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Originally Posted by caloso
(Post 13964570)
Not to mention tree roots and driveway cutouts. Plus, concrete is much less forgiving than asphalt. I too run on the road rather than the sidewalks. And pedestrians should face traffic. So no, I don't think it's weird.
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Originally Posted by onehappypanda
(Post 13965604)
Agree to disagree. I see no difference between running in the bike lane and running in the road- both come with risks and you have to be aware of what's around you and prepared to get out of the way, but they're also both more practical for a lot of runners rather than being in a crowded busted-up sidewalk.
Complaining about runners with iPods and dogs is about on par with complaining about bikers with iPods who don't have proper lights. Both are road hazards (and jerks) but they don't mean that everyone running or biking should stay off the road. Given that it is clearly marked for bicycle use only joggers should stay out of it. |
Originally Posted by enigmaT120
(Post 13966431)
This. Though if a bike was coming I would get out of the way, onto the sidewalk. I don't know why concrete feels harder to run on than asphalt. It doesn't make sense.
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Originally Posted by weshigh
(Post 13966577)
I don't like that logic. If you are riding in the street next to a bike lane, but not in it, and a car hits you... Does that mean you are at fault? I know there are other rules about peds in the street etc..
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 13971366)
Bikes in traffic lanes are legal.
Pedestrians in bike lanes are illegal. |
Originally Posted by frpax
(Post 13964951)
I've encountered joggers running toward me in the bike lane. Specifically, On Guadalupe Rd. near Kiwanis Park in Tempe.
It's fun for me, actually. I act like I don't see them and it's fun to watch them jump out of the way. |
Originally Posted by WolfsBane
(Post 13974971)
1. No excuse... Period. Designated bicycle lanes, are for bicycle transit use ONLY, (does not include automobiles and delivery vehicles that park for a short period of time for delivery in the absence of appropriate adjacent parking to a business). Just because some people are starting to take certain liberties based on their own preference or opinion, does not make the practice safe or legal.
And the doctrine of last clear chance aside, if a pedestrian gets hit by a cyclist while they're in the bike lane and there was a sidewalk present have no one to blame but themselves. And if they're the one's who claim that the asphalt is "easier" on the knees. Then maybe they need to apply pressure to get jogger/runner friendly sidewalks built, or public tracks.
Originally Posted by WolfsBane
(Post 13974971)
2. If you see a cyclist transiting against the normal flow of traffic, such occurrences should be reported as would be the case with any other traffic violation or action that could pose a safety risk to himself, other cyclists, or the traffic adjacent to that lane. Remember, cyclists are REQUIRED to transit in a manner consistent with the flow of normal traffic, (in other words, are supposed to be part of the normal flow of traffic), and not an entity apart. Some states are seriously starting to consider requiring that any cyclist transiting on public roads to be required to have a current form of identification. If you get stopped by a law enforcement officer in those states, because you are committing an infraction, you don't get talked to, and later let go home. You are given a citation, and if warranted, you will be arrested and taken into custody.
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Originally Posted by Kojak
(Post 13975261)
Sharing, it's a good concept to teach to your children. ......... that, and I don't want to live in a society where we expect our law enforcement officers to issue tickets to someone out for a bit of exercise.
Beyond that, y'all are just getting angry over something that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. If someone is jogging, slide around them... it's pretty easy. |
Originally Posted by muu
(Post 13975525)
Running on concrete sucks, I can completely understand why these people are on the bike lanes. If they're doing things right they should see bikers coming toward them and have the common sense to get the f out of the way. Back when I did a lot of running that's what I did, same when I'm on a trail and you come up to a bunch of MTB'ers. This should be obvious from a safety perspective, but I guess that gets blown into the wind for most people until the moment they get hurt.
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Originally Posted by Scheherezade
(Post 13976194)
If we expect cars to share the road with us, we can share the bike lane with a jogger or two. Cars travel 2-4 times faster than a bike normally; bikes travel 2 times faster than a jogger normally.
There are many reasons why a jogger might use the road, but safety and joint health can be primary reasons. As far as I know, it is perfectly legal to jog and/or walk on the side of the road in most areas. How does the "get the f*** on the sidewalk!" comment make you feel as a law abiding cyclist? And how many joggers/runners/walkers do you think are silently or not cursing the cyclist for "ruining" their run/jog/walk simply for having been in their bike lane? |
Originally Posted by Mr Danw
(Post 13976799)
Is the road just for cars?
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 13976866)
The road is for all vehicles. The bike lane is for bikes only. The sidewalk is for pedestrians only. What's so hard to understand?
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Originally Posted by Cog_wild
(Post 13977110)
sidewalks are built for pedestrians, bike lanes for bikes. am I missing something here?
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Originally Posted by no motor?
(Post 13982605)
That's a good point, I don't know if it's legal to jog or walk in the roadway. What is the law here? And would a flat paved area created for foot traffic that is located roughly 6 feet from the roadway have any bearing on the legality of foot traffic on a roadway?
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I think someone doesn't know how to use the multi-quote function.
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Originally Posted by ben4345
(Post 13985220)
I think someone doesn't know how to use the multi-quote function.
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Not a problem here. I think I am the only person stupid or crazy enough to run in Bangkok heat. But now that I have a bike I don't have to run.
The biggest problem here is old cyclists riding the wrong way. But they are easy to avoid. Traffic doesn't move all that fast here. For once traffic jams work in my favour. |
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 13985212)
I'd like to know that as well.
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Originally Posted by ben4345
(Post 13985220)
I think someone doesn't know how to use the multi-quote function.
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 13985207)
Again, as has been asked are there any scientific studies to back up this claim?
Determining Hardness and Elastic Modulus of Asphalt by Nanoindentation by Rafiqul A. Tarefder, (corresponding author), M.ASCE, (Assistant Professor, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131 E-mail: tarefder@unm.edu), Arif M. Zaman, (Graduate Research Assistant and Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131. E-mail: arif@unm.edu), and Waheed Uddin, M.ASCE, (Professor of Civil Engineering, Univ. of Mississippi, University, MS 38677-1848. E-mail: cvuddin@olemiss.edu) International Journal of Geomechanics, Vol. 10, No. 3, May/June 2010, pp. 106-116, (doi http://dx.doi.org/10.1061/(ASCE)GM.1943-5622.0000048) Purchase this Article/Access full text Purchase Subscription Permissions for Reuse View Issue Table of Contents Document type: Journal Paper Abstract: Nanoindentation is a relatively new technique which has been used to measure nanomechanical properties of surface layers of bulk materials and of thin films. In this study, micromechanical properties such as hardness and Young’s modulus of asphalt binders and asphalt concrete are determined by nanoindentation experiments. Indentation tests are conducted on a base binder and two polymer-modified performance grade (PG) binders such as PG-70-22 and PG76-28. In addition, two Superpave asphalt mixes such as SP-B and SP-III are designed using these PG binders, and the corresponding mixes are compacted to prepare asphalt concrete. Aggregate, matrix (Materials Passing No. 4 sieve) and mastic (Materials Passing No. 200 sieve) phases of each asphalt concrete sample are indented using both Berkovich and Spherical indenters. In nanoindentation, an indenter penetrates into asphalt material and the load (milli-Newton) and the depth (nanometers) of indentation are recorded continuously. Indentation load versus displacement data are analyzed using Oliver and Pharr method to measure hardness and Young’s modulus. The unloading data of base binder is a straight line and therefore could not be analyzed using Oliver and Pharr’s method. However, the indentation data of the PG grade binders are successfully analyzed. Young’s modulus value is less than 3 GPa for mastic, 3 to 12 GPa for matrix, and greater than 12 GPa for aggregate studied herein. Based on the hardness data, mastic is 2 to 15 times softer than matrix materials, and matrix is 10 times softer than aggregate materials. The fact that the properties of the mastic can be measured while in the mixture, this study has great potential for realistic characterization of asphalt mixture components. In this study, spherical indenter is found to be suitable for asphalt binders based on the fact that the spherical indenter produces higher indentation depths than the Berkovich indenter. The study contributes significantly to the use of nanoindentation for transportation material characterization. ASCE Subject Headings: Asphalts Binders (material) Concrete Micromechanics Nanotechnology Young’s modulus |
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 13985207)
Again, as has been asked are there any scientific studies to back up this claim?
Let me be more specific. I agree with you that if I see a bicyclist coming up to me, on the side of the road, I should move. I do. Based on what I've read in this thread, many of you find it funny to make runners dive for cover when you come by. Do you not see this as exactly the same mindset that you all feel victimized by with motorists? So, based on your astute logic of right and wrong, if I see a cyclist on the sidewalk, I'm allowed to attempt to do gross bodily harm to him in the name of "Sidewalks are for pedestrians only!" Of course not, stop being so singleminded in your righteousness. Much as there is room for bicyclists, even on roads without bike lanes, there is room for conscientiousness runners in bike lanes. I fail to see how someone as smart as yourself cannot fathom this, let alone agree that we're dealing with extremes that hurt everybody. Sidewalks, mind you, were never made with the intention of running, or even valid "healthy" walking. It originated back to what, 1660. I'm not even sure why I'm wasting time asking you to show courtesy to fellow cyclists who also run for their health. |
Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 13985317)
Yeah, because that wastes valuable webpage space and kills kittens :rolleyes:
it's killing the kittens?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! No0o00o0o0o0oo0oo0o0o0o0o00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 13985209)
As far as I know, only IF there is NO sidewalk present. IF there is a sidewalk present then pedestrians belong there and NOT in the bike lane.
And how many joggers/runners/walkers do you think are silently or not cursing the cyclist for "ruining" their run/jog/walk simply for having been in their bike lane? From Minnesota statues: Subd. 5.Walk on left side of roadway. Pedestrians when walking or moving in a wheelchair along a roadway shall, when practicable, walk or move on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder giving way to oncoming traffic. Where sidewalks are provided and are accessible and usable it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk or move in a wheelchair along and upon an adjacent roadway. Those three are the big ifs. I've walked on plenty of sidewalks that were neither much accessible or usable without using adjacent private land. I'd imagine a statue like this is could be liberally interpreted by joggers, much like the "as far right as practical" law is interpreted by VCers. |
Originally Posted by Chris_in_Miami
(Post 13974493)
Not a problem for me since my city put in separate a jogging lane & a dog walking lane. The problem now is that the dog walking lane is filling up with people in those silly bouncy shoes, and dogs love to chase them. The bouncy shoe lane won't be done for another few years.
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 13985145)
I've heard this claim before, have there been any actual scientific studies done that prove or disprove this claim?
I CAN see runners disliking decrepit sidewalks where the the concrete slabs are all in upheaval. Don in Austin |
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