A Pleasant Surprise
 

On the way home last night, I pulled up at a stop light and noticed the car behind me signalling a right turn, so I moved left to let them by. As the car pulled up next to me, the woman driving stopped and rolled down the window. I braced myself for some verbal abuse.

Then she said "Thank you" and drove away :)

I have done this myself many times as long as they have a turn signal on and I have room to move over. I get plenty of thank you's and waves of appreciation!

Ditto. They usually freak at simple courtesies (spelling?). Maybe cuz most roadies around here are so into themselves and "high speed riding". If there's a line of traffic usually everyone in the line notices too!

The most acknowledgement I can recall receiving is a polite nod. Which is great.

But usually when I do this, the driver looks right through me.

I do this all the time as I ride a shoulder that doubles as a right turn lane at intersections. If the light is red I always get over next to the righthand lane of traffic to let the right turners through. Most I've ever gotten is the infrequent wave ... then again I'm not usually looking in their window trying to make eye contact.

Excellent! The next step is to learn to initially stop in a position that would allow right-turning cars to pass you like this without you even having to move left to let them by. In other words, even with no cars at the intersection, when pulling up to a red light stop far enough left to allow for this. As soon as it turns green move forward and right allowing thru traffic to pass you on the left.

Good job!

Serge

Why only do this "as long as they have a turn signal on and [you] have room to move over"?

Why would you not have room to move over? Because a car is to your left? If so, that indicates you stopped in the wrong position in the first place. If you got there first, and a car came next and stopped to your left, you stopped too far to the right. You should stop far enough left to force the next car that shows up (that's not turning right) to stop behind you, not next to you.

If the car was already stopped and you stopped to its right, then you should have stopped behind it. In either case, you should never be in a situation where you have no room to move over far enough to let right turners pass you on the right, unless the lane is too narrow to be safely shared by a car and bike side-by-side, which is very rare for a right lane at an intersection that allows thru traffic as well as right turns (which is the situation we're talking about).

Serge

#1 If they do not have a turn signal on I do not know they need to turn therefore I stay in their way.

#2 I do stop in the middle or clost to the middle of the lane. If after I stop, I notice the car behind me wanting to turn right, that is when I move over to the left to let them by. Does that make sense now?

I do this. About once/week someone pulls up on my right then proceeds to go straight when the light turns...

(No, there's not really a point to this post.)

Why do you need to know if they need to turn? If you are far enough left to give them room on your right to turn right, it shouldn't be an issue. If they're going straight, they'll stop behind you. If they're turning right, they'll pass you on the right and turn right. Regardless what the motorist behind you is planning on doing, your stopping position in the lane should be the same.

Stopping in the "middle of the lane" that is relatively wide means stopping at about the "right tire track" of cars going straight. Unless the lane is wide enough for right-turning cars to squeeze past cars stopped further to the left who are going straight, this is not far enough to the left to let the right-turning cars pass you on your right. In that case you should be stopped further to the left. Basically, if you have to move left from your initial stopped position to let right-turners turn right, then your initial stopped position is not far enough to the left.


Yikes! I've never had that happen. Perhaps you're stopping too far to the left?
Or is this in a lane from which left turns are also allowed? All of the above I have written assumes a straight-or-right lane, not a left-or-straight-or-right lane. In that case stopping near the left indicates your intent is to turn left, which makes stopping on your right and passing you on the right, even by motorists going straight when the light turns, to be appropriate. Especially if the left turn is not protected by a left arrow signal...

Serge

The most difficult part of my commute is a stop light with a combined right/straight lane that gives a green arrow to the right turners. I go straight. I used to move over to let them turn, then I stopped doing that because I ended up with a car going straight through the intersection to my right. Not a comfortable situation. Now when I am the lone vehicle going straight, I hop the curb to push the pedestrian cross button then turn around on the sidewalk and go to the end of the line. By the time I get to the end, the solid green usually appears and several right-turners have turned on the green arrow (solid red straight). Confusing!!!

Yes, on some roads when I stop, it is just a two lane road. Some of these lanes are are not wide enough for a car to be stopped and another car to put up along side and turn right. This is the case I am talking about. When I am stopped at a stituation like that (when I am in the center of the lane) and a car behind me wants to turn right, that is when I will move over to let them by.

This strategy runs the danger of leaving a car on your right that is moving straight ahead, stranding you inbetween traffic lanes, not a good place to be, and also illegal.

In my area there are many straight/right turn lanes adjacent to the straight only lane. Some marked clearly, some not.Everyday I watch drivers make the dragstrip effort to beat each other across the intersection. I see what nklatt mentioned many times. Luckily for me I'm able to time my riding so as to arrive at the green light after the bulk of traffic has fed through it & I can go through safely after the games are over.

The places this happens are on four-lane roads with left-turn lanes at the intersections with lights (six lanes total at the intersections). The right lane is for straight and right-turning traffic. I stop far enough left that a "typical" vehicle can squeeze by me to the right; generally this is in or very near the left tire-track of the fairly narrow lane.

Sometimes I'm certain this is just impatience but other times it just seems like the person isn't sure how to act. I'm *trying* to indicate my intent with lane position, but it's just not working 100%. Is it my fault? Could be, I suppose. I welcome input from others.

I wouldn't say it's your fault, but that doesn't mean there is nothing you can do to prevent it.
I never cease to be amazed at how much even seemingly subtle and insignificant lane positioning and body language changes can affect motorists.

I know it sounds hokey, but if you believe, deep down, that you can control traffic (and act accordingly), you can!

I don't know how one can develop the requisite strong "cycling self-esteem" to control traffic without reading Effective Cycling and/or taking a Road 1 course, and practicing what you learn from those sources.

Serge

In my case, if there is a straight lane and a right turn only lane, I stop at the far right of the right turn only lane.. If it's a straight only and right or straight lane, I stop about 3/4 of the way to the left of the right/straight lane and give enough room for right turning cars to pass but not enough room for a car to pull up and sit on my right and "stick" me in between two cars. Seems to work pretty well here and motorists seem to appreciate me following the rules of the road and at least being predictable.

Doesn't sound hokey to me at all. I've found that most motorists are like dogs. If you act like the Alpha, they'll treat you like the Alpha.

Interesting thread. I have often wondered about this situation, as it is fairly common. My 2 cents:

1. I do not want to be in a position where a car is "squeezing by me on the right." I would stop a little further to the right of the lane, even if that means blocking right-turners behind me so they have to wait for the green light to turn.
   
2. I think the law says one MAY turn right on red, not that one has a RIGHT to always turn right on red. In other words, I don't feel obligated to allow those behind me to turn on red, whether I am driving or riding. I have friends who disagree, saying that you should always go (in a car) into the left-or-through lane rather than the right-or through lane. I think this is a matter of courtesy rather than obligation. If it is safer or more expeditious to block the right-or-through lane, I will do so. This goes double when riding a bike.

Then you go straight from the right turn only lane? That's not following the rules of the road! Further, it leaves you vulnerable for a right-hook.

Why not stop in the middle of the straight lane? If there is a car there already, stop behind it. If you're first, stop at the stop stripe. When the light turns green and you are moving across the intersection, start moving to the right so through motorists behind you can pass you on the left. "Act like an Alpha and they'll treat you like an Alpha". I like that.

Serge

Why? I do it all the time with no problems.

Agreed, but why not be courteous? I guess this goes back to the first question regarding why you "do not want to be in a position where a car is 'squeezing by me on the right.'."

Serge

wow... I completely botched that one up... I stop to the far LEFT of the RIGHT turn lane.. ugh... it allows drivers to pull around me to the right and keeps me in position to go straight and makes my intentions known that I'm going straight. sorry about the confusion there. :p

Also, there is one intersection in question where two lanes turn left, one goes straight, one goes right. In said case, I stop behind the first car in the leftmost right-turn lane and then venture towards the shoulder about 3/4 of the way through the turn. Cars don't seem to mind me doing this at all and they are given plenty of room to go around me. Also, for all intents and purposes, I can sprint through the intersection as fast as they would normally drive so it's not like I'm holding them up. :)

I like to wait right in the way of anybody who'd want to pass on the right to turn right. Then they are sure to see that I'm there and know that I'm going straight ahead and they'll just have to wait. I will pull forward to allow them room to turn right if I feel generous.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You are always saying "take the lane." Now you are saying, "Position yourself in the left part of the lane so that cars behind you can conveniently use most of YOUR lane to turn right." I do not feel comfortable letting a car come within inches of me--passing on my RIGHT when another car may be inches from me on my LEFT--just so he can make a quick right turn and not miss the beginning of his favorite TV show. I do not want to be the middle of a Roody Sandwich!

That makes more sense, and describes the type of cycling I did before I learned vehicular cycling (VC) after reading and studying the book, Effective Cycling. What I didn't fully understand is how I was still thinking and acting like a second class user of the road, and the consequences of doing that.

Going straight from the far left of the right turn lane is better than going straight from the right or center of it, but it's still going STRAIGHT from a RIGHT TURN ONLY lane. The driving principle behind this type of riding is: use the part of the roadway not being used by motorists.

A vehicular cyclist would stop in the straight lane, at the stop stripe if he is first, behind the last car if he is not. If that lane happens to be wide enough to safely share with cars side-by-side, then he may move up a few cars, but never go ahead of the first car and/or past the stop stripe.

By stopping "out of the way" you're less visible to motorists and they pay less attention to you than if you're stopped in a normal travel lane in line with other vehicles going in the same direction as you. By choosing an "out of the way" position that does not make things safer for you, especially if something out of the ordinary suddenly happens for some unpredictable reason.

There is also the side benefit of VC in avoiding puncture causing road rubble. Rubble tends to collect in little piles between the normal travel lines followed by motorists, which is where you're riding if you're following the "out of the way" principle, like riding across the intersection starting at the far right of the right turn only lane.


I think you meant two lanes turn RIGHT, one straight, and one LEFT. Anyway, that's what I'm assuming.

Again, you're in a right-turn lane (albeit the leftmost right-turn lane), yet you're going straight. If you're not turning right, you should not be in the right turn only lane. That's why they call it the right-turn ONLY lane. ;)

And I'm sure the cars don't mind what you're doing at all -- though the motorists may. It's not just semantics. Seriously, one of the differences between riding as a vehicular cyclist vs. the way most other experienced traffic cyclists ride is how you think of yourself and others on the road. VCists consider themselves as equal users of the road with users of motorized vehicles (who are motorists). The key difference is that one can communicate with a motorist, while communication with a car is not possible. Again, it's not just semantics, it's how you think about yourself and others. In particular, VCists tend to interact with motorists much more than non-VC cyclists do.

Serge