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How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths

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How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths

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Old 01-19-12, 06:36 AM
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How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths

In order for the world and the western hemisphere in particular, to enjoy safe cycling commutes, much change will have to take place. Our cities will have to generate environmentally concerned populations. Those populations will have to become more politically involved at the grassroots level. More individuals must take more of an active role in cycling advocacy. We're going to have to establish various funds, that will support such changes. In addition to the average blue collar worker, we need more professionals to advocate commuter cycling. We need more politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, teachers, and students to take up the banner of cycling, and hold it erect with dignity, pride, and insight. We must all possess a vision, that will accomodate the future transportation needs of our collective offspring. We must rebuild our cities infrastructure, in order to facilitate safer and healthier future travel, via cycling. We both can and must do this! We don't have time to sit idlely while commuting cyclists are being slaughtered in our cities streets.

All we have to do, is to follow the lead of our Dutch brethern. All we have to do is, study How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
(Click here to see the video)

- Slim

PS.

This post was inspired by Interceptor and Hagen2456

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Old 01-19-12, 06:44 AM
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This clip has already been shown and used in countless many other threads so far.

Meanwhile, in the real news, the number of Dutch children that get seriously wounded in traffic while they were cycling, is rising. According to the Stichting Consument en veiligheid [Consumer and safety] 81% of those accidents are one-sided -- only the child is to blame.

And in its turn that is apparently caused because more children than ever are using their phones while they are cycling, or playing games on those things.
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Old 01-19-12, 06:52 AM
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It seems to me that what is needed is a combination of arterial roads that are designed to be friendly to faster users (i.e. motor vehicles and perhaps fast cyclists) and other roads that are designed to be friendly to slower users (i.e. cyclists and pedestrians), using segregation if necessary. The trouble is, especially in older cities, that there is only so much space. In theory it would be easy to simply close existing roads to motor traffic but unless it was going to be done on a huge scale (which seems unlikely, as accessibility to the disabled and cargo also needs to be considered) we'd just end up with a hotch potch of cycle routes that didn't go anywhere.

Amsterdam may be a shining example of a city that is bike friendly but having walked there I found there were so many bikes coming from so many directions they were a liability. From what I gather from others who have lived there the bikes are suffering the same congestion issues that cars suffer in other cities.
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Old 01-19-12, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ijsbrand View Post
This clip has already been shown and used in countless many other threads so far.

Meanwhile, in the real news, the number of Dutch children that get seriously wounded in traffic while they were cycling, is rising. According to the Stichting Consument en veiligheid [Consumer and safety] 81% of those accidents are one-sided -- only the child is to blame.

And in its turn that is apparently caused because more children than ever are using their phones while they are cycling, or playing games on those things.
Even so, this remains a very important video to see, as it contains quite a poignant message. The rise in the cycling deaths of children that you've quoted is not due to cycling, cycling lanes, or the accomodations that have been made in order to advance the mode of cycling. These deaths were due to the irresponsible, immature, irrational, and indiscrete behavior of children who have had no effective instruction as to when and where to use their electronics. This is to be interpreted as a side issue, irrelevant, impertinent, and distractive from the point of imminent world commuter change, in traffic accomodations for the safety of world commuter cyclists.

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Old 01-19-12, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ijsbrand View Post
This clip has already been shown and used in countless many other threads so far.

Meanwhile, in the real news, the number of Dutch children that get seriously wounded in traffic while they were cycling, is rising. According to the Stichting Consument en veiligheid [Consumer and safety] 81% of those accidents are one-sided -- only the child is to blame.

And in its turn that is apparently caused because more children than ever are using their phones while they are cycling, or playing games on those things.
I fail to see the relevance. All I can see in your post is more VC nonsense.
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Old 01-19-12, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Even so, this remains a very important video to see, as it contains quite a poignant message. The rise in the cycling deaths of children that you've quoted is not due to cycling, cycling lanes, or the accomodations that have been made in order to advance the mode of cycling. These deaths were due to the irresponsible, immature, irrational, and indiscrete behavior of children who have had no effective instruction as to when and where to use their electronics. This is to be interpreted as a side issue, irrelevant, impertinent, and distractive from the point of imminent world commuter change, in traffic accomodations for the safety of world commuter cyclists.

- Slim
Injuries increased. Deaths actually decreased by a third to 20 per year. The researchers claim inattentiveness/gaming/mobile phones, but the breakdown shows that the increase is greatest in children aged 0-4 (34% increase), and 9-12 (35% increase). The under 4 children are generally learning to cycle, the 9-12 group will ride their bike to school. I can see gaming being a problem in the latter group, but not so in the first. The thing about 81% of accidents being 'one-sided' as Ijsbrand puts it, actually means that no other party was involved in the incident. This is simply children riding into things and falling of their bike. So, the relevance of these data in a discussion on cycle paths seems rather limited.
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Old 01-19-12, 07:57 AM
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Slim, energy poverty and high density living is the only thing that will drive non-cycling Americans to higher bicycle use as primary transportation. A modern motorcycle has about 50hp. That's enough hp to drive a small car to commuting speeds and more than VW bugs had when they were introduced in the US in the late 50's. Given the wealth and waste represented by 300hp 6000lb SUVs we've got a long way to deleverage from a lifestyle made possible from cheap oil. ok,ok, I'll check out the video.
I was talking to a fellow from Germany who was here with his sons for a few weeks. He said he was amazed by mothers driving up to load their big SUV up with groceries while leaving the engine running for the few minutes they were parked. When people drive up in their 3000lb car and turn the engine off to save gas or chose to have one car so their kid can go to college there will be more bikes for transportation.
Until then enjoy the ride!

ok, checked the video. Thx, good story. There are significant differences between US and Netherlands but there are worthwhile lessons to be learned how differently the '73 oil crisis and the environmental movement took hold.

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Old 01-19-12, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
I was talking to a fellow from Germany who was here with his sons for a few weeks. He said he was amazed by mothers driving up to load their big SUV up with groceries while leaving the engine running for the few minutes they were parked. When people drive up in their 3000lb car and turn the engine off to save gas or chose to have one car so their kid can go to college there will be more bikes for transportation.
When I'm in the US it always catches me off guard at first when I see the number of people driving around in a huge pickup or SUV, the people who drive from one end of a strip mall to the other (after all, it must be at least 100 yards or so), and people who leave their engine running while nobody is in the vehicle and they are in the bank or whatever.

That said there must be a happy medium somewhere between people who weigh more than their truck driving the 50 yards to the end of their drive to get the mail, and barely being able to walk anywhere for fear of being run over by a cyclist.
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Old 01-19-12, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by contango View Post
When I'm in the US it always catches me off guard at first when I see the number of people driving around in a huge pickup or SUV, the people who drive from one end of a strip mall to the other (after all, it must be at least 100 yards or so), and people who leave their engine running while nobody is in the vehicle and they are in the bank or whatever.
this graph pretty much says it all. Inflation adjusted price of gasoline was dropping since 1980 and gov't policies encouraged the purchase of SUV/light trucks as people movers over more efficient sedan/station wagons. Moreover last time Federal gas tax was increased was 1993. All those inefficient people movers were put on the road right up to the time oil started to triple in price. It's almost a tragicomedy.

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Old 01-19-12, 09:23 AM
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Could we move this to the A&S forum, and leave the commuting forum free to talk about something else -- like commuting?
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Old 01-19-12, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
In order for the world and the western hemisphere in particular, to enjoy safe cycling commutes, much change will have to take place. Our cities will have to generate environmentally concerned populations. Those populations will have to become more politically involved at the grassroots level. More individuals must take more of an active role in cycling advocacy. We're going to have to establish various funds, that will support such changes. In addition to the average blue collar worker, we need more professionals to advocate commuter cycling. We need more politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, teachers, and students to take up the banner of cycling, and hold it erect with dignity, pride, and insight. We must all possess a vision, that will accomodate the future transportation needs of our collective offspring. We must rebuild our cities infrastructure, in order to facilitate safer and healthier future travel, via cycling. We both can and must do this! We don't have time to sit idlely while commuting cyclists are being slaughtered in our cities streets.

All we have to do, is to follow the lead of our Dutch brethern. All we have to do is, study How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
(Click here to see the video)

- Slim

PS.

This post was inspired by Interceptor and Hagen2456
Who's side are you on? People aren't going to ride bicycles if their going to be "slaughtered in our city streets". That's the excuse lots of people give for not riding.

The video doesn't say the Dutch made cycling paths because of environmental concerns. "STOP KINDERMOORD!" Save the children was their rally cry. We saved our children by driving them everywhere, including 5 blocks to school. Parents here are certainly not going to let their children ride bicycles to be "slaughtered in the streets".

I would be interested in some accurate statistics. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-19-12, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
In order for the world and the western hemisphere in particular, to enjoy safe cycling commutes, much change will have to take place.
Incorrect. Infrastructure is nice, but not necessary.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 01-19-12, 10:50 AM
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Old 01-19-12, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Could we move this to the A&S forum, and leave the commuting forum free to talk about something else -- like commuting?
+1

This is getting ridiculous.
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Old 01-19-12, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Could we move this to the A&S forum, and leave the commuting forum free to talk about something else -- like commuting?
Well, after all, it IS about commuting - about how safe commuting can be, right?
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Old 01-19-12, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by locolobo13 View Post
Who's side are you on? People aren't going to ride bicycles if their going to be "slaughtered in our city streets". That's the excuse lots of people give for not riding.

The video doesn't say the Dutch made cycling paths because of environmental concerns.
Neither did Slim, except as an propos.

"STOP KINDERMOORD!" Save the children was their rally cry. We saved our children by driving them everywhere, including 5 blocks to school. Parents here are certainly not going to let their children ride bicycles to be "slaughtered in the streets".

I would be interested in some accurate statistics.
Accurate statistics on what?
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Old 01-19-12, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
Incorrect. Infrastructure is nice, but not necessary.
Depends on what you want. If you want lots of people to bike, there doesn't seem to be any way around it. Not everywhere, of course - other measures can be implemented, like road/street diets, like shared streets with 10 mph speed limit etc.
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Old 01-19-12, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by locolobo13 View Post
Who's side are you on? People aren't going to ride bicycles if their going to be "slaughtered in our city streets". That's the excuse lots of people give for not riding.

The video doesn't say the Dutch made cycling paths because of environmental concerns. "STOP KINDERMOORD!" Save the children was their rally cry. We saved our children by driving them everywhere, including 5 blocks to school. Parents here are certainly not going to let their children ride bicycles to be "slaughtered in the streets".

I would be interested in some accurate statistics. Just my 2 cents.
I took the stop slaughtering our children as car on car collisions were the cause of death for the children based off the images they showed of car on car wrecks while hitting on that point.

Even though this does apply to commuting I do think those who say it should be in a&s are right, this is more of an advocacy thing.
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Old 01-19-12, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hagen2456 View Post
Depends on what you want. If you want lots of people to bike, there doesn't seem to be any way around it. Not everywhere, of course - other measures can be implemented, like road/street diets, like shared streets with 10 mph speed limit etc.
I just want to be able to ride. I don't care what other people do. But if others want to ride too, infrastructure is not necessary.
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Old 01-19-12, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
I just want to be able to ride. I don't care what other people do. But if others want to ride too, infrastructure is not necessary.
Yeah. Never mind other people. Never mind the obesity epidemic. Never mind the countless road casualties. Never mind the pollution and congestion in the cities. Never mind the mindless waste of oil. As long as I can ride.
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Old 01-19-12, 12:50 PM
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Whatever. I'm not going to force someone to ride. Just like I don't want them to force me not to ride. Why be a Nazi about it?
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Old 01-19-12, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hagen2456 View Post
Yeah. Never mind other people. Never mind the obesity epidemic. Never mind the countless road casualties. Never mind the pollution and congestion in the cities. Never mind the mindless waste of oil. As long as I can ride.
Cycling just has to be your way. No freedom in your socialist corner. Conform or get the hell out.
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Old 01-19-12, 06:01 PM
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Old 01-19-12, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tractorlegs View Post
The 4 day old thread on basically the same subject, also by slimrider is even more entertaining.
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Old 01-20-12, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
In order for the world and the western hemisphere in particular, to enjoy safe cycling commutes, much change will have to take place. Our cities will have to generate environmentally concerned populations. Those populations will have to become more politically involved at the grassroots level. More individuals must take more of an active role in cycling advocacy. We're going to have to establish various funds, that will support such changes. In addition to the average blue collar worker, we need more professionals to advocate commuter cycling. We need more politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, teachers, and students to take up the banner of cycling, and hold it erect with dignity, pride, and insight. We must all possess a vision, that will accomodate the future transportation needs of our collective offspring. We must rebuild our cities infrastructure, in order to facilitate safer and healthier future travel, via cycling. We both can and must do this! We don't have time to sit idlely while commuting cyclists are being slaughtered in our cities streets.

All we have to do, is to follow the lead of our Dutch brethern. All we have to do is, study How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
(Click here to see the video)

- Slim

PS.

This post was inspired by Interceptor and Hagen2456
Slim, you come across so preachy. Relax, dude.
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