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-   -   Ten lessons from the great cycling cities. (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/798696-ten-lessons-great-cycling-cities.html)

no motor? 02-14-12 11:45 AM

Ten lessons from the great cycling cities.
 
http://daily.sightline.org/2012/01/2...nd-high-heels/ Ran across this earlier and figured it's worth sharing.

tjspiel 02-14-12 12:53 PM

Liked the comment about more infrastructure leading to more cyclists which in turn creates more advocates which leads to more infrastructure.

I also liked the concept of making streets look like a back yard. It turns the relationship between drivers and other users of the street on its ear. As it stands in the U.S today streets are the domain of cars, anything else is tolerated at best. But, if they were redesigned to favor other types of uses, - making the cars feel like the interlopers, it would be a much better thing.

justadude 02-14-12 01:21 PM

I liked this, directly quoted from the same report by Christine Grant: "A recent public health campaign in Copenhagen reminded residents that, “you’re safer on your bike than on the sofa!”."

alan s 02-14-12 01:22 PM

I'd rather see more people on public transportation, such as buses or trains, than on bikes. The last thing I want are bike traffic jams like those shown in the pictures. It would suck a lot of enjoyment and efficiency out of bike commuting. The worst day of the year for bike commuting is bike to work day.

Mark Stone 02-14-12 02:49 PM

What a great article! I appreciate item #3, Bicycling is Safer than a Sofa. So true.

boro 02-14-12 05:32 PM

It's cute, but 'safer than a sofa' is part and parcel with the condescending marketing that isn't always effective. You don't cycle places? Well you must be fat and lazy.

I see what they're trying to do - combat the perception that cycling is dangerous while simultaneously pointing out its health benefits. However, I think the message comes out a little garbled.


Almost 40 percent of Copenhagen residents meet their minimum exercise requirements by cycling to work or school.
That's a lot more effective. Telling people that they can commute to work while simultaneously fulfilling the dreaded 'exercise requirement', all without having to don the spandex uniform... that's an effective message.

People naturally want to do the thing that's easier, so demonstrate how bicycle commuting can actually be easier in the end.

giantcfr1 02-14-12 09:29 PM

I'm happy my city was photographed as examples. Makes me feel good.

Medic Zero 02-14-12 11:22 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 13851197)
I'd rather see more people on public transportation, such as buses or trains, than on bikes. The last thing I want are bike traffic jams like those shown in the pictures. It would suck a lot of enjoyment and efficiency out of bike commuting. The worst day of the year for bike commuting is bike to work day.

I kind of hate to say it, but I agree. I miss working nights when on my ride in I was the only cyclist on the road, and on the way home my commute was the opposite direction of the other bike commuters. From where I live to where I work and go to school in Seattle I'm channeled by the terrain into a route half the cyclists on the north end of the city are taking, and I'm shooting to arrive at 0800.

Mark Stone 02-15-12 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by Medic Zero (Post 13853456)
I kind of hate to say it, but I agree. I miss working nights when on my ride in I was the only cyclist on the road, and on the way home my commute was the opposite direction of the other bike commuters. From where I live to where I work and go to school in Seattle I'm channeled by the terrain into a route half the cyclists on the north end of the city are taking, and I'm shooting to arrive at 0800.

In El Paso it's nice to have the streets to myself when I'm on my bike. I love seeing the occasional fellow commuter and feeling the "brotherhood". I don't think we'll ever be overcrowded with bike commuters here, and I have to admit part of me is happy about that. However, the other half of me sincerely wishes that a lot more people were bicycling here - perhaps with proper planning the bike traffic jams could be avoided.

Micheal Blue 02-15-12 08:13 AM

Nicely written article.

SuncoastChad 02-15-12 08:26 AM

Nice article and it does paint an interesting picture of what is possible. However, doing snap shots of particular cities and even areas of cities can give a false impression of the state of bicycle commuting - even in the showcased cities.

For example, I loved the pictures of Kyoto. I live in Japan for 7 years - but I lived on the island of Okinawa. We had great roads and it was not a particularly dangerous area to ride - but very heavy traffic and traffic circles were a challenge. Fortunately, the speed limit was 50 KPH on most of the island. We were expected to filter to the front of the traffic lines at lights and I was often allowed to pass and weave through stalled traffic with a wave, flash of the lights, and a smile. Eye contact was real important.

Italy, where I lived for 3 years, was a different ball of wax. The drivers were, for the most part, careful around bicycles. Towns were pretty easy to get around in, but the streets in the area I lived were often cobbled - and that can be a challenge. The rural roads were narrow with no shoulder at all in most places. The better traveled roads and strada had wider shoulders but the vehicular traffic was moving at pretty high speed so the cyclist had best hold a pretty good line. I lived near Brindisi, on the Adriatic, and the area was pretty rural. It was pretty cool having a farmer wave at you to jump behind his APE cart and motor pace (draft) on the way to work!!

fietsbob 02-15-12 11:05 AM

But the US, puts its money into Empire building instead..Like 700+ military Bases abroad
and the A Embassy/Castle fortress in Baghdad.. Other peoples Countries.

AND TORE UP Tracks for electric Streetcars to let GM sell more Diesel busses .
with a monopoly power.

aircraft carrier battle groups are an example of the publicly funded way of moving people
where the budget is never cut, only increased.

lawrencehare 02-15-12 01:32 PM

I particularly like #5. In our little community here we have perhaps, 50% of houses with young children. Cats, children, people walking dogs roam the streets and a good number of folks use bicycles. This weekend while out picking up the newspaper I heard a great roaring of engines and looking up the hill on which we live I was greeted by this kid in a Porsche absolutely belting down the street. At the bottom he pulled a U-turn and then rocketed up the street glaring at me the while - how dare I look as if I disapprove of his driving his expensive car like that! So the homeowners association is looking at speed bumps - and NONE of us want them. But we do not know how to stop these people. Number 5 looks like the first alternative I have seen - but will we think seriously of it?

SuncoastChad 02-15-12 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by lawrencehare (Post 13855652)
I particularly like #5. In our little community here we have perhaps, 50% of houses with young children. Cats, children, people walking dogs roam the streets and a good number of folks use bicycles. This weekend while out picking up the newspaper I heard a great roaring of engines and looking up the hill on which we live I was greeted by this kid in a Porsche absolutely belting down the street. At the bottom he pulled a U-turn and then rocketed up the street glaring at me the while - how dare I look as if I disapprove of his driving his expensive car like that! So the homeowners association is looking at speed bumps - and NONE of us want them. But we do not know how to stop these people. Number 5 looks like the first alternative I have seen - but will we think seriously of it?

I've been known to find a sports radar gun and check speeds in my neighborhood. A camera with pics of the offending driver might make them think that just maybe someone is paying attention to their JA style of driving. Maybe not!! And, it's public space - nothing at all illegal about taking a pic of the car and driver.

atbman 02-15-12 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 13851197)
I'd rather see more people on public transportation, such as buses or trains, than on bikes. The last thing I want are bike traffic jams like those shown in the pictures. It would suck a lot of enjoyment and efficiency out of bike commuting. The worst day of the year for bike commuting is bike to work day.

You seem to assume that your preferred option of more public transport would reduce the numbers of people interrupting your cycle commuting. Have you ever seen the bike parks at Dutch railway stations?

locolobo13 02-15-12 05:45 PM

"Cyclists also save city governments money by reducing traffic congestion, stormwater run-off, air pollution, and road maintenance expenditures."

I get the part about reducing traffic congestion, air pollution and maybe road maintenance. But how would increased bicycles reduce stormwater run-off?

fietsbob 02-15-12 06:10 PM

Would reduce the lube Oil leaking out of all those cars , that gets washed into rivers
with the storm run off ..

atbman 02-15-12 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by locolobo13 (Post 13856782)
"Cyclists also save city governments money by reducing traffic congestion, stormwater run-off, air pollution, and road maintenance expenditures."

I get the part about reducing traffic congestion, air pollution and maybe road maintenance. But how would increased bicycles reduce stormwater run-off?

10 bikes to one car-parking space reduces the land area covered by asphalt which, in turn, increases the amount of uncovered land which, in turn, increases the water absorption capacity of the area, which, in turn, slows down the transfer of storm water into rivers, storm channels, etc., which, in turn, reduces the risk of flooding.

tjspiel 02-15-12 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by locolobo13 (Post 13856782)
"Cyclists also save city governments money by reducing traffic congestion, stormwater run-off, air pollution, and road maintenance expenditures."

I get the part about reducing traffic congestion, air pollution and maybe road maintenance. But how would increased bicycles reduce stormwater run-off?

I doubt that it does. If you had so many people riding their bikes that it allowed you to have less auto infrastructure then maybe... but only to the extent that the reduced auto infrastructure is not offset by the additional amount of cycling infrastructure.

gerv 02-15-12 10:05 PM


Originally Posted by tjspiel (Post 13857110)
I doubt that it does. If you had so many people riding their bikes that it allowed you to have less auto infrastructure then maybe... but only to the extent that the reduced auto infrastructure is not offset by the additional amount of cycling infrastructure.

Only thing is that the cycling infrastructure takes up a lot less space. You can move an enormous amount of bicycle traffic down a 8 foot lane. Probably the equivalent of 6 car lanes. Also think about the parking infrastructure. You can fit about 20 bikes in a space reserved for cars.

I know this because if you visit my downtown, you'll noticed that every second building is a car park.

tjspiel 02-15-12 11:33 PM


Originally Posted by gerv (Post 13857752)
Only thing is that the cycling infrastructure takes up a lot less space. You can move an enormous amount of bicycle traffic down a 8 foot lane. Probably the equivalent of 6 car lanes. Also think about the parking infrastructure. You can fit about 20 bikes in a space reserved for cars.

I know this because if you visit my downtown, you'll noticed that every second building is a car park.

All true, but I think we're a long way from any U.S. city tearing down a parking ramp or making an existing street narrower because of the amount of people they've managed to get on bikes. A city might make a street narrower for purposes of traffic calming which may in fact encourage more cycling.

SurlyLaika 02-16-12 12:45 AM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 13851197)
I'd rather see more people on public transportation, such as buses or trains, than on bikes. The last thing I want are bike traffic jams like those shown in the pictures. It would suck a lot of enjoyment and efficiency out of bike commuting. The worst day of the year for bike commuting is bike to work day.

Because bikes are so wide you can't maneuver around em?

SurlyLaika 02-16-12 12:50 AM


Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 13854982)
But the US, puts its money into Empire building instead..Like 700+ military Bases abroad
and the A Embassy/Castle fortress in Baghdad.. Other peoples Countries.

AND TORE UP Tracks for electric Streetcars to let GM sell more Diesel busses .
with a monopoly power.

aircraft carrier battle groups are an example of the publicly funded way of moving people
where the budget is never cut, only increased.

I see where you're going with this, but could you try using more complete sentences? It'd help me understand your ideas better.

alan s 02-16-12 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by SurlyLaika (Post 13858115)
Because bikes are so wide you can't maneuver around em?

I can maneuver around other bike riders in most cases. Probably not so if bike traffic increases dramatically. I'd be forced to ride at the pace of the slowest rider ahead of me.

no motor? 02-16-12 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by atbman (Post 13856966)
10 bikes to one car-parking space reduces the land area covered by asphalt which, in turn, increases the amount of uncovered land which, in turn, increases the water absorption capacity of the area, which, in turn, slows down the transfer of storm water into rivers, storm channels, etc., which, in turn, reduces the risk of flooding.

This has been tried for motorcycle parking with stiff resistance. Great an idea as it is, I can't see anything that makes that much sense happening around me.


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