GoreTex Active shell for commuting?
 

Anyone here who has real commuting experiences on this stuff? Not that it helps me anymore, I gave in last Friday.

We had several days of really bad weather during last week (lots of rain, windy). It was cold enough that I dug out my supposedly waterproof and breathable jacket & pants. Turns out they're neither anymore. Breathability was never so great to begin with, but now the waterproofing is going too - about 40 mins into my ride home, I could feel the cold water trickle through many spots.

I went to the local sports clothing specialist store and asked if they have anything worth trying, seeing that I've had GoreTex eons ago, and many cheaper breathable shells since then. None of them breathe enough for me. The salesperson claimed this "new" GoreTex Active breathes as well as the old Windstopper but is completely waterproof.

I tried them on (brand was Haglöfs, respectable enough), compared them to a couple of options... the good thing is, they're well cut for biking and very light. Lightness is mostly due to almost complete lack of any insulation lining, which is a good thing in my books. I can always wear whatever is needed beneath the shell. No zippered vents though. The saleslady said, "vents are supposedly not needed", with a hint of a dry smile.

We'll see about that. I paid dearly (almost 400e) after all possible discounts for the jacket & pants combo. This had better be good, or I'll take GoreTex up to their "Guaranteed" promise that to my surprise includes breathability.

--J

I have a gore-tex paclite shell. I also question their claim that pit vents aren't needed. They are very waterproof, but I don't believe they are as breathable as they claim. Unless it was an extreme downpour where water was coming in through the neck, my guess is you were experiencing your own sweat rather than incoming moisture.

I have heard that eVent breathes better than Goretex.

Please update us on your experiences! I've been considering getting a set...

This was an old jacket. I was sweaty, but I could tell the difference because the incoming water was cold and I felt it trickle in in weird places (like up in my back, close to shoulders). My guess is, the seams of the jacket are starting to give in. This jacket wasn't GoreTex, but one of the myriad of other breathable/waterproof layers available (DryMaxX, if I remember correctly).

Active is supposedly the best of the various GoreTex waterproof membranes right now in terms of breathability. I'll post my experiences in this thread. For the price I could easily buy two sets of a generic DryMaxX etc based shell, so I'm expecting a lot better performance from this. Significant increase in my average commuting speed wouldn't hurt either. :)

--J

I'll be curious to see what you think.
These sure ain't cheap!

If you don't like the goretex, you can always try to re-waterproof your old stuff. I used Nikwax on my rian jacket after water started seeping in through the shoulders. It's worked great so far & was pretty inexpensive.

That's an interesting thought. My Carradice rain cape (pro-route) seems to be letting in more water than it used to. I wonder if I can refresh it.

When it gets cold enough, I use a Goretex shell to ride in. And to hike in. And for kayaking, too. It's good stuff.

Indeed, I've got GORETEX in all its flavors for skiing/hiking and I love it dearly.

However, you will have to pry my Cutter eVent jacket off my cold, tattered corpse. The jacket really does live to up the hype.

I can wear it down to about 30F/-1C with just a long sleeve on under. Plus it packs down very nicely.

Best part though? Washing it refreshes the water repelling rather than wearing it away. That alone sold me.

I'm not sure the "breathable" jacket claims are really all true. I instead chose a jacket that is wind/water proof, and has zips for ventilation (Showers Pass Touring jacket). It doesn't have any insulation, so when it is below freezing I wear a warmer layer underneath and it's great being able to control my temperature with the zippers on the different parts of my ride.

The breathability of gore-tex and similar membranes depends on two things: (1) the amount of water vapor inside the breathable jacket; and the (2) temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the jacket.

No. 2 isn't intuitive, but basically the greater the temperature differential, the more water vapor will be transported from the warmer to the colder area. Since the temp inside the jacket will always be close to body temperature, the only real variable is the outside temperature, with vapor transport being much more effective in colder weather.

This is why gore-tex was adopted first and most enthusiastically by mountaineers - they tended to be in below freezing weather and not engaging in cardio, so gore-tex worked extremely well. (Lower atmospheric pressure at higher elevations may have helped with evaporation, too.).

This is also why people using goretex while running/biking/hiking in 70 degree weather were not impressed - not only is there not much of a temperature differential, but cardio in warm weather while wearing a jacket will produce too much water vapor for the fabric to handle.

I generally think that a rain cape is the best wet weather gear for biking - a huge amount of ventilation and complete waterproofness above. Not good if you want to get "aero," though.

(This reply was in response to Rob_E. For some reason, the part that I quoted did not carry over.)

I'm fairly sure that you can. I'm no expert, but from what I've read, Nikwax restores waterproofness to fabrics. I got a bottle of the pre-wash & a bottle of the spray on cleaner for about $25 total. There's enough in there for probably two rain jackets.

The prewash may not be completely necessary, but for as inexpensive as it was, I figured it would be worth it. One other note, if you do buy the Nikwax waterproofer (I forget the actual name) they sell two application styles, one that you put in the washer & wash into your clothes & another that you spray on. I was going to buy the washer one (as it's simpler) but I read online that it's better to get the spray, as the wash-in style will coat your entire garment, and you really only want the spray on the outside.

I don't have any financial (or other) interest in the company, but I have been pleased with the results I've seen from their products.

I've used wash-in Nikwax on my earlier shells. I also wash them with the dedicated detergents. It does help, but in this case I believe it was the seams that started to leak.

BTW, GoreTex advise AGAINST wash-in water repellents, saying they can have adverse effects on breathability. Better use the kind you apply on the outside only, at least with GoreTex membranes.

--J

+1 on the e-vent fabric

I used a Gore-Tex shell with active ventilation that is specifically designed for cycling. I find that it keeps me dry from rain (even in a heavy downpour), and the excellently designed active ventilation in tandem with the Gore-Tex keeps the shell from 'fogging up' due to perspiration. It was a dear jacket, but well worth the money.

I also have Gore-Tex pants from the same maker, and I'd certainly buy both the jacket and pants again as they are the only cycling rain gear I've owned that stands up to the rigors of daily commuting in really foul weather. The quality is unparalleled.


All Prices in Canadian dollars.
Old Version (Which I have) https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...t_detail&p=162

New Version with Gore-Tex Pro - https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...t_detail&p=546

Rain Pants - https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...ct_detail&p=63

https://www.taigaworks.ca/images/products/2401.jpg
https://www.taigaworks.ca/images/products/2413.jpg
https://www.taigaworks.ca/images/products/1926.jpg

the biggest issue I have with my gore-tex shell is pore clogging. Once the outer most layer of the jacket is really nice and damp, there is no path for moisture to escape from inside. I "re-waterproof" my shell on an annual basis, but I don't usually break out the gore-tex until it is below 30 degrees F because of pour performance at more mild temps.

All membrane waterproofs need a surface beading treatment to prevent the problem of pore clogging. Once the fabric becomes soaked, breathability stops and the fabric takes hours to dry out. You can restore beading with heat, use a low-temp iron or a spin dryer.
I treat my old Nashbar goretex with Nikwax and it seems to work for a few months.
My usual cold/wet jacket is Paramo, it is much better than membrane waterproofs, and I never get that cold, clammy feeling of condensation or leakage, even after 8 years of use. It's not really usable above 16C or for high intensity riding above 10C. The lining is like a thin fleece and quite insulating.
Unlike membrane systems, it works when the outside humidity is 100%.
As Alhedges stated, you need a differential for membranes to work, but it should be in humidity. Temp plays a big part in this but mainly its humidity. This is very low on high mountains and in Antarctica so they work well in these extremes where they are totally unneccesary.

Here are the first impressions. I've ridden about 150km now with the jacket and pants, or about 5 days' commute. I've only worn them in rain. Temperatures have been around +10C...+15C. I have mixed feelings.

- Water shedding is top notch. Which is to be expected, this is brand new stuff, never washed yet.
- Waterproofing works. Again, these are new products and they have minimal zippers, seams etc. Nothing much to NOT work there.
- Breathability... well. This is definitely the best jacket/pants combo I've used. I get sweaty a lot later and less than in my earlier waterproof clothes. And after an uphill, for example, I cool down faster. Just for the heck of it I tried one of the old jackets on (one that still sheds water nicely) the other day, for a short leg. The difference is clear. But... I still get sweaty. I wish they had put some zippered ventilation in the jacket.
- Usability: fair. I could use more pockets, as the jacket only has one zippered pocket (there is one small waist "pouch" hanging on the inside of the pants). But that's just a matter of rearranging my small items, not a big deal. The shell is very comfortable to wear, sleeves, back and legs are long enough for cycling, color is good for commuting in traffic.

Bottom line ATM: definitely better than any waterproof gear I've had so far, but still not quite there. Considering the price, I'm tentatively looking into the Goretex breathability guarantee, haven't really decided if I'll go that way or not.

--J

I don't think I would ever buy anything goretex simply because of the price. I actually bough a non-cycling (but adequate for that purpose) goretex jacking at a thrift store a couple of weeks ago for $10. I didn't notice a huge difference in breathability between my other nylon or polyester rain jackets (maybe a little better but you still sweat) it was very waterproof though and I'll continue to use it, but I wouldn't have paid 200 for it. Diminishing returns on my dollar are too great. Maybe someday when I am wealthy beyond my wildest dreams.

I've had some training in this, and sell waterproof breathable stuff.

Keep it clean! Some kind of tech wash is recommended, some people say a little powder detergent is OK, as long as you rinse thoroughly.

Personally, I'll use some kind of specific wash product, and still double rinse.

Tumble Dry. As long as the garment will take it, this is what re-activates the DWR. ( Durable Water Repellency )

If using a product to renew the DWT, if the fabric is a 3 layer ( counter intuitively it looks like one piece ) then we recommend a wash in, if it is a 2 layer ( has a separate lining ) the use the spray on from the outside.

Active shell is a new way of making GoreTex, they have figured a way of making the lining and the membrane as one, which means theres only one layer of glue, which is where the extra breathabilityy comes from.

I'm waiting for a jacket made of NeoShell from PolarTec, if they ever get it to market.