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Should I boot this? Is this tire done for? New tire advice?

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Should I boot this? Is this tire done for? New tire advice?

Old 10-18-11, 08:28 AM
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Mithrandir
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Should I boot this? Is this tire done for? New tire advice?

So I'm biking to work, 5 miles left out of 20, and then I hear the pppfoosh pppfoosh pppfoosh pppfoosh pppfoosh sound of a fast flat. Damnit!

So the hole looks like this: Π

I tried to take pics but they came out blurry because I only had my cell phone:


Basically the thing that worries me is that when the tire is inflated, the tube is visible through the hole. I didn't think it was that big before I inflated, but I was late for work and I only had 5 miles left, and I used my only CO2 cartridge, so I didn't really want to deflate, boot, then reinflate with my hand pump, as that would make me even later for work. It held up for the rest of the trip.

But now I've got a 20 mile commute home. I'm worried this could cause a blowout. Is it wise to leave work a little early, boot it, and then reinflate and go on my way?

Is the tire done for?


If so, that means I'm really pissed. This tire is brand new. Just put it on 8 days ago. It's a Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 26x2.0, my 6th one of the season so far. I just replaced the last one after it blew out after only 9 days of use. I'm not having any luck with these tires. 11 flats in 21 commutes. For crying out loud this is ridiculous. I have one more spare MS that I'll use to replace this one if it's done for, but then I'm done with this tire. I need recommendations for a new one. I've spent more money on the frigging tires in one year than I've spent on the whole bike since I've had it. I can't keep doing this. I will not be buying Schwalbe again, this is insane.
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Old 10-18-11, 08:41 AM
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I asked a similar question recently and the consensus seemed to be my tire was toast. However I'll probably try a combination of a Park Tools boot plus some super glue (or equivalent) just to see what happens. I ride locally, and I don't race, so I figure nothing ventured, nothing gained.

The cut on my tire is invisible when the tire is not mounted & inflated.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:02 AM
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Wow, you must be riding over some seriously rough terrain. What did you hit that made that hole? I'm running Forte Gotham 700x32 tires right now. They seem to be very flat resistant. They're my do everything including commute tire. You can usually buy them for about $12.99, so if you don't like or they blow out just as much you're not out a lot of money. The specs online say you can only inflate to 70psi, but I believe the 700x32 can go up to 90. At 80 they roll really nice and have great traction.

Last edited by matimeo; 10-18-11 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:10 AM
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Sorry for your troubles, Mithrandir!

I've had good fortune with Kenda, Continental, and Panaracers.

- Slim
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Old 10-18-11, 09:10 AM
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Normally when you get a hole like that the tire is just about worn through, and the advice it to toss it. For something like a 10-day-old tire, though it might be worth an attempt at a repair.

I'd start by gluing on a piece of FedEx envelope (or similar) on the inside. I can't tell how big the cut is, so I'll guess 1/4" to 3/8". For something that size, look for some Shoe Goo and glue the cut from the outside.

My last recommendation would be to watch where you're going. That might mean getting off the shoulder, staying on the track swept clean by cars, or choosing another route with cleaner roads. It sounds like you ride through way too much debris if you're going through new tires every month or so.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by matimeo View Post
Wow, you must be riding over some seriously rough terrain. What did you hit that made that hole?
I've intentionally lengthened the commute by over a mile to avoid rough terrain, which is the most annoying part about this. Anyway, I couldn't find anything that I hit. I walked backwards about 0.1 of a mile just to see if I could find anything that matches that imprint, but I couldn't find anything. There was no debris in the tire. I'm at a complete loss here.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:25 AM
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I also had very bad luck with Schwalbe Marathon tires.
Had flats every 260 miles.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
I've intentionally lengthened the commute by over a mile to avoid rough terrain, which is the most annoying part about this. Anyway, I couldn't find anything that I hit. I walked backwards about 0.1 of a mile just to see if I could find anything that matches that imprint, but I couldn't find anything. There was no debris in the tire. I'm at a complete loss here.
Hey Mithrandir!

Your situation sounds kind of uinque. If I were you, I'd write Schwalbe with my complaint and copies of the receipts, along with pictures of the tires. I would then tell them that you highly suspect that there's something defective about your Schwalbe tires. I would also complain to the BBB if they act ill-concerned about the matter.

At any rate, make a formal complaint. Perhaps they'll send a refund, a voucher, or coupons or something...

- Slim
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Old 10-18-11, 09:48 AM
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I'd clean it out well with alcohol, boot it on the inside and shoe-goo the outside. I've done that on other tires with lots of tread left. Six 26x2.0 tires in one year? What do you mean one of them "blew out"? You must be riding in especially rough roads. Would you consider Conti Travel Contact in 26"x1.75?
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Old 10-18-11, 09:48 AM
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Since they're expensive, and new, boot them with a Park boot, folded dollar bill, a few layers of duct tape, or a strip of denim. If it starts bulging, replace it.

Also, for your physical well being, be sure it's on the back wheel.



They're not defective, they're tires, and tires are cut easily.
Just because they market the tires as amazing feats of engineering , doesn't mean that actually carries over to the real world.

A dense rubber strip can surely help prevent a flat, but any tire will cut easily given a large enough object.
Expensive tires just mean a higher replacement cost, and a brand name.* For some people that name is worth it, though.

Most folks don't spend big $$ on tires. A mid range tire is just as durable/fast/comfortable as a tire branded Schwalbe, that sells for two to three times as much.**

*Professional Racers excluded (Not roadies though.)

** The Marathon Plus, with it's ********ly thick rubber strip may very well be worth the money to those with a flat phobia, but there are similar tires for less, and they're certainly overkill for most folks.
[/rant]

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Old 10-18-11, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
I've intentionally lengthened the commute by over a mile to avoid rough terrain, which is the most annoying part about this. Anyway, I couldn't find anything that I hit. I walked backwards about 0.1 of a mile just to see if I could find anything that matches that imprint, but I couldn't find anything. There was no debris in the tire. I'm at a complete loss here.
What psi do you run them at?
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Old 10-18-11, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by matimeo View Post
What psi do you run them at?
Max recommended on the sidewall, 70PSI. Check them every night before the commute.
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Old 10-18-11, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Hey Mithrandir!

Your situation sounds kind of uinque. If I were you, I'd write Schwalbe with my complaint and copies of the receipts, along with pictures of the tires. I would then tell them that you highly suspect that there's something defective about your Schwalbe tires. I would also complain to the BBB if they act ill-concerned about the matter.

At any rate, make a formal complaint. Perhaps they'll send a refund, a voucher, or coupons or something...



- Slim
Well, I'm right here.... and have been on these boards at length over the past several years. I am very familiar with the warranty process here, and I can assure you that there have been no prevalent issues with the Marathon Supreme. It is a very highly regarded tire and I'm sure over the course of the day as people read this thread, most of them will concur. That doesn't change Mithrandir's circumstance, and I'm sure he's not exagerating his bad experience.

Mithrandir, PM me and I'll give you some contact information and I'll see if there's anything I can do for you. If you still have the tires that you've had issues with I will want some photos of the trouble spots, and the production codes from inside the tire. When you PM me, I'll let you know what the production code looks like; it's not the barcode. If there is something defective about your tires, we will take care of them.

Cheers
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Old 10-18-11, 11:44 AM
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Hey,
i've repaired tyres before. I got a nasty gash in the sidewall and glued a normal puncture patch on the inside and rode it like this for a while even though it bulged. After a few weeks i got tired of looking at the red lump and glued a piece of canvas over the gash (on the inside) with contact adhesive and i'ts much better now, you can hardly see it. Good luck.
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Old 10-18-11, 12:58 PM
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What is on the roads out there? Bear traps? Seriously, I saw your pictures of the other tire failure. That was nasty. I'd love to see some pictures of the road conditions. I ride through what I consider to be a lot of crap with lesser tires and haven't had the kind of issues you're having.

I did get a screw through a Marathon Supreme once. I unscrewed it and never had any problems. I had a chunk taken out of an Ultremo R.1 (very soft tire) similar to what you've pictured. In that case, I "patched" it with some Shoe Goo and got another 1000 miles out of the tire (and even then the patched spot was still holding up fine).

With the kind of damage you're getting, I think a set of Marathon Plusses might be in order. Although the Marathon Supreme is more expensive, it's not tougher. The primary flat protection strategy of the Marathon Plus is that it's got a lot of rubber with a thick piece of very hard rubber underneath. If you lost a chunk of that tire the size of what you've pictured, you probably wouldn't even be through the to inner strip yet.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:13 PM
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Hopefully they will have Engineers look into whether or not they do indeed have a problem. They could have a quality control issue and you pointing it out could be doing a favor for a lot of people.
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Old 10-18-11, 09:41 PM
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All you need is a strong piece of cloth. Nylon from an old jacket or garment bag is perfect. Use about a 1" square. I just place it in over the cut, but some people glue them in there. I and many others have put 1000's of miles on tires booted like this. I think it helps to work some sealant into the cut area from the outside of the tire (I use Shoe Goo, but I don't know if that's the best).

I don't care what kind of tires you have, a heavy hit on a sharp object will cut a tire easily.
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Old 10-19-11, 11:20 AM
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No one has yet contacted me directly on this, but I will provide some numbers. Since June 1, 2011 we have sold well over 3,500 Marathon Supreme tires. We have 9 warranty claims in that same period of time for the Marathon Supreme. Two of the claims were a circumstance where the customer had bought the wrong size (too wide). Generally these claims (purchase wrong size) are not valid, but someone upstairs was feeling benevolent that day. They couldn't be returned for credit because they had been mounted.

As Wake said:

"I don't care what kind of tires you have, a heavy hit on a sharp object will cut a tire easily."

I will have to say that this is extraordinary bad luck, but if you look at the picture that has been posted, it's clear that something sharp has penetrated the tire. That nothing was found is not surprising. Could have occurred miles before the point where the tube failed, or an object can be picked up briefly by the tire and flung as the tire rotates.
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Old 10-19-11, 11:28 AM
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He ran over something,the rubber didn't just pop off off the tire.You can boot that tire,no problem.Just run it on the back wheel,just in case.

Clean the inside of the tire real good.Soap and water is fine.DON"T scuff it,the tire casing is there.You don't want to break anymore threads.

Use some type of glue that is pliable,(Shoe Goo,Seam Grip,Silicone,contact cement).Glue some cloth or an old piece of tire or tube over the hole on the inside.Fill the hole on the outside.Done.

If the hole is about 1/4",and you have 80# of air in the tire,there's less than 10# of force on the hole you patched,nothing.

I'd run it on my bike with 10 days on it.

I've run regular Marathons for the last couple years,no complaints.

Last edited by Booger1; 10-19-11 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 10-19-11, 12:29 PM
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I had a fast flat on a brand new Marathon Supreme right after building my new commuter. When I repaired it, I found the equivalent of an Xact-o blade (size and shape) stuck in the tread. Like the OP's flat, I doubt any tire is going to hold up to that.

Wise or not, I have put a LOT of commuting miles on tires that I have repaired with much larger cuts in them than that. I just boot them up as best I can and keep riding. I think tires are generally a lot more robust than people give them credit for.
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Old 10-19-11, 12:56 PM
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Boot it and you should be fine if you don't see any bulging. I've ridden on worse holes than that for many, many miles.
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