Need advice on older shimano group.
 

Hello all,

I have a shimano 600 groupset from 1992 in my possession and would like to build a commuter out of a new cyclocross frame. Is there anything different about todays frames than the early 90's frames that I should make note of before purchasing a frame? The old group set came from a schwinn paramount that was upgraded to other parts and the shimano 600 group got put in a box in the garage. Within the box is a 7 speed 13-23 cassette and 7 speed down tube shifters. Is it possible to swap the 7 speed with a 9 speed and the down tubes to 9 speed bar ends and keep the shimano 600 RD,FD, and crank with new chain and cables? What about the bottom bracket compatibility with the old crank and new frame?

Also, I have been looking for steel frames in the $200-300 mark are there any that you would recommend? Surly cross check frames are around $480. I saw the nashbar X frame, although its alum, with a steel fork it may not be so bad, but again i'm not sure if the 1992 shimano 600 group is compatible with newer frames. Thanks for your help.

Nice groupset; don't know about the indexing compatibility issues... If the front derailer is a clap-on, then the new frame must have same seat tube diameter.
Why not look for a nice vintage steel road frame? You could probably do quite well for $200-300, certainly much better than what you can buy new.

I have looked at several steel vintage frames on ebay, but I wasn't sure if they had the option of taking a rear rack for some light grocery runs. I also wasn't sure if they could handle some light trails and such for my commute because that is what interests me to cyclocross frames.

Shimano 600 is good stuff.

A lot of the older "sport touring" frames had eyelets for fenders and racks, and those that originally specified 27" wheels can be converted to 700C and get a little fatter tire in them.

As previously mentioned, just make sure the seat tube diameter matches the clamp of the FD.

For the RD, indexing to 9 speeds should be fine...just switch out the cassette, shifters and chain as you mentioned.

EDIT: One thing to keep in mind is the range of your cassette..the RD may only be able to handle a certain capacity due to the cage length. As long as you do go to 34 teeth in the rear you'll be fine

It is my understanding that what you are proposing should work. I have a 105 crankset and FD from the same era (1055 groupset), and I'm successfully using it with a 9-speed cassette. This thread has some info from people doing something even closer to what you're doing.

Tangentially, you could use the 600 shifters in friction mode with a 9-speed cassette. Whatever you do, don't throw any of those parts away without offering them in C&V first! ;)

Thanks everyone. Yeah finding a nice steel frame has been taking a while to find. So any 9 speed 12-27 would work with the components? Also, iv'e noted that the seat tube must have the same diameter.

Would their be any issues with the bottom bracket diameter on a new frame fitting with the crank of the shimano 600?

If you're reusing the old bottom bracket, you're probably going to want to make sure the shell is the same size 68, 70, 73 mm, English or Italian threaded.

Thanks himespau. The post above I meant to ask, "So any 9 speed 11-34 would work with the components?"

Checking VeloBase, it looks like the RD from that time period had a max cog size of 28T.

P.S. Mmmm, tricolor... ;)

Wow thanks for that database from Velo Thermionic! It has the pictures and everything I need to know there about my RD. Now I just have to find a cassette that would work with some 9 speed bar ends and of course a steel frame in my budget.

Yep something like this. rack braze ons are standard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Bicycle...item5d3315e5b6

or this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-520-Tou...item1c25876501

Your rear hub is definitely spaced at 126mm, while modern road frames have 130mm rear spacing. So not only can you not put a full 9 speed cassette on it, you can't use it with a newer frame unless you add some axle spacers/washers (OK, maybe you could get away with squeezing a steel frame around it, but don't try forcing a 130mm aluminum or carbon frame to hold a 126 hub). More info on using more than 7 gears on that hub: http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#bodycompat

BTW, it's nice to hear others confidently predict that a 7s tricolor 600 RD could handle the extra ~5mm lateral width of a 9s cluster (http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html) -- maybe I should rethink my planned IG-to-HG upgrade for my earlier 600 rear hub, though I'd hate to set aside those great old 600 downtube shifters.

It doesn't deal with the tire size question, but if the bike doesn't have mounts for a rack you can use P-clamps. I resorted to them on my CX commuter, since I used a smaller rack and it just doesn't reach.

Where are you located? I would search Craigslist. You should be able to find something in the $150 to $200 range without much of a problem unless you live really remote. Then even if you need to get it powder-coated you are under budget.

I live in central WA. 3 hours east of Seattle. I've looked at CL in my area, but this isn't really a biking town and there is not much to choose from. I'd have to do the 3 hours to Seattle and 3 hours back. Also, there are a lot of complete bikes for sale, but I'm looking for just a frame to build one up with my old parts.

I wouldn't rule out a complete bike. It will make the search a lot easier and may not cost any more money.

Plus, if your parts are better, you can toss the other parts, or start the cycle all over again.

Fixed that for you

I went to the LBS today and the guy said I would not be able to run a 9 speed cassette with my RD because of the width of the 9 speed vs the 7 speed. He said my RD probably runs on 126 mm and a 9 speed would need 130 mm which you guys have confirmed already. He said running in friction mode would be an option also if I really wanted to put a 9 speed on.
Maybe I don't understand. Some are saying a 9speed cassette will work and others (LBS guy) are saying that it won't because of the 5 mm difference. Which is it? Either way friction is an option at this point. It just seems like a waste of good Ultegra gear if things aren't compatible.

We also talked about steel frames and he said I can get a surly Cross check for around $400, a Pake C-mute for around $300 or a soma frame for closer to $500 along with others.

if you have a shimano 600 tri-color RD it will shift 9 speeds just fine (and 10 i suppose).

Pfft, the derailleur doesn't know how wide your dropouts are. ;)

1) The wheel needs to fit in the frame. To get 9s on the rear, that means a 130mm rear hub (which could mean replacing the freehub body ala http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#transplant, adding 4mm of extra axle washers, and re-dishing the wheel**). You cannot put a 130mm hub in a 126mm aluminum or carbon frame, but you almost certainly can squeeze a 130mm hub in a 126mm steel frame, even if you don't bother cold-setting it to 130mm first.

2) The rear derailleur needs to be able to travel the full width of the cassette, Sheldon Brown said a non-Dura Ace 7s like you have should work fine. (http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#897)

Friction mode -- with a Shimano or SRAM 9s cassette, the Shimano 9s bar end shifters you mentioned will be fine.

-Peter

** Sheldon reports a 2nd hand report of someone putting 9 of 10 cogs from a 10s cassette on a 7s freehub and shifting with 10s levers: http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#897. That doesn't sound so great to me -- from what I understand, only SRAM tends to have cassettes where all the cogs can be removed individually, and SRAM 10s cassettes cost more than a 9s cassette and new freehub body.

Any cassette will work as long as the der cage has the tooth capacity and lateral swing.

A few years ago I built up a C'dale SR300 into a 1x9 climbing bike for the Dirty Dozen ride held in Pittsburgh every year( www.dannychew.com ). I used a Sugino 103mm track bb w/matching cranks and a 38t Rocket Ring w/a Paul Chainkeeper. On the rear a Sram 12x26 9sp cassette on a Shimano 32h Parallax hub. It was laced to a Sun M14 rim. Removed the 13t cog from the cassette and added a spacer and a 34t cog on the lower end. Used an Altus 34t cap. mtb der in combination w/an old Shimano bar end friction shifter probably made for 6 or 7 sp. The combo worked flawlessly.

Would think that a downtube friction system would've worked just as well. As you're using the fd as well, just make sure your st on your choice of frameset matches up w/it sizewise.