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I can't decide on a frame
I've kind of been all over in what I've looked (gunnar, surly, salsa, soma) but in general I'm focused on a steel frame road bike that can be a fast commuter and maybe handle light touring duty but that's not a priority. It will be used for mostly commuting, but I'll also use it for long (100mi) road trips in the mountain passes of CO so I don't want an overly heavy or flexy bike.
I had more or less settled on a Soma ES but then I looked at the double cross. The differences in all these bikes (surly, salsa and gunnar too) are very subtle. The DC has a disc brake option which has merit, but because I want more of a road bike that can carry a load for commuting rather than a commuter that can be a road bike I'm mostly interested in regular caliper or canti brakes. Prices are similar, weights are similar, geometries are similar, colors are not my first choice on any but the ES and disc DC are okay. In the absence of compelling information I'll probably just get the ES but I'm wondering if there is anything I'm overlooking or a reason to help me make the decision. It doesn't help that I don't have much money and a wrong decision will be more painful. It's also my first attempt to build my own bike. I've thought about a complete bike but don't like the options on the ones I've looked at and I have a handful of parts already as a start. Thanks for any possible insight or just tell me to htfu and make a decision already. |
Well, likely you're trapped trying to make the perfect decision with too many similar choices. You've clearly narrowed it down to the frames that will serve your purpose so just pick the one you like the most, even if it's just for the color.
Personally, I built up a Cross Check frame and I love it. It's a good, versatile frame. I use it for commuting and light touring. |
Originally Posted by bikerjp
(Post 13272445)
It doesn't help that I don't have much money and a wrong decision will be more painful. It's also my first attempt to build my own bike. I've thought about a complete bike but don't like the options on the ones I've looked at and I have a handful of parts already as a start. Thanks for any possible insight or just tell me to htfu and make a decision already. As I said once before, building a bike from scratch is not a cost effective way to get a good bike. I believe a better bet is to buy a complete new bike and then, if it is not exactly what you want, modify it by adding or changing out components as time and budget allow. This should be substantially less expensive than building your own and it has the advantage of allowing you to size the frame properly since this has been one of your big concerns (assuming you don't buy online, of course). Also, if you find you really don't like the bike, you can always sell it. A better bet based on my experience is to buy a used bike. This is way cheaper than buying new and a little effort and patience is likely to get you what is functionally as good as anything you can build. Again, if you are not perfectly satisfied with the bike as is, you can modify it. This is almost as much fun as building new. As far as asking others to help you select a particular frame, I think this is a personal decision that only you can make. I go with the suggestion to select the one with the color you like best. I can't imagine that, for the candidates you have selected, anyone would have information or insight that would be useful. |
Originally Posted by bikerjp
(Post 13272445)
I've kind of been all over in what I've looked (gunnar, surly, salsa, soma) but in general I'm focused on a steel frame road bike that can be a fast commuter and maybe handle light touring duty but that's not a priority. It will be used for mostly commuting, but I'll also use it for long (100mi) road trips in the mountain passes of CO so I don't want an overly heavy or flexy bike.
I had more or less settled on a Soma ES but then I looked at the double cross. The differences in all these bikes (surly, salsa and gunnar too) are very subtle. The DC has a disc brake option which has merit, but because I want more of a road bike that can carry a load for commuting rather than a commuter that can be a road bike I'm mostly interested in regular caliper or canti brakes. Prices are similar, weights are similar, geometries are similar, colors are not my first choice on any but the ES and disc DC are okay. In the absence of compelling information I'll probably just get the ES but I'm wondering if there is anything I'm overlooking or a reason to help me make the decision. It doesn't help that I don't have much money and a wrong decision will be more painful. It's also my first attempt to build my own bike. I've thought about a complete bike but don't like the options on the ones I've looked at and I have a handful of parts already as a start. Thanks for any possible insight or just tell me to htfu and make a decision already. First of all, 100 miles is really NOT considered as a tour. It's typically called a "century" by most experienced road bikers. Road bikers do centuries all the time. There's all types of touring. However, most touring requires riders to sleep at some place other than home. Centuries don't require that riders spend the night away from home. Therefore, you won't be carrying cooking utensiles, tents, blankets, or a change of clothes. I think you should concentrate on a bike with the most versatility since I really do believe that deep down inside, you're really a touring cyclist at heart. Eventually, you're most probably going to venture further out and perhaps to credit card touring, if nothing else. In that case, I think it would be a mistake to purchase any other frame than a Surly LHT. When you purchase the Surly LHT from Universal Cycles, you're getting both the fork and the frame as a frameset for $470. Trust me, you will be happy with the LHT doing both centuries and credit card touring. Many world tourers swear by the LHT! Good Luck! :thumb: - Slim :) PS. Check out the Surly LHT here at Universal Cycles: www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=35739&category=2595/ |
For me it was the salsa casserole comfort was what I was looking for but versatility has been a bonus. I have two sets of wheels and tires for it one with 23mm road tires and the other with 35mm cross tires. Commuting, touring, and light duty gravel travel I have yet to find anything this bike cannot do for me.
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Originally Posted by DrJim
(Post 13272679)
I'm going to toss my two cents in one more time (for those who have not followed bikerjp's trials and tribulations).
As I said once before, building a bike from scratch is not a cost effective way to get a good bike. I believe a better bet is to buy a complete new bike and then, if it is not exactly what you want, modify it by adding or changing out components as time and budget allow. This should be substantially less expensive than building your own and it has the advantage of allowing you to size the frame properly since this has been one of your big concerns (assuming you don't buy online, of course). Also, if you find you really don't like the bike, you can always sell it. A better bet based on my experience is to buy a used bike. This is way cheaper than buying new and a little effort and patience is likely to get you what is functionally as good as anything you can build. Again, if you are not perfectly satisfied with the bike as is, you can modify it. This is almost as much fun as building new. I'm the kind of person who would rather spend a bit more on something that is the better option rather than spend less and then end up not happy or pouring additional money into it. Maybe I'm way off on my estimate, but I think I can build an ES or similar bike up for about $1400 which is what I'd pay for a Vaya or cross check after upgrading. That is taking into consideration the parts I already have (handle bar, stem, seat, seat post, wheels, cassette, chain, pedals). Just need brakes and the rest of the drive train, head set and cables, etc. Also, I just want to build one for the fun and experience.
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 13272761)
Hey there BikerJP!
First of all, 100 miles is really NOT considered as a tour. It's typically called a "century" by most experienced road bikers. Road bikers do centuries all the time. There's all types of touring. However, most touring requires riders to sleep at some place other than home. Centuries don't require that riders spend the night away from home. Therefore, you won't be carrying cooking utensiles, tents, blankets, or a change of clothes. I think you should concentrate on a bike with the most versatility since I really do believe that deep down inside, you're really a touring cyclist at heart. Eventually, you're most probably going to venture further out and perhaps to credit card touring, if nothing else. In that case, I think it would be a mistake to purchase any other frame than a Surly LHT. When you purchase the Surly LHT from Universal Cycles, you're getting both the fork and the frame as a frameset for $470. Trust me, you will be happy with the LHT doing both centuries and credit card touring. Many world tourers swear by the LHT! Good Luck! :thumb: - Slim :) |
These are complete builds, but maybe something to consider. You could swap out OEM for what you already have and sell the OEM to recoup some of the costs.
Raleigh Steel Road line, Kona ***** Tonk... |
The Soma DC has odd geometry. Based on my fit preferences, I would never buy one.
The ES will be a fine bike, as are some of the others you've mentioned. Were it me, I'd probably just watch ebay and buy the first really good deal if you don't have your heart set on one particular frame. |
Originally Posted by bikerjp
(Post 13272970)
Thanks for all the advice. I agree that a complete bike or used would be the best way to go. I've been looking. Thought about a Salsa Vaya but the size was 56 and I probably need at least a 58. Might have been able to make it work but wasn't convinced and then it sold. That lbs was going out of business so not sure where to find Salsa bikes now although I think most lbs can order them. Some shops around carry Surly and I've looked at those too. I can get a cross check for $1000 but I really don't like any of the components so upgrading all that seems more expensive than just building up how I want. I keep checking CL around here but not seeing much.
I'm the kind of person who would rather spend a bit more on something that is the better option rather than spend less and then end up not happy or pouring additional money into it. Maybe I'm way off on my estimate, but I think I can build an ES or similar bike up for about $1400 which is what I'd pay for a Vaya or cross check after upgrading. That is taking into consideration the parts I already have (handle bar, stem, seat, seat post, wheels, cassette, chain, pedals). Just need brakes and the rest of the drive train, head set and cables, etc. Also, I just want to build one for the fun and experience. I probably wasn't clear about my intended use. I know 100 mi isn't touring, that is just one of the things I plan to do with the bike. The comment about touring was just that I might also do some overnights but it's not a focus - just something in the back of my mind. Mainly the bike will be my commuter and century bike. I've thought about and LHT but unless I plan to do some serious touring I think it's overkill and in the event I do start touring I'll probably look into a bike specifically for that but hoping whatever I build up will at least handle the credit card type touring. My brother lives a couple mountain passes away and I've thought of packing up and heading over his way for a few days. Better than credit card since I can mooch :) I live near San Francisco. I'm always biking to the city. I'll tell ya...There are so many riders LHT commuting, it'll make your head spin. Anyways, all I know is that I've never ever heard of an LHT owner who had any complaints at all. One day, I'm going to add it to my collection, for sure! Good Luck in your quest -Slim :) |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 13273355)
Hey there BikerJP!
I live near San Francisco. I'm always biking to the city. I'll tell ya...There are so many LHT commuting, it'll make your head spin. LHT's are great on hills, they're both fast, and nimble. That's why they're so popular in San Francisco. Anyways, all I know is that I've never ever heard of an LHT owner who had any complaints at all. One day, I'm going to add it to my collection, for sure! Good Luck in your quest -Slim :) |
I would highly recommend building your bike. It is a very rewarding experience and you'll learn a lot. You can build on a budget if you watch for deals. It might be a little cheaper to let someone else build it...but go for it. :thumb:
I built a Vaya last winter. Awesome frame and ride. Highly recommend |
I agree with Terry66.
Price isn't the only important variable to optimize on. There's also the satisfaction of building your own bike. Picking every last component. The mistakes you make and what you learn from them. The list goes on. I highly recommend building your own bike. |
Build it. You wont regret it.
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what size bike frame fits you best ?, size and length , of top tube ..
NB: if you go to a proper bike shop, they will help you sort it all out . What brands are handled by your local shops? Trek PDX is a decent disc brake, 622 35 tire flat bar bike |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 13275577)
What do you mean..."From what I understand about LHT qualities"?
Just exactly what do you know, Sir? What innate qualities do you attribute to the LHT that it so rightfully deserves? I truly would like to know.... I thank you in advance. - Slim :) "People understand and appreciate the LHT’s dependability and everyday riding comfort, whether they’re cruising to the store or lost in the middle of nowhere. Why the Trucker? Simple. A touring bike’s job is to go the distance and then some while carrying you and your gear, all in relative comfort. The Long Haul Trucker was designed in all aspects to do exactly that. Its low bottom bracket and long chainstays provide comfort and stability. We gave it ample tire clearance for larger tires (larger tires soak up a lot of road static) with room for fenders too. The frame’s tubing is thicker-walled and larger-diameter than standard road and sport-touring frames, and this pre-tunes it for the weight of cargo. And it’s got all the braze-ons, from rack mounts to water bottle cage bosses to spare spoke holders." All of this is of course a matter of definition and interpretation. If you believe that the LHT is "fast and nimble" then, for you, it is. But it seems to me that the basic design is not aimed at "fast and nimble". As to why LHT's are popular in San Francisco, I don't know. I suspect though that there is a certain amount of faddish follow-the-herd response to marketing. And, of course, the reviews have been good. I seriously doubt that the typical LHT buyer in San Francisco is thinking "fast and nimble" as a primary objective. If he were, he would choose something else. In regard to your recommendation of an LHT for Bikerjp, it seems to me that he is more interested in what is generally described as a sports-touring bike. His statements of desired objectives and qualities and the frames that he has listed as candidates all tend toward that type of bike. He alone can make his decision but it appears to me that he is not interested in a full up touring bike. |
I love my caad9. What I really want is a relaxed caad9 with braze-ons and in steel.
Thanks for the feedback. Baring any future developments, I'm getting a Soma ES, building it up with Sram Apex except for a Rival crank and long reach brakes tbd. I'll be using old parts from the caad for most everything else. My wheels are crap, but will suffice for now. /thread |
my opinion:
Primarly as a commuter, I think the sport-touring, cyclocross or randonneur frame styles are best. A bike like the LHT is for long long rides in the saddle, and it's designed to be flexy and forgiving, which compromises the responsiveness. Racing bikes, like a Soma Smoothie, can get you there fast, but won't have clearance for fenders or wider tires (or braze-ons), and will be a harsher ride. The choices you have seem to be able to handle all criteria except disc brakes, and you may not be able to fit 35mm tires with fenders on a Soma, so take a look at the geometry. |
Originally Posted by bikerjp
(Post 13272970)
I can get a cross check for $1000 but I really don't like any of the components so upgrading all that seems more expensive than just building up how I want. I keep checking CL around here but not seeing much.
I'm the kind of person who would rather spend a bit more on something that is the better option rather than spend less and then end up not happy or pouring additional money into it. |
Originally Posted by LeeG
(Post 13276065)
$.02 echoing Dr. Jims suggestion to get a complete bike. If you're willing to spend a "bit more" spend it on a complete bike because any parts assembly is at a much higher cost. ie. get a $1400 bike if you think the $1000 bike doesn't have what you want. IMHO components aren't as important as the ride.
Since it is now clear that cost is not a driver and Bikerjp really wants to do a build, I say go for it. |
Originally Posted by DrJim
(Post 13275735)
What I believe is that the LHT is designed primarily as a general purpose utilitarian touring bike. It has a geometry and frame tubing designed for strength and long distance comfort. It also has braze-ons that allow attaching racks for carrying heavy loads. I have never ridden an LHT although I have seen a bare frame. I get my information from reading many reviews and comments including this from the Surly web site description:
"People understand and appreciate the LHT’s dependability and everyday riding comfort, whether they’re cruising to the store or lost in the middle of nowhere. Why the Trucker? Simple. A touring bike’s job is to go the distance and then some while carrying you and your gear, all in relative comfort. The Long Haul Trucker was designed in all aspects to do exactly that. Its low bottom bracket and long chainstays provide comfort and stability. We gave it ample tire clearance for larger tires (larger tires soak up a lot of road static) with room for fenders too. The frame’s tubing is thicker-walled and larger-diameter than standard road and sport-touring frames, and this pre-tunes it for the weight of cargo. And it’s got all the braze-ons, from rack mounts to water bottle cage bosses to spare spoke holders." All of this is of course a matter of definition and interpretation. If you believe that the LHT is "fast and nimble" then, for you, it is. But it seems to me that the basic design is not aimed at "fast and nimble". As to why LHT's are popular in San Francisco, I don't know. I suspect though that there is a certain amount of faddish follow-the-herd response to marketing. And, of course, the reviews have been good. I seriously doubt that the typical LHT buyer in San Francisco is thinking "fast and nimble" as a primary objective. If he were, he would choose something else. In regard to your recommendation of an LHT for Bikerjp, it seems to me that he is more interested in what is generally described as a sports-touring bike. His statements of desired objectives and qualities and the frames that he has listed as candidates all tend toward that type of bike. He alone can make his decision but it appears to me that he is not interested in a full up touring bike. My initial impression of the Surly LHT was derived primarily from observing its riders consistently overtaking other cyclists while climbing hills and speeding past others on the streets of San Francisco. It would appear that you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the Surly LHT. I certainly do appreciate your contribution. I stand corrected. Thanks Again! - Slim :) |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 13276172)
Hello there Dr. Jim,
My initial impression of the Surly LHT was derived primarily from observing its riders consistently overtaking other cyclists while climbing hills and speeding past others on the streets of San Francisco. It would appear that you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the Surly LHT. I certainly do appreciate your contribution. I stand corrected. Thanks Again! - Slim :) But thanks. |
Originally Posted by DrJim
(Post 13276271)
Wait!! No fair. This is not what I expected!!
But thanks. So you mean you were salivating, waiting with abated breath, and stalking perceived wounded prey...? I'm shocked! I guess my initial impression of you was wrong, as well! - Slim :) |
Get the ES! Then tell us how it goes, 'cause I am hoping to save up for one by next summer.
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Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 13276300)
Good Lord, Dr. Jim!
So you mean you were salivating, waiting with abated breath, and stalking perceived wounded prey...? I'm shocked! I guess my initial impression of you was wrong, as well! - Slim :) I do appreciate your response. Most people wouldn't admit "standing corrected". I was, and still am, ready for incoming from all the LHT fans out there. |
Originally Posted by RickB.
(Post 13275313)
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