What are the advantages of wider tires for commuting?
 

I am starting to look at commuting bikes for a new commute that will be 15 miles each way, all on pavement/concrete. I want to have decent comfort (e.g., not a huge drop from saddle to bars), but I want to go as fast as practicable. I will also be carrying very little (hopefully), although the ability to carry a laptop and some other stuff once in a while might be nice.

It seems that the dedicated commuter-type bikes either come with wider tires (often in the 28-32 range) or have the capability to add wider tires. I understand that wider tires are better off road, but do they really improve the ride on pavement enough to warrant the fact that they are slower?

Racers handle the worst of conditions (rain, bad pavement, cobblestones, etc.) on 23-25 mm tires, so why can't commuters?

I am not trying to be a troll, but I am trying to figure out whether this is an important factor in bike shopping.

Top contenders so far:
Salsa Casseroll
Surly Crosscheck
Jamis Bosanova

Thanks for any insight!

There are variables that influence this. Not all pavement is equal, so the term "pavement/concrete" can mean anything from pristine suburban asphalt to urban rubble.

Here's my take for an "average" paved urban commute (i.e. less than perfect paved riding)

1. rolling resistance of a 25mm tire is not remarkably lower than a 32 or 40mm tire. I'm too lazy to look up the studies right now, but info is out there
2. bigger tires handle better. A larger, rounder profile gives more stability and better grip in the corners
3. larger air volume provides better comfort for a given pressure. A 32mm tire with 90 PSI is more comfortable than a similar 23-25mm model at 90 psi.
4. Larger tires are not as susceptible to imperfections such as cracks, seams and ridges in the pavement, reducing the need to "pick a line"

I've commuted in urban and suburban environments ranging from really good to pretty bad road quality/conditions.
When I've been blessed with really nice road quality, I've found that I prefer narrower tires.
When the pavement is not as pretty, I like bigger tires.

Either way, I ride about the same speed- the bigger tires do not make a noticeable difference on my door-to door time, and I tend to ride in the same cruising gear (70-80 inches) regardless of what size tires I have.

Typically, cushioning is the biggest advantage to using wider tires. On road, this is mostly an advantage on rough pavement, though wider tires also handle better in the sandy conditions that are typically found on spring roads in snowy places. If you don't have a lot of sand and potholes on your roads, then the advantages are likely reduced.

Racing and commuting are different activities. Yes, narrow tires can handle adverse conditions, but is it ideal for them, or is it a question of - given the performance tradeoffs, (including required changes to bike design to handle wider tires) - that narrow tires are still better for shaving seconds off your time? Seconds don't matter on a commute...getting to the next red light a hair faster will not make your trip to work faster or more enjoyable.

Well. I'm going to load this with weasel-words in the hopes of not fanning any flames!
Wider tires can be run at lower pressures for a given load. So they feel more comfortable to some people in everyday riding over typical pavement. Wider tires may also be less vulnerable to getting caught in pavement cracks or train tracks and causing a wreck. Wider tires have more models of tough, bomb-proof tires available - probably because there is less concern with weight in tires wider than 25, and there's just more physical room to put belts and stuff in a bigger tire carcass.
Opinions vary widely as to whether narrow tires are actually faster, but even if they are, many commuters seem willing to give up a little speed for extra comfort.
Still, everyone has their own commuting environment and preferences. Some people commute happily on skinny-tire road bikes.

A lot of hybrid/comfort/commuter bikes have wider tires and an upright posture to make them comfortable for short, casual rides. Sounds like a road bike might suit your needs better.

EDIT- Original post updated with some more details and a few possible bikes.

My alternative is to commute with my road bike, a Cannondale Six13 or a nice old steel mountain bike.

If the old MTB is full rigid, you could set it up with a set of 1.5-2.0" slicks, alternate bar of your choice, rear rack (and fenders if there's rain in your forecast), and you'd have a great commuter on the cheap. I've done this in the past, and have installed a road cluster to get closer gearing.

The bikes you posted are all excellent choices. I'd say "do up" the MTB and ride it while you are assessing your options.

You can split hairs forever answering this question but in general wider tires provide better traction on a wider range of surfaces, softer ride, improved stability. They offer greater protection to the rim from potholes, curbs and large object strikes. I also have found them to be slightly less vulnerable to tire killing damage from road debris which is probably due to their usually heavier construction.
As with all things bicycle it is all an art on compromise and just how wide/narrow and all the other details of tire/wheel selection depends on many use factors and your personal preference.

Yeah, I like old mountain bikes for round town bikes. They're bulletproof and make for good ride. You could ever throw on some 26 x 1.25s to boost up speed a little if the commute isn't really rough. As with many, you will probably end up with more than one bike anyway (e.g. I have "winter" and "summer" bikes, due to weather conditions).

The nice old MTB would work great, with some slick/road type tires!

In fact I think that would be outstanding!

+1
Old Mountain bikes make great commuters. I agree, put slicks (if your ride allows it), bar ends & a rack & you're good to go for a long time.

A commuter bike usually can handle 28-35 mm tires and have room for fenders, while a real road bike does not have that much space.

This is probably the biggest factor, in my opinion.

My "real road bike" runs a 23 in front and a 25 in back (both Conti Gatorskins). My commuter bike (a Cross-Check) runs Schwalbe Marathon 28s (HS 420); permanent attachments include SKS fenders, a rear rack, and a U-lock. (And I haul and tow all kinds of bulky & heavy stuff with that bike.) I ride a moderately hilly "fitness loop" that, on average, takes me 82 minutes to complete on my real road bike. That loop takes me, again on average, 86 minutes to complete on my commuter bike. If I've calculated correctly, my average speed on that ride drops by 4.6% when I'm on the commuter. (I'm -- ahem -- not telling you what those speeds are. :o) Enough to lose races, to be sure, but not enough to make any more than the tiniest noticeable effect on my enjoyment of the ride.

Now, there's been plenty of discussion on this forum of the merits of the tires in the Marathon line. I like them for a lot of reasons, but mainly because they've never flatted on me. Not once in two years of daily commuting, year-round, in all conditions, on the nasty streets of Cambridge/Boston. And after those two years, they look barely worn. When my wife recently announced she intended to take up bike commuting, the first thing I did (after howling "SUCCESS!!!" from the rooftop) was to fit out her bike with Marathons.

Count me, then, with the "retro-grouches": I think that the advantages of skinnies are, at times, overstated.

Thanks for the tips. I figured I would need a real road/commuter bike to maintain good speed over a 15-mile commute (each way), but I have to say that riding my MTB is an interesting idea.

It's a 1997 Marin Eldridge Grade hardtail that was just tuned up and is in great shape. It only weighs about 26.5 pounds, which isn't much heavier than some of the drop-bar commuting bikes (the Bosanova weighs 27 lbs!). If I switch to a rigid fork, I imagine I could save another pound or so. With bar ends, I can get a pretty decent stretch as well (for aero effect and comfort).

Very interesting idea!

A little over 3 years ago, I bought a set of Schwalbe Marathon 700 X32 tires. They were very slow. I have heard that Schwalbe has improved the rolling resistance of the Marathon's since then. Is that true? When my Continental 700 X 28 wore out and I did not have the cash to replace them, I installed the Marathon's for a second time. They are still slow, but bomproof.

I have put about 2,000 or so flat-free miles on my 32c Marathon Supremes. The tires roll very well.

ROJA - that's a very nice mountain bike, and a perfect candidate for a fredly conversion ;)
No, seriously. A rigid fork, bar ends, and slicks and you'd be in business. Then you can suss out your needs for a rear rack and/or fenders.

Just wanted to add my experience. I started out commuting on 27x1.25, lower pressure tires. I blew out tubes a few times because I'd over-inflate them (I like higher PSI). Also got several pinch flats. I later inherited a set of 700c wheels with 20mm tires. Threw those on my commuter and LOVED IT! Yeah, on bumpy pavement the bumps are sharper - but I prefer the sharper bump to the squishy bouncy-bump of the lower PSI tires. Overall I felt much quicker with the thin tires, but I think a lot of that has to do with being able to inflate them to 100+ PSI. I'm actually about to buy a new set of tires and will probably go for 25s.

IMO, 20mm >>>> 1.25". I don't feel like my pedaling energy is being sucked up by the tires, and I've had far fewer flats (knock on wood). Though I think it's probably an anomaly that I've had fewer flats with such thin tires...

There it is.
There are wider tires that permit higher pressures - up around 90-100 - which is on par with "commutable" 23-25's. This is nice when the nature of the commute (roads) benefits from a wider tire (i.e. when 23's aren't practical)

Um, I'll probably get flamed (and I haven't actually seen a race in quite some time), but racers are competing on a closed course or have police ******* to get traffic out of their way. And racers also (I'm thinking TdF here) have a support vehicle following them that can fix any mechanical issue on the fly or even exchange bikes if necessary. Commuters, sadly, share neither of these luxuries.

For me (and many others) 28 mm tires seem to be the sweet spot between many compromises like speed, comfort, and ease of maintenance. When it comes to speed, the main advantage for narrower 23 mm tire is wind resistance. AFAIK, the front wheel is around 10% of the total wind resistance, so reducing the frontal area from 28 X "tire height" to 23 X "tire height" can deliver a small, but real difference when riding at a good pace. But for many commuters this will only amount to shave some seconds of their trip. Usually 23 mm tires also have lower weight and lower rolling resistance than 28 mm tires, but again, for many commuters this advantage will be marginal.

The advantage for 28 mm tires are several; they are just that more plush to ride and are easily the cheapest and most effective comfort upgrade that one can make, and they are still light and flexible enough to feel fast. They also provide much better protection against "snake bite" punctures, and therefore works much better with loaded bikes and non-ballerina weight riders. Good 28 mm tires like Conti Gatorskins or GP4S, also work over a wide range of pressure; that means that I don't have to pump the tires so often. Any theoretical speed advantage with 23 mm tires will be dwarfed by the time lost on pumping tires for my short commute.



Of course you can commute on 23 mm tires or even 19 mm. I know many that do. It is just a question of which factors you want to optimize. But racing and commuting are different things.
Many Pro riders, including several winners of the Paris-Roubaix cobblestone classic, uses 27 mm (tubular) tires in the spring classics like "PR" and "Ronde Van Vlaanderen". They don't do it for comfort, but because wider tires gives much better protection against the tire bottoming out when hitting a cobblestone (sett) causing punctures or broken rims.
They also have a support car riding behind them with a mechanic and spare wheels, a luxury few bicycle commuters have, so commuters tend to prioritize puncture resistance more. :)

Every tire choice is a compromise. I prioritize comfort, puncture resistance and load capability higher than pure speed, but still like that "fast" feeling that means I won't ride +35 mm tires. (except my spike tires, and I don't like their sluggish feeling at all).

It looks like the bikes that you consider all can take +28 mm tires and full fenders at the same time, so why not try out some good 28 mm tires first. I am sure that you won't feel that they hold you back.

--
Regards

A cushier ride and more traction are the biggest advantages. I prefer tires in the 28-32mm range for commuting and utility riding.

I agree that using this bike would be great for commuting. I commute with a similar bike on my 27 mile round-trip commute. My tires are 26x1.5 Vittoria Randonneur Pro tires, which seem to have a good balance between ride quality and performance. I've also pulled out multiple goathead thorns, and none of them have flatted the tires.

I would take the minor speed penalty of a wider tire. The time i spend NOT repairing flats makes up for my time easily.

Guys, thanks for all the feedback so far.

How can I figure out how narrow a tire will fit on my 26" Mavic wheels on the Marin?