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-   -   are you a law abiding citizen? (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/758957-you-law-abiding-citizen.html)

TurbineBlade 08-14-11 10:55 AM


We have a saying out west that goes something like 'you don't tear down a fence without knowing why it was there in the first place.' Same applies to laws and rules for travelers on streets. Sure there are lots of laws that don't apply to cyclists but there are plenty that do. Stopping at traffic control devices is one of the rules that does apply to cyclists. Especially oblivious cyclists who don't even look before they blow stoplights and signs in front of cyclists with the right of way on the through street, or ride on the wrong side of the road while making a left hand turn right into the path of a cyclist attempting to turn onto the street that the idiot was on, or go around a stopped cyclists making a left hand turn - with a hand signal out - right into the path of a car that the stopped cyclists was waiting for. All of these have happen to me just recently because someone decided 'I break laws'.
That could be the worst saying I've ever heard.

I also don't see your point. Even though I break laws, I'm not responsible for other stupid cyclists or drivers who who break different laws than I do, or who break the same ones but to a greater extent than I do. There is nothing "unsafe" about perfoming the Idaho stop and it make no sense for cyclists to wait at empty intersections during off-hours when absolutely no one is out there and the cyclist can see in all directions -- cyclists can see and hear much better than drivers, and even the morons who just fly through lights or signs without breaking stride are really endangering their own hides.....unlike what happens when motorists do the same thing. It makes no sense to apply some of the same laws (*some, not all) to both when the playing field isn't even.

I also have cyclists who fly around me and pass dangerously, just like you describe. That's not my problem and I'm not their guardian.

cyccommute 08-15-11 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by TurbineBlade (Post 13081209)
That could be the worst saying I've ever heard.

I also don't see your point. Even though I break laws, I'm not responsible for other stupid cyclists or drivers who who break different laws than I do, or who break the same ones but to a greater extent than I do. There is nothing "unsafe" about perfoming the Idaho stop and it make no sense for cyclists to wait at empty intersections during off-hours when absolutely no one is out there and the cyclist can see in all directions -- cyclists can see and hear much better than drivers, and even the morons who just fly through lights or signs without breaking stride are really endangering their own hides.....unlike what happens when motorists do the same thing. It makes no sense to apply some of the same laws (*some, not all) to both when the playing field isn't even.

I also have cyclists who fly around me and pass dangerously, just like you describe. That's not my problem and I'm not their guardian.

The saying is a very valid and very good one. If you are out on a ranch and you come across a fence you don't just tear it down without finding out why it was there in the first place. It might be there to keep sick cattle from mixing with healthy cattle. It might be there to preserve pasture land for later in the season or it might be there to keep a pasture from being over grazed. It might even be there to keep the bull from breeding with cows that you don't want him to breed with. It might be there to keep the cows out of the picnic grounds. The need for the fence are endless.

Same applies to laws.

I gave you 3 examples of what's wrong with the 'Idaho stop' when it's used improperly and, yes, they did endanger my hide. Here's more detail and you can decide whose hide was on the line. I have had many people do the 'Idaho stop'...really just a case of "I don't want to stop"...across my line of travel on a bicycle where I had the right of way. I had to stop to avoid hitting them. In another instance, I was moving along at 20+ mph next to a line of moving cars while making a right hand turn onto a street when the clown in the white Lance wannabe pro kit decided that he couldn't be inconvenienced by actually stopping for the stop sign and decided to turn left across my path and ride the wrong way down the road I was on just as I was starting around the corner. Again, I had to stop for him... in a hurry! Not a lot of fun when you are already committed to the corner and, without years of bicycle handling skills honed by mountain biking, it could have been my hide scraped off on the pavement.

Another instance occurred at an stop sign in my neighborhood. My wife and I were being followed by another cyclist when we approached a stop sign on a busy street. I stopped (I do trackstand stopsigns but my momentum is zero). I had signaled my left turn and had waited for a car to pass. As I pulled out behind the car to make the left, the bozo behind me came roaring up on my left side to blow the sign and had to turn with me to avoid collision. Had he noticed that I had stopped for a reason? No. Had he even don't the 'Idaho stop' correctly? No. He guess he just thought that I was stopped for giggles and that he had the right of way because he was moving and I wasn't. Had he not turned with me, it would have been my hide that he was endangering.

I tend to shake my head at idiots who blow signs and lights. However when they start to endanger me, I get right well pissed off!


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