Improper Bike "Fit"?
 

So since this is the commuting section of the forum, I got to ask, does anyone else break the "traditional" bike fitting rules?

Since there is a lot of stop and go, between the lights, getting stuck in traffic, and the like, I always have set my seat to be the determining factor in which bike to get. Not the traditional top tube method where you need to "get off" your seat to touch the ground. That way I can put my foot down on pavement with the bike at a slight angle to one side without having to get off the seat every time I stop.

I was wondering if many people do that or something similar to handle the stop and go of traffic or not?

Jim

I'm riding a Schwinn cruiser 7-speed. Yeah, it isn't fitted!! I still have a ball.

"Break the "traditional" bike fitting rules"? What are you talking about?

I always put my foot on the ground without getting off the saddle when I have to wait for the light. However, I don't see why this waiting posture should immediately imply an improperly fit bike. My bike is fit perfectly, in full accordance with "traditional" bike fitting rules (in fact, I believe my seatpost is extended a bit higher than "traditional" rules require). Yet, I have no problem reaching to the ground with my toes without getting off the saddle.

In general case this will, of course, depend on how far the BB is from the ground and how long your crank is. But for a typical road bike proper "traditional" fit should not preclude anyone from being able to put their toes on the ground without getting off the saddle. My bike is actually a cyclocross[-ish] one, which usually means a greater BB-to-ground distance, but I have no problems with this anyway.

On my bike, when I support it with my toes, I don't even have to lean it much. Putting my entire foot on the ground would require a notably greater amount of lean, of course.

I can imagine that a person with some medical condition that restricts his/her ability to support their weight with their toes or pivot their foot downwards might have problems using this waiting technique. And, as a consequence, such person might opt for lower seatpost position, resulting in an improperly fit bike. But other than that I don't see where the idea of "improper fit" could come from.

P.S. If one's wearing "attached" cycling shoes, getting off the saddle to wait for a light usually means having to perform a straddling start afterwards. This is a major no-no in my book. Straddling start is reserved for children learning to ride a bicycle, and for women wearing non-cycling clothing. Cyclists don't do straddling starts. For an adult, properly equipped cyclist straddling start is considered an embarrassing thing to do.

I guess if your knees aren't in pain, then your fit is okay.

What does this mean, "straddling start"?

1) "Straddle" the bike by putting the top tube between your legs
2) Put your foot on the pedal on the other side (that pedal should be located somewhere along its downstroke path)
3) Push the pedal (the bike starts moving), lift yourself and place your butt on the saddle

Why is it wrong? It's the normal way to start up with a proper seat height, isn't it?

+1

I believe so, unless your a track cyclist, then you got some fancy metal contraption to hold you up to straight till you start pedaling. Overwise I've never seen a road biker, at a real race or in person start any other way.

Jim

Er... No. The normal way to start up is as follows:

1) Grab the bar and put your foot on the pedal on the same side as yourself (the pedal should normally be at its bottom point)
2) Give the bike some forward momentum and simultaneously put your weight on the pedal and swing your other leg over the rear wheel, thus putting yourself in the saddle
3) Start pedaling

That's the "cowboy mount". The "straddle start" as you've defined it is perfectly valid and lots of people use it.

What would not be valid (IMO) is if the straddle start meant that you could reach the ground with both feet while in the saddle.

- Scott

Your now talking about getting on a horse. When your completely off your bike. Something that would be quite impractical doing on the road at every red light.

Jim

You dismount and stand beside the bike at stop lights? Aside from that, why is that a better method and why is the "normal" procedure childish?

I'm also very confused. Why is it improper and childish to straddle your top tube when stopped? I have absolutely no problem with this and am still in full control of my bike. My bike is fitted properly and I have trouble reaching the ground with my toes when fully stopped so I straddle it.

Again, what is the problem here?

I teach bike safety courses in my city and we teach people to straddle their bikes when stopped.

That's why I don't dismount from my bike at stop lights at all! As I said above in great detail, I have no problem reaching the ground with my toes (and supporting my bike) without getting off the saddle. At the same time my seatpost is fitted in fully "traditional" way.

No. See above.

Hmm... I'd say for purely historical reasons. What it known as "women's bike" has greatly lowered top tube specifically to facilitate straddling start. Also, this kind of start is typically recommended for children learning to ride as the "easy" way to start up.

Meanwhile, I don't see any features on normal road bikes that would suggest that they should be straddled to start up.

But selecting the right bike frame starts with the assumption that you can stand over your top tube with clearance to "straddle start" with or without the lower bar like a women's bike. More clearance for mountain bikes due to the uneven starting surfaces, and less for road bikes where you have a flat pavement as your support.

The ultra lower bars on a women's bike tends to be more of a benefit if a women is riding with a skirt or dress on. The wife likes that just for that specific reason as she can wear any clothing she wants without worrying about it when we go biking.

Jim

I see it as more of an injury prevention measure, not a something that is specifically intended to facilitate straddling start.

That's exactly why I believe one should not have a problem supporting the road bike with one's toes without getting out of the saddle. (Yes, I understand that some people might naturally have trouble pivoting their foot sufficiently.)

Mountain bikes with their higher BB location is a different story. (Assuming that they are normally set up for a straight leg. Are they?)

How do you perform the cowboy start from a seated position?

I'll let you off the hook - you don't really need to answer because it's all based on an unusual and frankly silly advice. I only mention it because you were somewhat insulting during your pontification.

I don't. Seated start is not a straddling start. Since I didn't dismount, I don't have to mount at all :)

I actually agree. However, I believe that my pontification was no more obnoxious or insulting than various "rules" that are often thrown around in various cycling forums (referring both to "The Rules" as well as to any other "one true way" kind of rule). I was just trying my hand at it.

P.S. I'm still gonna stick to cowboy start though.

P.P.S. As much as I'm in awe of the excellent quality of technical articles on Sheldon Brown's web site, what they write about cowboy start is ridiculous nonsense, which is rather obvious to anyone who uses the technique.

Now you're talking sense. Good job :thumb:

And btw I agree, if Sheldon Brown was about the usual thing you see about it stressing the pedals and bb and so on, it's incorrect in my humble opinion.

"I have no idea what you're talking about."

But, the other day I tried my wife's bike because it pedals so much easier than my old one. After a couple hundred yards my left hip was aching. The saddle was way too low and couldn't go higher. So long as my knees go within a few inches of straight I feel fine. More or less causes me problems. No idea if I'm breaking any rules, though.

This is one of those things that depends too much on the individual or bike to say that "all adults do this" and "only children do that." Bottom bracket height varies among road bikes, necessitating different saddle heights for proper fit.

At least for me, I can scrape the toe of a shoe while coasting, but have to lean too far to the side to be stable if I want to rest on one toe and my saddle. Good thing I don't have to impress anyone, 'cause I'm not changing how I do things.

does anyone else break the "traditional" bike fitting rules?

I don't know anyone that follows the traditional bike fitting rules anytime, anywhere.

Sure! let's argue over how to "properly" start pedaling from a dead stop. :crash:

Just do whatever feels right at the moment.

Been cycling in all disciplines for my entire adult life and have never heard such unfounded, ridiculous and arrogant mis-guidance. As a 25 year cycle-commuter/utility cyclist w/many, many unspported tours under my belt I've heard and tried many different techniques to facilitate maximum efficency from minimum motion. The one habit that was hardest to break was starting out w/t NDS pedal in the top/forward position. Realized that putting the torque on the chainring assembly on the DS would make better sense as there's more mass to distribute the stress. It's like trying to perfect an off-hand lay-up... all concentration and foot work. Took a while but it's 2nd nature now.

But, to come on a commuter forum as a relative newb and disallow and deride what are perfectly sound techniques. Certainly, one is free to opine on whatever one's belief happens to be...but the cowboy mount? That's one of the more silly suggestions I've seen here on BF in quite a while...especially when cycling under load.