Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

Copenhagen - The Bicycle Holy Land

Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

Copenhagen - The Bicycle Holy Land

Reply

Old 12-13-04, 04:51 AM
  #1  
bpave777
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bpave777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Copenhagen/San Francisco
Posts: 71

Bikes: Cyclocross, Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Copenhagen - The Bicycle Holy Land

my company has sent me to Copenhagen, where i've been now for a week. my first day here was spent in complete awe at the amount of bikes. they are everywhere. every intersection is a parade of bicycles. every block has bikes lined up, parked in front of store fronts and building entrances. every bike rack in the city is filled. suffice to say, my second day here i bought a bike.

since Copenhagen is all flat, and the only hill i climb is out of the driveway of my apartment building, i went with a popular Dutch three speed called a Batavus. all the Dutch-style vintage and retro bikes are popular here. there are a few Danish companies that make similar bikes, but i've been wanting a Batavus for some time, and the availability in the US is nil. i'm trying to arrange binging mine back. although the hills in SF are going to kill me on it. whatever, i'll look good <g>

now for the best part; the hierarchy on the road goes like this: Bikes > Cars > Pedestrians. i'm only used to being on the bottom of that list in the states. it's obvious wherever you ride that you own the roads. not only are you in a group of bikes in any direction you are going, you have your own lanes on almost every street. at every intersection the cars are waiting for the groups to pass before making turns in front of you. it is the exception to have a close call. i was in a cab my first day (the only cab i've taken) and watched as we came close to a rider. the rider turned to look at the driver with astonishment, like that was the first time anyone had come close to hitting him. now after a week of commuting i can see why.

what's also rad is there are as many women riders as there are men. plus a large amount of commuters have their kids with them. the kids ride in kids seats or are carried on these popular Danish bikes in covered compartments.

i'm in heaven riding out here. i wasted space carrying all my gear from the states with me though. i packed all my road riding gear (padded shorts, lycra jerseys, winter gear) and haven't needed it once. my Brooks B66 saddle is wonderful, so no need for padded shorts under my pants. plus i'm buying as many wool sweaters as i can find and bringing them back with me. wool is where it's at for cycling. i brought rain gear, but it hasn't rained yet <knock on wood>. we're expecting some this week, so we'll see what that's like. i'll need something for my feet, since i'll i brought for riding was my Chuck Taylors. maybe just some rubber booties? as for weather, it's been between 30 and 40 the entire time, which surprisingly feels like the 40s and 50s in San Francisco.

hope you're all having as much fun on your commute this winter as i am.

Bjorn
bpave777 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 06:44 AM
  #2  
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Can I work for your company? I mean, seriously?

I've alsol heard the good word about Copenhagen. Do make sure you keep your bike locked, though. I thought I remember someone saying there may be a problem with bike theft.

Let me know if you ever quit your job so I can have it!

Koffee
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 06:48 AM
  #3  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,321

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Fuzz, looks like I know where i'm moving to when I graduate...!
operator is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 07:11 AM
  #4  
norton
EmperorNorton II
 
norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Florence, Mass
Posts: 581

Bikes: Dahon Helios SL, 1975 Stephen Rogers Custom, 05 Catrike Speed....(in the past) a tandem & a Vacuum Velocipede

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great post! The series of pictures made me feel like I was right there with you where the rubber meets the road!
norton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 08:52 AM
  #5  
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 12,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Not in Copenhagen, but went into town to do some shopping on Sat and every bike parking space was occupied. Besides all the low-rent MTBs and hybrids were a couple of electric bikes, some folders and even a racing (non-recumbent) tricycle. Even though I had to wait a few mins for a space to free up, it was encouraging to see everone riding on such a cold, cloudy day. I really like the attitute that riding is just a normal thing that anyone can do in normal clothes.
MichaelW is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 11:46 AM
  #6  
ddaavviidd
dances with cars
 
ddaavviidd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Malmo, Sweden
Posts: 19

Bikes: 80's Motobecane Super Mirage + old hardtail MTB w/ slicks

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I couldn't agree more. It's funny, I've been thinking the same since saturday, when I went with a buddy on a daytrip over the bridge (from Malmö, Sweden, where we live). The cities are like, I don't know, 20 kilometers away, but the bike culture in Copenhagen is of another (better) world. I spent most of the day just bicycle-gazing. And best of all, I found a shop called Sögreni, and they design the most beautiful bikes I think I've ever seen!

In Sweden it's very much like how MichaelW expressed it; "the attitude that riding is just a normal thing that anyone can do in normal clothes", just as in Denmark and I guess the rest of Europe. It's not a 'statement' to own and ride a bike, as it seems to be in the USA. Just about everyone does it. But, sadly, people on my side of Öresund don't care for their bicycles half as much as the residents of Copenhagen seem to do. Whereas you see most Swedes ride around on ugly beat up bikes - as long as they get you where you're going - the Danes seem to put greater importance on having a fast and good looking vehicle. I love it, and I'm seriously thinking of moving..

As for the differences between American and European bicycle culture, where I get the impression American bikers seem to be a small but extremely enthusiastic subculture, I'm guessing it has a lot to do with geography, which has to do with city planning. European cities are in general quite compact, while most American cities seem to be more 'sprawling', making cars a more natural means of transportation (yes i know it's a chicken/egg thing, cars have of course had a great effect on the way cities are built).
ddaavviidd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 12:51 PM
  #7  
rnagaoka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 275

Bikes: 1984 Raleigh Kodiak Touring, 1992 Scott MTB, 2004 Fuji Touring

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ddaavviidd
And best of all, I found a shop called Sögreni, and they design the most beautiful bikes I think I've ever seen!
hmmm...beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess!


(Actually, their commuting bikes really do look classy.)
rnagaoka is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 01:06 PM
  #8  
hotwheels
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 294

Bikes: Trek7300, GT Palomar

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
That bike is tha bomb, only a warrior, or a capricorn could ride such a creation.
hotwheels is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 01:20 PM
  #9  
RainmanP
Mr. Cellophane
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Astute observation, ddaavviidd. There is indeed sprawl, and it is a chicken or egg problem. As more and more people bought cars and there was an abundance of cheap gasoline here in the States, they could then commute farther. This meant they could live farther out of town and buy a nicer house for the money. But this often meant more wives had to work to help pay for the house. Then more people wanted nicer houses so they moved farther out. Then there was more traffic so commuters clamored fo more and improved streets, roads and freeways. The freeways meant people could get to work faster so they could buy even farther out, pushing the traffic out, increasing the demand for more freeways. Then it was too crowded closer to town so people moved farther out. And the vicious cycle continues to this day. Expressway systems in many large metropolitan areas are a mess because they are constantly under construction. Before one enlargement project is even finished traffic has outgrown it and another commences. My parents have lived in Houston, Texas, since 1978. I have been driving there to visit them for Thanksgiving and at least one other time every year since then. In Houston and in Beaumont, a city about 1.5 hrs before Houston, the expressway (Interstate 10) has been under construction continuously for the past 26 years that I have been making that drive! You and most other Europeans would not believe how many people in Houston and other large metropolitan areas drive 50-75 miles (75-100+ km) EACH WAY.
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 01:39 PM
  #10  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Originally Posted by RainmanP
You and most other Europeans would not believe how many people in Houston and other large metropolitan areas drive 50-75 miles (75-100+ km) EACH WAY.
That is a awful commute. I think a 10 mile commute is too long! The only reason I commute 20 miles into Manhattan is because it's ALL on rail! There is NO way I could ever commute into Manhattan or any other city by motorcar because of the tension and stress. My ride into the city is stress free and I intend to keep it that way.
Dahon.Steve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 01:43 PM
  #11  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bpave777
since Copenhagen is all flat, and the only hill i climb is out of the driveway of my apartment building, i went with a popular Dutch three speed called a Batavus. all the Dutch-style vintage and retro bikes are popular here. there are a few Danish companies that make similar bikes, but i've been wanting a Batavus for some time, and the availability in the US is nil. i'm trying to arrange binging mine back. although the hills in SF are going to kill me on it. whatever, i'll look good
Bjorn
I like the Batavus and bikes like the Breezer cost almost $900.00 dollars for the same features.

I suspect that bike theft isn't a massive problem as it is in New York City. I doubt you'll see any bike locked with the New York Chain like ever bike in Manhattan so that should be blessing.
Dahon.Steve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 02:06 PM
  #12  
John Ridley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I heard or read an article a few months ago about how all bikes in Copenhagen weigh 40 pounds. The 10 pound bikes need 30 pounds of bike locks to keep them safe, the 30 pounds only need a 10 pound lock, the 40 pound bikes don't need a lock; nobody will steal them.
John Ridley is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 02:41 PM
  #13  
halfbiked
dangerous with tools
 
halfbiked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: minneapolis
Posts: 4,502

Bikes: fat, long, single & fast

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We're headed to denmark in a week. I stumbled across http://sogreni.com/ this weekend; their shop is definitely one I want to visit while we're there.
halfbiked is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 03:10 PM
  #14  
bpave777
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bpave777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Copenhagen/San Francisco
Posts: 71

Bikes: Cyclocross, Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Regarding bike theft: my first day i went into at least five bike shops trying out various bikes. i asked the workers at each bike shop if bike theft was a problem in Copenhagen. they all agreed it was. they also told me that i *have* to have a lock. i brought my mini u-lock with me, and figured that's what they meant. it wasn't. the built-in lock that comes equipped on the bike is all they meant. the lock looks a bit like a back brake, but has a key slot in the side, and a lever to lower a piece of metal between your spokes. these are the only bike locks people use out here, with a few exceptions.

i do see cable locks through the front tires of certain bikes. these bikes are almost all mountain bikes. it seems that they are the most popular to steal. i hear that thieves drive by in a truck and load them in. one rumor i heard was that, of the bikes that are stolen, many are brought to the Ukraine and other Eastern European countries to be sold.

the rear tire lock is sufficient on all other bike models. this blew me away. i mean you can basically walk away with any bike you see on the street. sure the back tire is locked, but that's it. i was suspicious at first, so i used my u-lock. then, after seeing so many bikes with only the rear wheel lock, i gave in. so far so good. although i park underground at my apartment, and in a gated area at my work. still, i often park out in the open, at the mall and various shops, with only the back lock. luckily my bike blends in well.

it's a bummer everywhere can't be like this.

btw, Koffee, as long as they keep making my job interesting i'm staying <g>
bpave777 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 03:29 PM
  #15  
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 6,244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Originally Posted by RainmanP
Astute observation, ddaavviidd. There is indeed sprawl, and it is a chicken or egg problem. As more and more people bought cars and there was an abundance of cheap gasoline here in the States, they could then commute farther. This meant they could live farther out of town and buy a nicer house for the money. But this often meant more wives had to work to help pay for the house. Then more people wanted nicer houses so they moved farther out. Then there was more traffic so commuters clamored fo more and improved streets, roads and freeways. The freeways meant people could get to work faster so they could buy even farther out, pushing the traffic out, increasing the demand for more freeways. Then it was too crowded closer to town so people moved farther out. And the vicious cycle continues to this day. Expressway systems in many large metropolitan areas are a mess because they are constantly under construction. Before one enlargement project is even finished traffic has outgrown it and another commences. My parents have lived in Houston, Texas, since 1978. I have been driving there to visit them for Thanksgiving and at least one other time every year since then. In Houston and in Beaumont, a city about 1.5 hrs before Houston, the expressway (Interstate 10) has been under construction continuously for the past 26 years that I have been making that drive! You and most other Europeans would not believe how many people in Houston and other large metropolitan areas drive 50-75 miles (75-100+ km) EACH WAY.
I didn't see anything about the people fleeing from the crime in the big city.
Dchiefransom is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 04:47 PM
  #16  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Originally Posted by bpave777
Regarding bike theft: the rear tire lock is sufficient on all other bike models. this blew me away. i mean you can basically walk away with any bike you see on the street. sure the back tire is locked, but that's it. i was suspicious at first, so i used my u-lock. then, after seeing so many bikes with only the rear wheel lock, i gave in. so far so good. although i park underground at my apartment, and in a gated area at my work. still, i often park out in the open, at the mall and various shops, with only the back lock. luckily my bike blends in well.

it's a bummer everywhere can't be like this.

btw, Koffee, as long as they keep making my job interesting i'm staying <g>
That's incredible. I know the Chinese use this same kind of locking system on their bicycles. I can't believe that people in other countries use that kind of lock. Seriously. In New York City, the crooks would FIND A WAY to defeat this rear wheel lock in seconds. We always think the quality of life is so much better in the U.S. but this usually comes from people who never travel.

I envy those folks in Copenhagen. I would carry a cheap cable just in case because you never know. Do you know how much I would give just to get rid of that U-lock in my bag that I carry everywhere??? This freedom of not having to carry a massive lock with you comes from a country better quality of life. Period.

Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 12-14-04 at 08:42 AM.
Dahon.Steve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 10:12 PM
  #17  
iceratt
contre nous de la tyranie
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Siberia
Posts: 564

Bikes: Trek 830, Trek 520, Surly 1x1 fixed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by RainmanP
There is indeed sprawl. You and most other Europeans would not believe how many people in Houston and other large metropolitan areas drive 50-75 miles (75-100+ km) EACH WAY.
I complain to my coworkers who drive into Minneapolis, from Wisconsin and other hinterlands, that my six and a half mile commute is taking me 30 minutes, now that I'm bunndling up and riding more carefully, because it's winter. We each think that the other is crazy.

I may be crazy, but I have several more hours each week, to waste infront of a computer, than them! Crazy, but smart, huh?
iceratt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-04, 11:19 PM
  #18  
ollo_ollo
Senior Member
 
ollo_ollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Sublimity Orygun
Posts: 4,765

Bikes: Still have a few left!

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
"the rear tire lock is sufficient on all other bike models. this blew me away. i mean you can basically walk away with any bike you see on the street. sure the back tire is locked, but that's it"
Back in the dark ages when I was a kid, this was the standard way to lock our 50# balloon tire bikes using what used to be called a "bike lock" which was just a very simple padlock with an extra long "u" section that would fit around both stays & through the spokes. The most creative we ever got was to lock our rear wheel to a buddy's when they didn't have a lock. Never even thought to lock the bike to something else. Also I never had a bike stolen or knew anyone else that did despite our parents constantly warning us to lock our bikes.
ollo_ollo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 04:32 AM
  #19  
andygates
Just riding
 
andygates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Exeter, UK
Posts: 651

Bikes: Cannondale Bad Boy / Mercian track / BOB trailer / Moulton recumbent project

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Locking bikes TO something? I remember when that started. Thatcher, Reagan, the death of innocence or some such bull****. I miss those days.

In the UK, those rear-wheel locks are called nurses' locks, by the way. District nurses would visit their patients by bike, and the lock was an easy way of securing the bike without them having to carry anything extra.
andygates is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 06:34 AM
  #20  
Steele-Bike
RAGBRAI. Need I say more?
 
Steele-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Branch, Iowa USA
Posts: 868

Bikes: 1998 Mongoose NX7.1, 2008 Kona Jake, GT singlespeed (year unknown).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by ddaavviidd
In Sweden it's very much like how MichaelW expressed it; "the attitude that riding is just a normal thing that anyone can do in normal clothes", just as in Denmark and I guess the rest of Europe. It's not a 'statement' to own and ride a bike, as it seems to be in the USA. Just about everyone does it.
The main problem I see with cycling in the USA, is that one does not leisurely commute to work or shopping. When is the last time you heard an American cyclist say, "What a refreshing ride! I averaged 7 mph on my way into work this morning"?

In America it is all about speed and image, nothing about being practical. Maybe this is because there are so few cyclists that we feel as if we have to compete with the higher speeds of motor traffic. It's just too bad people can't slow things down and stop trying to be so 'cool'.
Steele-Bike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 08:14 AM
  #21  
ddaavviidd
dances with cars
 
ddaavviidd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Malmo, Sweden
Posts: 19

Bikes: 80's Motobecane Super Mirage + old hardtail MTB w/ slicks

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Steele-Bike
In America it is all about speed and image, nothing about being practical. Maybe this is because there are so few cyclists that we feel as if we have to compete with the higher speeds of motor traffic. It's just too bad people can't slow things down and stop trying to be so 'cool'.
Personally I wouldn't mind a little more speed and image.. I find that underdog situation of yours rather appealing, really. It's hard (and a bit suspicious) to be a bicycle aficionado where bikes are as common as dinner plates. If you feel like a freak over there, you'd definitely be one over here.
ddaavviidd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 08:22 AM
  #22  
jfz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Steele-Bike; One day this year instead of having that extra cup of coffee before time trialing off to work on my bike, I left 15 minutes early and took it a little easier. I now leave for work early and take a more leisure pace and I am enjoying the experience, occasionally I do a "time trial", but only when the urge hits me.
jfz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 10:17 AM
  #23  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Steele-Bike
The main problem I see with cycling in the USA, is that one does not leisurely commute to work or shopping. When is the last time you heard an American cyclist say, "What a refreshing ride! I averaged 7 mph on my way into work this morning"?
.
I average about 10 mph in the morning when there is very little traffic. In fact, the speed limit in my town is 25 mph so the traffic isn't so bad. Since most American cities are designed for high speed traffic, it makes the situation stressful and not so refreshing.
Dahon.Steve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 02:46 PM
  #24  
samundsen
Alien lifeform
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2002 Specialized Expedition Elite, 2005 Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Steele-Bike
The main problem I see with cycling in the USA, is that one does not leisurely commute to work or shopping. When is the last time you heard an American cyclist say, "What a refreshing ride! I averaged 7 mph on my way into work this morning"?
That's (almost) exactly what I was thinking coming into work today. "What a refreshing ride!". And I only averaged about 10mph. It was rather cold here in Houston (5 deg C). But then I'm not an American, which probably explains it.

Sverre
samundsen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-04, 04:31 PM
  #25  
AlanK
Senior Member
 
AlanK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle, WA (United States)
Posts: 543
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Steele-Bike
In America it is all about speed and image, nothing about being practical. Maybe this is because there are so few cyclists that we feel as if we have to compete with the higher speeds of motor traffic. It's just too bad people can't slow things down and stop trying to be so 'cool'.
I agree completely. While I love bicycling, there's too much social-pretense involved with U.S. bicyclists. I'm one of the few bicyclists I see who rides wearing normal clothes. Most other bicyclists I see wear bright spandex, shirts with logos, overly-elaborate helmets, etc. I think it really is characteristic of U.S. culture; a very materialistic, image-conscious society. It's like cyclists have to present themselves as a cool-social clique , rather than just average people who happen to ride bikes.
AlanK is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service