bluefoxicy

Commuting by bicycle has taught me that I definitely enjoy single trac vehicles better than multi trac like trikes or cars. Two wheeled handling is excellent, and spatial awareness is much greater. I want a 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 250R ... I mean, I want a 2008+, but the 2011 gets 61mpg and the 2008 gets like 52? It's a significant expense (HALF THE OPERATING COST!) for a motorcycle.

An open convertible car would be much better than a standard sedan; but honestly, I still have to figure on the spatial positioning and dynamics of something like 5 times my width. Parking it means I have to deal with its length, which is ungodly... I'm a foot deep and this thing is 15 feet long.

A bicycle is me. A motorcycle is slightly more than me.

Sure, the handling of a car is more forgiving; the handling of a bicycle or motorcycle is much better, but much more temperamental and more skill-demanding.

Has anyone noticed that things with two wheels are just more enjoyable than things with four, motorized or not?

(I've also noticed I feel a great deal safer on a bicycle than in a car, and I feel I'd be much safer on a motorcycle as well; while everyone else complains that I'm not safe without a giant metal shell around me... I can see better around me on an open vehicle than closed. Metal shell is only good for lightning!)

BarracksSi

When you say that "everyone else complains that you're not safe without a giant metal shell around me", they're correct. At least when it comes to getting involved in an accident, that is.

I would own a motorcycle if it wasn't for all the other yahoos out there. My body just isn't strong enough to take a hit like that.

I don't mind riding my bike, though, because it's a different set of rules. I'm not talking about the "Idaho stop" and things like that, I mean that I'm not forced to roll along with cars at the same speeds and same locations. I'm never going to be expected to barrel along the GW Parkway at sixty miles an hour on my Bianchi, nor am I going to be stuck in traffic on Pennsylvania Ave. It's easy enough to stay out of accidents on a bicycle simply because it's so different than a motor vehicle.

About cars not being as much fun -- well, to really have fun handling them, you'd need to go a lot faster and a lot harder, which is completely idiotic on public roads. There are just too many things that can go awfully wrong, and they're all outside factors -- cross traffic, unforeseen pavement conditions, wayward pedestrians, on and on and on.

Parking a car? That's just spatial awareness. I've parked mine in spaces so tight that I couldn't even walk between my car and the ones in front of and behind mine. I've learned a couple simple tricks over the years that I wish I could teach to the ones who can't even parallel park on an empty block.

enigmaT120

Funny you should bring it up; I just got my Walz cap with the slogan: "2 WHEELS GOOD! 4 WHEELS BAD!" in some wierd gesture toward Animal Farm. My main motorized ride is an old BMW motorcycle. Neither that nor my bicycle can compete with my pickup for hauling straw, horse manure, and firewood though.

bluefoxicy

I think I'd be safer on a motorcycle because I can flow with traffic better. In city traffic it's nothing; on the highway... I will die on the highway if some idiot sidelines my car trying to jump 4 lanes to make an exit 50 feet ahead. When some wench hit my truck at 30mph in a turn (she didn't attempt to brake; bystanders said they "thought" she "May have" sped up ...), she was out of it. Went to the hospital for that, came back and sued my insurance company for a truckload more money than the $100,000 medical liability. They basically settled for $30k more than they gave her I heard (which wasn't much to start with), with contingency of release from liability; this tells me you didn't run up $250k of medical bills, you ran up a 2 day hospital visit and tried to extort money.

Wonderful. She went head-on, and her seatbelt and airbag did most of the damage. That's a direct, head-in collision. It's awesome. Run an old car straight into a tree once, you'll see... seatbelt is great, you might crack a rib, chances of death are minimal. Don't do that.

Me? I took it to the side.

I'm unhurt, of course I'm unhurt. Hurting me isn't easy by any stretch, not even with a car.

My truck took the hit to the passenger side, right into the rear wheel. It trashed the tire, bent the frame, mangled the truck bad. Nearly took it in half, really.

Here's the kicker: my error was in misestimating how long it'd take to make the turn. I estimated around 5 seconds, and around 8 for her to reach the intersection; in reality, the turn would have taken 6.5 to complete, and it took her 6 to get halfway through the intersection-- where I was. The guy behind her also hit her car, and reported that she didn't attempt to brake, and also that he judged I'd make it right up to the impact. There were no skid marks from her car.

On a bike I'm more cautious and more aware. Things are just more visible, easier to predict and calculate. For the first 6 or 7 years I couldn't drive my car in the rain at all because I couldn't see, at all. I didn't know where the curb was, where lines in the road were, other cars ... I used the street lights and headlights for a rough estimate of where **** was, and drove where I was pretty sure I was safe. Visual system didn't deal with all the reflective surfaces well at all, not when coming through a shiny reflective windscreen.

Nowadays, I'm the same way, but I can actually see pretty well; yet, still, if I get OUT of the car, it's sooo much better. Similarly, removing my goggles during the rain (actually, even when clear, when the lenses are perfectly clean of water and smudges and any form of dust) makes things much clearer and sharper. In either case, though, on my bike my judgment of what's happening around me--wet, dry, day or night--is so much better. I feel so much more aware, and thus safer and more agile, on a two wheel open vehicle than in a four wheel metal crate.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I get tailgated all the ****ing time! I look in my mirror and some jackass is 3 feet away from my rear tire at 23mph! Do you know how much faster I brake than a car does? And that curve coming up, I don't want to enter it at 23mph, I'll likely fall off or swing wide and it's blind and there's probably another car coming. NOW WHAT?!

At least the motorcycle has brake lights. On the bike, I can give the hand signal for 'stop,' and then when he ignores that I can throw rocks at his car.

Autocross. And still, cars aren't as agile.

I can't do that in an auto, but I can parallel park in spots most people can't get out of if I'm driving a car with a clutch. An auto ... I can't parallel park.

I simply won't drive an automatic. I may concede to a tap shifter if necessary, but I won't own one; I will not drive an automatic in traffic. It won't happen.

Yeah but I ride by myself, I don't haul things, and if I did I'd get a pickup truck. For just moving me, bicycle is great; but if I want to be somewhere 20-30 miles away in less than an hour, I can't do it. Car? ... I just like the bike better. I like two wheels better. Motorcycle seems far better in this use case.

Which brings me right back to my original point: Two wheels much better than four wheels. I just find the bicycle so much more enjoyable and easier to handle than the car; and if it comes down to needing an engine--motorized vehicles are wonderful creations--I think a motorcycle would actually be a huge improvement over just using the car.

But then the rest of America wants to go with huge freaking SUVs, which I HATE because they're bulky, hard to handle, and have poor visibility. Mazda MX-5 Miata? You see around yourself; mirrors and rear view window work. Hummer H3? Good luck; your blind spots are huge and your car moves like a boat. I've driven smaller SUVs... less than a block; I hated it, it was wrong and I wasn't going to "get used to it." I enjoy driving sporty little cars; but I enjoy two-wheeled vehicles more.

rray

The Kawasaki 250 you're thinking about is a great choice. It is priced right, has enough power, and gets more than reasonable gas mileage.

I've been riding motorycles and bicycles for over 40 years. I got rid of my car four years ago. There are many similarities but as someone else mentioned on this thread, with the motorcycle you're in the traffic flow.

The motorcycle safety foundation riders course is the first place to begin. And yes...almost everything is more fun on two wheels.

Igo

BarracksSi

Don't get me wrong -- I agree that two wheels is more fun than four. I'm just not making it a priority when I just want to get somewhere.

Cars have things called "windshield wipers"....

Besides making sure that I had good wipers, I started using Rain-X, which made a huge difference in visibility. I put it on my wife's car during a recent cross-country trek and she loved it, too. On the bike in the rain, I'm fine as long as I can keep the rain off of my head, or else my scalp's sweat gets washed into my eyes and I can't see at all.

(can't fall off of a car )

Not as agile, I suppose, as it takes a beast of a car to keep up with a motorcycle. But if the tail hangs out or I get into a spin (I haven't spun my Honda yet, even though it started to oversteer; maybe I don't try hard enough ), the consequences are a lot less severe than dropping a bike.

What I don't like about parking an automatic is when I've got the a/c on and the compressor disengages while I'm trying to brake lightly and just creep forward. The engine is already idling with a little extra throttle just to turn the compressor (I've heard the a/c can take about 15 hp), and when it releases, it makes the car lurch forward. Anywhere else, that's no problem, but when there's less than a few feet of clearance, I feel like it's gonna hit something.

"More enjoyable", yup. "Better"? Eh, it depends; a pickup is too big for me, I've outlined the reasons I won't own a motorcycle, but a small hatchback has been my motor vehicle choice for over twenty years.

Now that I'm married, I'll definitely never own a motorcycle -- the boss won't allow it. But maybe I can get my midlife crisis sporty car since her sedan could fill the practical role.

I'm car-light, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy my car.

bluefoxicy

My seat tube bottle is hung way high; the bolts are both midway up the post, so I use it to house a gatorade bottle rather than a Podium Chill.

scroca

I am speechless.

Andy_K 

After reading this post, I know I'd feel much safer with you on a bike instead of in a car.

KD5NRH

Spit.