stop would just sound funny.

pallen

If you put me in charge of the world, I would start by taking down most of the red lights near where I live. There should be a minimum amount of traffic required in order to put up a traffic control device. There are several intersections I pass on the way to work every day where I almost never see a car go through, yet there is a light. If the intersection is not busy, they should switch to blinking yellow.

chipcom 

Bicycles should be, and are, required to respect the right-of-way of other users of the road, even in Idaho. If that requires a stop, then stop.

pallen

Definitely. I have no problem stopping to promote an orderly, predictable flow of traffic.

Fizzaly

+1 Yup there are three 4way stops that I stop at every day on my way home, in the morning is a different story, I won't blow through a light even in the dead of the night I'm too paranoid. I see cyclists abuse the "idaho stop" law every day and I've seen a few get hit because of it, the "idaho stop" is always a case by case thing.

con

Should we have to stop? yes!
Do I when there are no cars? No!
Just to make it clear the level of hypocrisy I’m apparently capable of in my life, I will repeat my answer.
Should we have to stop? yes!
Do I when there are no cars? No!

MilitantPotato

If I'm not violating anyone's right of way at a light/sign and if someone decides to run the stop sign I won't get hit, I don't stop.

If my running a light makes someone hit their brakes, I messed up. If there's pedestrians, I only run it if I'm sure I won't hit or come near to hitting them. Heavy foot traffic has me stopping as well.

So, with a bit of common sense and courtesy, running a light or sign will only physically harm me at worse, and if I'm safe about it, that most likely won't happen.

lverhagen

I don't know f this has been brought up specifically yet or not, this is a long thread full of a lot of different situations. Ultimately, I think a corollary discussion is worth bringing up despite the possibility of it morphing into mere nitpicking:

What is stopping on a bike? Is it coming to a complete and utter dead-halt in which the bike comes to a stop and the rider puts his/her feet on the ground? Or is it the mere stopping of the bike for a few moments, the rider still poised on the bike ready for acceleration, assuming a clear path ahead? OR, is it just not proceeding into the intersection; I often just ride tight circles on the edge of an intersection until the light changes so as to avoid the trouble of accelerating from a stop. I would love to hear what others think about "stopping" as an action.

Cheers
lverhagen

Slingerland

It depends on two key factors. The time of day and the amount of traffic. I ride late at night quite often, riding mostly on quiet residential back streets with a stop sign every other block. At that time of day with little or no traffic, I don't stop at every stop sign. Riding the same streets during the day changes things though. More traffic, more pedestrians, etc... I always slow down and look both ways, but I don't see a need to stop at every stop sign unless there's a reason to. But around here there's only stop lights on very busy streets and highways, and common sense dictates that you must stop at them most of the time. However, at 2:00 AM with no traffic in sight, I breeze right on past them.

However, after 45 plus years of riding without one, I now wear a helmet...