Sawtooth

I realize this could open a can of worms, but I read with interest yesterday Grant Peterson's essay on platform pedals and how he feels that there is relativley little to be gained in terms of efficiency and speed by riding clipless https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse . I have been clipless for years and would never go back in warm weather. But his comments intrigue me for winter riding. The folks on Ice Bike also refer to riding platforms in the winter. This would allow riding with boots and would eliminate a whole lot of problems with foot warmth.

Have any of you experienced and speedy cyclists tested this theory and found platforms to be just as fast as clipless?

dalmore

It's not speed and efficiancy for me - it's not slipping pedals.

late

I like Grant. I also like my spds...

fender1

It is the slipping that is the issue. I had a set of the MKS touring pedals on my commuter and noticed no real time difference between them and spd. I did notice in rain that my feet started to slip so I went back to the spd. I may give the power grips a try as the middle ground. Winter is coming and warm feet would be nice.

jyossarian

For me, it's not speed, it's acceleration. I can accelerate better and more smoothly while seated and clipped in than if I just used platforms. For maintaining higher than normal speeds, it's nice to be able to distribute the work between the quads and hamstrings rather than rely on the quads alone.

Jeffbeerman2

From the article:
this makes lot of sense to me. When I ride on just platforms in street shoes I feel more awkward, it is probably that I have just become very used to having my feet clipped to the pedals. Perhaps my stroke will improve a bit if I am clip free more often.

I do sometimes use the upstroke to pull the pedal on hills, and when pulling the trailer in windy conditions. If nothing else, this article will make me more aware of my stroke and improving it when in street shoes. I'm still going to wear my cycling shoes when I can. Nike makes "barefoot" running shoes that provide no support so you can strengthen muscles in your feet. Those shoes wont make me stop wearing shoes with good support. This article won't make me stop being lazy and wearing my clipless shoes

I am definitely going clip free this winter. Last year I had pedals with clips on both sides and I froze my toes on cold mornings. this year I'm wearing my boots and using the platform side of my Shimano PDM324s.

noisebeam

I find being clipped in helps greatly when climbing hills, especially when I stand up. I definitely pull up on the pedals and definitely get benefit from doing so. Same with accelerating from stops. It's also nice to shift sometimes to a more pulling up mode to rest the pushing down muscles (when not spinning smoothly)

I think there is anti-clipless bias not because of the clipped in factor, but because of the 'want to be a normal person' factor, which means wearing normal shoes and doing things as normally as a non-cyclist.

That is not a problem with clipless, it is a problems with the current clipless products available and the type that many cyclists choose to purchase.

I use recessed clipless pedals on sandals and normal shoe looking shoes. There are even models that look like sneakers and some with more or less flexible soles. When one leaves the door of one's house, unless living on a beach area, one needs to put on a shoe. I put on the sandal or normal looking shoe with a hidden recessed cleat. I'm comfortable and can walk around just fine, I've even hiked in them (where the stiff sole is an advantage). The most common question is not how can you wear those cycling shoes walking around, but 'Wow, you can clip in with those?" "Really, where is the cleat?"

Al

spokenword

I'd bet on this not being the case. I first learned to ride bikes on platforms and rode platforms for years before going to a road bike with a clipless system. Platform pedals have always felt sloppy to me and a clip-in definitely felt much more efficient and stable. I prefer spinning pedals with all of my leg muscles to letting my feet slide all over the place.

I think Mr. Petersen is devising erroneous explanations from pre-determined conclusions. This statement:

only applies if you're riding fixed, where the momentum of the bike will propel your legs forward. Locking your feet into pedals will not force your muscles to do anything that you don't want to do. So your muscles will still learn how to properly pedal and will be trained to use more muscle groups as part of the pedal stroke.

With that said, I do like have combo platform/SPD pedals for the simplicity of being able to ride it with street shoes or clipless shoes depending on mood and timing, but for anything that isn't riding around town (which I know Mr. Petersen always encourages his riders to do, but in practice, nobody rides a Rivendell as a 'beater') I prefer clipless.

Bikingtoteach

I like having the option of working different muscles that you can in clipless that would seem impossible to do on platforms, although the circular motion theory makes total sence.
When my toes start to freeze rock solid in the AM I plan to put platforms back on and file down a pair of old baseball hightop cleats?? We will see how it works, the baseball cleats are large so will fit several pair of big warm sox.

grolby

On the one hand, I think that Grant is wrong to suggest that riding clipless is not a simple way improve your efficiency. On the other hand, I think that he's right to suggest that the benefits of clipless pedals are pretty marginal for most recreational riders, and that they might be just as happy with plain ol' regular pedals. I switched my commuter from two-sided "commuter" pedals with a clip on one side and flat on the other to plain flat pedals. It was great! Much more convenient for riding the short distances that make up most of my current miles on the bike. When I went on a tour recently, I installed PowerGrips and haven't removed them, since it's a bit of a pain to do so, but I might get around to it before winter.

I do like some form of foot retention for longer distances, but it's more about keeping my feet on the pedals than efficiency. And of course, I'll take whatever I can get on my road bike - clipless all the way!

Also, pedantic posting of the day - this is a platform pedal:

Note one-sided design intended only to be used with toe clips.

And THIS is a plain or flat pedal, double-sided, with no devices for foot retention:


Platform = one-sided toeclip pedals. A two-sided pedal being used without clips and straps or other retention devices is a plain or flat pedal. Yeah, it's pedantic, but we gotta draw the line somewhere . Anyway, carry on!

fordfasterr

I rode fixed and platformed today =)

Feels good to me !

oboeguy

Explain to me exactly how not being able to fully control the pedal on the backstroke trains you to pedal in circles? The dude is arm-waving his way to a obviously false conclusion.

Flimflam

Are you nuts?

I ride SPDs, I think it's way more efficient for the reasons stated above. Being able to pull to rest, or full circle cycle, pushing up a hill is nice, and it just feels way better. Other than missing a clip-in once, and not clipping in properly another time, I've never once had a shin-cracking pedal slam since going to SPDs, and those two issues were my fault, not the system.

I also like being able to hop the back of the bike when clipped in (easy to just haul up on the pedals), if I need to ever hop a curb/hole quickly.

I *can* ride quick on platforms, but not nearly as able to sustain the work in my legs as it gets very tiring on the quads. I rode to Cambridge (~100k) on platforms, and later did the Ride for Heart with them - although to contrast by my own experience - I was pulling an average of 17mph which was around the same as my speeds riding with SPDs to Niagara Falls.

gear

After a decade of riding with nothing but clipless pedals and before that toe clips; I took a spin on my nephew's bike which had platform pedals, this was the first time I used platform pedals since I was a kid. Both my feet came up off the pedals on almost every stroke.

ax0n

I ride both. Honestly, I don't think I'm any more efficient on clipless, but I can pull up with them (I choose to do so only when I really need it).

I leave the craptastic test platforms on the double-sided SPD pedals that I use on my hybrid just so that I have a bike that I can either commute clipless on or just drag outside and take for a quick spin. Even those horrible platforms aren't that bad. I've averaged 18 miles per hour in tennis shoes over my 14 mile workbound trip. My PB workbound average is 19.2 but it's usually in that 16-18 MPH range regardless of if I ride my hybrid or road bike, both usually clipped in for my commute.

My mountain bike just has plain old resin platforms on it, and they seem to do just fine.

If anything, I'd say the main benefit that the SPDs offer me is that I can relax my leg on the upstroke more, and re-position myself easier without sliding around on the pedals. Dare I say it's more of a laziness thing that makes for one less thing to think and worry about?

chephy

All my bikes have some sort of foot retention system to prevent slippage. Either clipless pedals or toeclips. I don't feel secure riding bare platforms.

And yes, I do feel the efficiency benefit of clipless pedals when accelerating or climbing hills. But the main reason to have them is to secure the feet.

UmneyDurak

Yeah, I think he is jumping to conclusions and using "fuzzy" logic to support his point. When you are clipped in you don't just magically start pedaling in circles. It's not a fixie. You still have to learn to to pull through the bottom of the circle and push over the top, producing a smooth circular motion. Being clipped in allows more control over the pedals and prevents your fit from slipping. Without clipless in theory you could do it, but it won't be as efficient. Personally I think he found a nitch market and now is trying his best to make it sound like it's the way to go, and that anyone who doesn't do what he says is wasting their money.

genec

Tend to agree. Higher RPMs are easier clipped in as well. And for distance cycling, the ability to shift to different muscle groups is key to easing possible cramps... clipping in helps there too.

I do experience both sides of the argument though as my cruiser has only platform pedals and it works quite well for short distances.

My commuter has combo pedals that allow either clipless or platform use... and my road bike is strictly clip in. (see the transition... )

kchunks

I pulled my SPD off because I commute and hate changing my shoes. I have a relatively flat 7 mile each way commute. This is what I noticed. The platforms felt a little weird the first day but I made it in the same time as I ever do (actually on the low end of my average time window). The next day, the felt just fine. I have not gone back to my SPD. However, when I plan to just go for a long ride I will probably put the SPD on. For commuting, though, I like the platform so I can just jump off and walk to class. My commute would have to change a lot in both difficulty and length for me to go back to SPD. Also, almost every time I talk to people touring on bikes they seem to be using platform pedals. It boils down to whatever works for you.

pinkrobe

I think this topic comes up every other month, but I've got some time to kill...

Grant is entitled to his opinion, but it almost sounds like he doesn't ride with clipless pedals himself. There's a fair bit of evidence showing that clipless pedals are more efficient than flat pedals in almost any situation. Even if you ignore that, there's a mountain of anecdotes and personal experience that contradicts what he's saying. Seated/standing climbing, sprinting, high cadence spinning, curb jumping, etc. can all benefit from being able to apply force to the pedals for more of the pedal stroke. This isn't racing either - I have hills on my commuting route, plus traffic to keep up with, potholes to leap and it's all easier with clipless. Once in a while I have to ride without clipless, and it's definitely harder because I don't get to use all the leg muscle at my disposal.

jmeier

Forte (performance) Campus pedals on all of my and my wifes bikes, they are cheap, light, well tensioned out of the box and I can wear whatever shoe I want. I like to clip in whenever I can for a few reasons; first, I feel more secure and that makes me more willing to crank it up when going up hills or passing, second, I can stretch my calves and quads while on the bike, and third, I can move the bike around with a clipped in pedal at stop lights and crosswalks. I also wear "street" looking shoes that I can spend the whole day walking around in and no-one notices that they are "bike" shoes (unless they ride and see the big "C" on the side...)

but if I'm just tooling to the grocery store, I can just as easily wear flip-flops (though me seat adjustment feels funny and my feet come off on the upstroke).

2c

hairlessbill

I like Grant and his Rivendell but I love my SPD's more. Until I see start seeing pro cyclists switching to platforms and actual scientific data supporting speed/efficiency versus clipless pedals I'll stick to keeping platforms strictly for tooling around town. That being said, I did use a set of platforms/clips/straps on a self-supported 2 week tour and didn't miss my clipless pedals after the first day. I would never ride my mountain bike without SPD's though.

ralph12

I haven't ever used clipless, but I can definitely notice the difference between plain pedals and pedals with toe clips and straps. I find it is way less effort to pedal because I can pull up, and it lets me stand on tough uphills

CastIron

I test this theory every now and again. Seems to me the difference is whether you actually intend to move underway with any speed. Personally, I believe playing in traffic means hammering it,so I really make use of the cleats. But for dawdling along (and that has it's place) the platforms have their place. Also good in deep snow. Having said that, I'm beginning to think Mr. Peterson is trying to propagate a cult more than sound cycling practices. Platforms are cheap, so no harm in trying.

squeakywheel

I'm slow in the winter regardless of the pedal choice.