Anyone interested in electronic shifting?
07-28-11, 01:45 PM
#76
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or how about how they handle interference from the hodge-podge of lighting systems that commuters use.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-28-11, 01:45 PM
#77
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It adds unnecessary complexity, batteries. You mus remember to charge them... Maybe I would like it, but only if:
1) It costs as lower level shifters
2) It would be universal: by simply changing some jumper or switch you could mount on bicycle with 6,7,8,9,10,11 and every maker rear cogs.
When first may come true sometime in the future, i bet no from big 3 (shim, campa, sram) will make second. Ironically second requirement shoul be quite simple to make - simple preprogram couple cable pull lenghts to the stepper motor, but in that case it would ruin that "must upgrade all gruppo" mantra.
1) It costs as lower level shifters
2) It would be universal: by simply changing some jumper or switch you could mount on bicycle with 6,7,8,9,10,11 and every maker rear cogs.
When first may come true sometime in the future, i bet no from big 3 (shim, campa, sram) will make second. Ironically second requirement shoul be quite simple to make - simple preprogram couple cable pull lenghts to the stepper motor, but in that case it would ruin that "must upgrade all gruppo" mantra.
07-28-11, 01:47 PM
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The purist in me would want to design a strictly mechanical system like that just for the engineering challenge.
07-28-11, 01:48 PM
#79
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-28-11, 02:23 PM
#80
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It speaks to the reliability aspects of this. Safe to say that the flat earth society in cycling at all levels no longer has to fret over this. One of the big reasons that DI2 took awhile was the allegiance to tradition and the conservatism of much of cycling in general. You may have noticed that many of the big sponsors are bike manufacturers because (wait for it....) this helps sell bikes and for Shimano dominating TdF jerseys and podium means that they will sell a lot more of it when Ultegra is available shortly. Then Shimano gets volume to drive pricing down so you can use this on your commuter. Sora DI2.
J.
07-28-11, 02:25 PM
#81
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07-28-11, 03:26 PM
#82
GATC
It speaks to the reliability aspects of this. Safe to say that the flat earth society in cycling at all levels no longer has to fret over this. One of the big reasons that DI2 took awhile was the allegiance to tradition and the conservatism of much of cycling in general.
07-28-11, 03:42 PM
#84
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I don't ride it, but work on it enough. So far, all issues have been user-based, not the fault of the equipment. I'm Di2 certified, shop is, too -- extra bonus is that if there ever is a warranty issue with a bad part, Shimano will overnight a replacement part at their expense...
Counterpoint: when assembling the first Di2 bike to pass through my stand, I was standing there, holding a bunch of wiring spaghetti at the bb, saying, "You gotta be kidding me: a bicycle with a wiring harness...?!?"
07-28-11, 03:50 PM
#85
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2006 Trek SU100, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, 2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
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07-28-11, 04:03 PM
#86
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Boss rides Di2 in all weather along Seacoast NH, with plenty of salt and assorted other nastiness on the road... much of which ends up on his bike. Battery on a Trek Madone is relocated under the BB, so it is plenty exposed. No issues, so far. Same thing on his previous bike, which we swapped over to Di2. He's not going back to mechanical.
Keeping in mind I did think the DI2 I fiddled with the other day was an amazing feat.
07-28-11, 04:26 PM
#87
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Don't have it, interested, but price point and added complexity of components currently aren't worth it.
Here's what would convert it from "cool toy" to "essential" for me:
1) condense the shifter into one up/down shift control, which automatically chooses which chainring/cog combination is appropriate given my "up" or "down" shift command (ie: program the computer to know exactly how to order every single one of the 21 gears on my bike; excluding the extreme's where the chain angle is too high of course)
2) let me put 2 of these shifters on my bike; one on the handlebars, one on the bar ends. I love cruising on the bar ends, but moving my hands down the the bars is a pain.
If they do this, at a reasonable price point, I would buy it in an instant. I spend so much time in gear 2-7 when I could probably move up to 3-4, but avoid doing that because I know there's a hill coming soon and I'll just have to switch from 3 to 2 again on the chainring.
Here's what would convert it from "cool toy" to "essential" for me:
1) condense the shifter into one up/down shift control, which automatically chooses which chainring/cog combination is appropriate given my "up" or "down" shift command (ie: program the computer to know exactly how to order every single one of the 21 gears on my bike; excluding the extreme's where the chain angle is too high of course)
2) let me put 2 of these shifters on my bike; one on the handlebars, one on the bar ends. I love cruising on the bar ends, but moving my hands down the the bars is a pain.
If they do this, at a reasonable price point, I would buy it in an instant. I spend so much time in gear 2-7 when I could probably move up to 3-4, but avoid doing that because I know there's a hill coming soon and I'll just have to switch from 3 to 2 again on the chainring.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...in-bike-27855/
07-28-11, 05:27 PM
#89
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Just called the LBS... they aren't manufacturing bikes with this group yet. Right now they are only custom build-ups.
I'm dying to try this out.
I'm dying to try this out.
07-28-11, 05:49 PM
#90
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I'll elaborate a little more on my comment.. 3 main reasons i'm not interested.
a: I don't have tons of disposable income
b: I don't race, so I don't care about how fast my bike's shifting
c: I don't want to think about charging my bike's battery, I already forget my rechargeable headlight sometimes
a few other reasons, I don't mind adjusting my derailleur.. I've had my roadie for quite a few months now and i've only had to adjust it once, that's not very time consuming. Electronics on your bike is just another thing that can break that you have to pay someone to fix. (broken cable, I could do myself)
a: I don't have tons of disposable income
b: I don't race, so I don't care about how fast my bike's shifting
c: I don't want to think about charging my bike's battery, I already forget my rechargeable headlight sometimes
a few other reasons, I don't mind adjusting my derailleur.. I've had my roadie for quite a few months now and i've only had to adjust it once, that's not very time consuming. Electronics on your bike is just another thing that can break that you have to pay someone to fix. (broken cable, I could do myself)
07-28-11, 06:55 PM
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I'll elaborate a little more on my comment.. 3 main reasons i'm not interested.
a: I don't have tons of disposable income
b: I don't race, so I don't care about how fast my bike's shifting
c: I don't want to think about charging my bike's battery, I already forget my rechargeable headlight sometimes
a: I don't have tons of disposable income
b: I don't race, so I don't care about how fast my bike's shifting
c: I don't want to think about charging my bike's battery, I already forget my rechargeable headlight sometimes
I'l grant you point A. It's primo expensive.
07-29-11, 03:41 AM
#92
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Di2 currently doesn't make much sense for commuting (if it makes sense at all I guess.)
One of the things that I am concerned about is what it's going to be like this winter trying to hit the shift buttons with big thick gloves on. I can see that being a problem. I probably wouldn't commute in the winter the with the Di2 bike anyway (I use a cross bike with a rack and fenders for that) but I do plenty of non-commute riding in the winter, and this has me a bit concerned.
Not going to remove the Di2 though
One of the things that I am concerned about is what it's going to be like this winter trying to hit the shift buttons with big thick gloves on. I can see that being a problem. I probably wouldn't commute in the winter the with the Di2 bike anyway (I use a cross bike with a rack and fenders for that) but I do plenty of non-commute riding in the winter, and this has me a bit concerned.
Not going to remove the Di2 though
07-29-11, 05:38 AM
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It speaks to the reliability aspects of this. Safe to say that the flat earth society in cycling at all levels no longer has to fret over this. One of the big reasons that DI2 took awhile was the allegiance to tradition and the conservatism of much of cycling in general. You may have noticed that many of the big sponsors are bike manufacturers because (wait for it....) this helps sell bikes and for Shimano dominating TdF jerseys and podium means that they will sell a lot more of it when Ultegra is available shortly. Then Shimano gets volume to drive pricing down so you can use this on your commuter. Sora DI2.
J.
J.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-29-11, 05:39 AM
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oh pleeze...this is the lamest dodge I have seen yet. But since you cannot answer the question, hardly surprising.
Perhaps I should respond in kind and simply call you a shill? Oh wait, I'm not that lame.
Perhaps I should respond in kind and simply call you a shill? Oh wait, I'm not that lame.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-29-11, 05:42 AM
#95
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Boss rides Di2 in all weather along Seacoast NH, with plenty of salt and assorted other nastiness on the road... much of which ends up on his bike. Battery on a Trek Madone is relocated under the BB, so it is plenty exposed. No issues, so far. Same thing on his previous bike, which we swapped over to Di2. He's not going back to mechanical.
I don't ride it, but work on it enough. So far, all issues have been user-based, not the fault of the equipment. I'm Di2 certified, shop is, too -- extra bonus is that if there ever is a warranty issue with a bad part, Shimano will overnight a replacement part at their expense...
Counterpoint: when assembling the first Di2 bike to pass through my stand, I was standing there, holding a bunch of wiring spaghetti at the bb, saying, "You gotta be kidding me: a bicycle with a wiring harness...?!?"
I don't ride it, but work on it enough. So far, all issues have been user-based, not the fault of the equipment. I'm Di2 certified, shop is, too -- extra bonus is that if there ever is a warranty issue with a bad part, Shimano will overnight a replacement part at their expense...
Counterpoint: when assembling the first Di2 bike to pass through my stand, I was standing there, holding a bunch of wiring spaghetti at the bb, saying, "You gotta be kidding me: a bicycle with a wiring harness...?!?"
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-29-11, 06:07 AM
#96
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Sigh for the days (1976) when it was recognized what was useful/practical for a commuter bike and such bikes were readily available at almost any US LBS. A Raleigh Superbe delivered cost $135 equipped with DynoHub lighting, a foolproof easy shifting 3 speed, full fenders, Brooks B66 Saddle, sturdy rear rack, chainguard, etc. Even if priced in 2011 dollars it was many times the commuter bike value over any of the ersatz racing machines and whiz bang TDF stuff discussed in this thread.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-29-11 at 06:21 AM.
07-29-11, 06:22 AM
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Sigh for the days (1976) when it was recognized what was useful/practical for a commuter bike and such bikes were readily available at almost any US LBS. A Raleigh Superbe delivered cost $135 equipped with DynoHub lighting, a foolproof easy shifting 3 speed, full fenders, Brooks B66 Saddle, sturdy rear rack, chainguard, etc. Even if priced in 2011 dollars it was many times the commuter bike value over any of the ersatz racing machines and whiz band TDF stuff discussed in this thread.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-29-11, 06:26 AM
#98
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Flash forward to the Superbe of today...which cost me around $1000 two years ago. It has a dynohub - but I had to buy my own lights, 8 speed IGH, fenders - but not full coverage, Brooks B68 - but I swapped it for a B17, no rear rack - I had to put on my own, chainguard - minimal coverage like the fenders. The newer model sports disc brakes, but that may or may not have value to some.
07-29-11, 07:19 AM
#99
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DI2=reliable. Price will drop fast with volume. Or doesn't reliability and price matter to you for a commuter bike? Does for me.
J.
07-29-11, 08:24 AM
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