A Surly has been at or near the top of my mental list of the +1 bikes, and being able to get a different type of bike with decent components that would allow me to ride long enough to become familiar with the different bike makes a lot of sense to me. That's what I've done with my commuter, just like a lot of us.

:rolleyes: You really have to be more specific about what parts you imagine to be "mediocre".

Front deraillers aren't a big deal: it's a reasonable place to spec a less expensive part.

There's no reason a Sora FD won't last a long time.

The parts on the LHT complete might not be expensive or fancy or exiting but they appear to generally be well-selected.

No. It's confusing.

People are talking about a Sora front derailler, which works like any other (road) derailler.

The bar ends might reduce the price but many people als think they are more appropriate for a touring bike than "brifters".

There are many LHT purchasers who would not have considered the LHT if it had brifers. (That is, you can't please everybody.)

[QUOTE=rschreck;14400191I'm also not a fan of Tektro brakes. [/QUOTE]
The major "issue" with Tektro cantilevers is the pads. Replace the pads with salmon Koolstops.

That is not to keep the price down. That is because they are much more reliable. And, on a touring bike, reliability is most important. Plenty of very expensive custom touring bike builds use bar ends.

My LHT is 9-speed with a triple. 105 is really for 10-speed, though I'm not sure it makes any difference up front. In general, I don't think more money = more reliability when it comes to components involved in shifting. I think what you generally buy is lighter weight. A ten-speed chain is a lighter, narrower chain. It may be that 9-speed chains are more durable, but I don't know.

For what it's worth, I agree with the volvo analogy. The LHT is a great bike, but it's aiming at a different target than "fast and light". It's a workhorse, and cushy ride, and I think the component choices of the complete bikes makes sense for touring and utility. People differ about bar-end shifters, but I love them.

"Small differences" are important to all bicycle manufacturers.

Bar ends are reasonable for the LHT because they are appropriate, that's what many people want, and they are a bit cheaper. (There are certainly LHT purchasers who prefer bar-ends. It's impossible to say whether they outnumber those who would prefer brifters.)

The guys at my LBS think that a 10 spd chain is less durable than a 9 speed. The LHT is a good mix of durable but not too expensive parts. You can get more durable (Phil Wood comes to mind) but the cost goes up dramatically. Touring bikes take a real beating. So I like parts that are pretty good and do not cost a bomb to replace. The LHT is nicely spec'd for its intended use.

It doesn't.

What you don't want is something that is "too cheap". Anyway, many "more expensive" components (105, for example) don't support the gear ranges that people want/need in a touring bike. And, given the abuse touring bikes can be subjected to, more expensive means more expensive to replace.

Touring bikes are a small market compared to road bikes: this means that touring bikes are going to be somewhat more-expensive for a given specification. "Better" specifications on the LHT parts would only make the LHT more expensive.

No, Surly owners are not worth it. ;)

I'm happy with my LHT. Nothing has broken on it. The only thing I replaced was the saddle (went with B17) and the tires when they wore out.

My son likes his 520. Nothing has broken on it either. He also replaced his saddle with a B17.

Seems to me that both bikes are good values. Both have bar end shifters, by the way. So whoever said that Surly is the only one to use them doesn't know what they're talking about.

The bar end shifters on both bikes are the same. They are both Dura Ace. I believe all of Shimano's 9 speed bar ends are DA.

I bought a LHT for my wife's daughter last year. The components were good & some excellent particularly the rear derailleur, hubs, rims, & seat post. The brakes are fine, but I would opt for the Disc Trucker (wasn't available when I bought the LHT). Also, very cheap to swap out for some V-brakes. The Andel cranks are fine. I wouldn't worry about them. I've seen them for sale as a separate item as well as on other bikes.

As far as worrying about components, I would be much more concerned about the Trek. They seem to be doing things backwards by using a lower lever rear derailleur & hubs. I would much prefer the Deore LX hubs & rear derailleur over Trek's Deores. Trek actually put a lower level derailleur on the rear than on the front (deore rear, deore lx front). What is that about?

The 105 rear derailleur you have won't be an upgrade on the Surly, and it is not going to be very compatible with the mountain bike cassettes that come on both the Trek & Surly. If the 105 front is not a triple, it won't be compatible with the cranks.

I love my LHT, but I have the same complaints about the front brake and seatpost. I bought the bike in mid-March and have 1,000+ miles on it.
With the brake, I've read here that it is Surly's choice of a cable hanger setup that causes the squeal. The Kalloy seatpost was simply a poor design and easy enough to switch out.
I needed a complete bike in a hurry after my commuter got hit by an SUV. I've been very happy with my choice.
As for all the people on BF who tell you to test ride several models before making your choice, that's easier said than done. Shops just don't keep a lot of sizes in stock, and it would be useless to compare a 62cm LHT to a 58cm 520 or a 60cm Aurora. And the shops won't order a bike in your size without a hefty deposit or full purchase price down.
So I chose the LHT because of its great reputation for loaded touring (I haul a lot on my daily 22-mile RT) and because it was available in my size right away.
The bar-end shifters are great. I'd never used them, but have extensive experience with brifters and downtube shifting. I find the bar ends easy to use and rock solid.
When it comes to higher-end components on road bikes, IMO, what you get for your money is mainly a few grams lower weight and the prestige of the brand, but not a lot in functionality or durability. The components on the complete LHT are of the heavy-duty variety, which makes sense. To go with high-end road components on this bike would be like putting racing tack on a mule.

Mine actually came with a Tiagra f.d. and a Deore XT rear d. So far it has been a bomb-proof commuter/utility ride. One of these days I'll load it up and tour, and I expect that's when it will really be in its element. Big loads of groceries in front and rear panniers confirm that it rides really well when loaded up. I've had no problems with the brakes at all. I've gone down what passes locally for a long descent, and found it handled very well. It was smooth and solid, almost boring when compared with my Felt. The fat tires really soak up the bumps.

I had the same experience.
+1. You may actually be giving up some durability with the higher end lightweight stuff.
Makes me think of those indestructible aluminum Grumman canoes versus lightweight fiberglass racing canoes.

FWIW, the left STI brifter has no fine tuning the FD cage placement to eliminate chain drag
where the friction left bar end does.. and It does not matter
what the FD on the end of the cable is, mountain cranksets and FD are a common Tourist choice

If you want to commute at a 20mph clip keeping up with traffic,
then a road bike crankset and such may make you happier.

IMO pretty much any 80's beater chromo frame is just as good as Surly or Salsa even Trek.

If you can find a nice Miyata frame and build it up with premo parts you might get a better bike for only a little more money.

Bought my crosscheck, 1x1 and karate monkey as frames and built them up. Works for me.

I really like my LHT, but in fact I bought it as a replacement an 89(?) Hardrock that I loved and had converted to a commuter, with slick tires. I loved that bike, and the Surly feels a lot like it in many ways. The frames are very similar. It was worth it to me to get everything brand-new from a local shop that I like, that will stand behind the bike. The components on an old bike may have a lot of miles on them, and it could be a bit of a hunt to find one that fits, but if you can find a good one I think those old rigid fork mountain bikes make excellent commuters. My guess is that the price I paid for the Hardrock in 89 is pretty similar to the what I paid for the LHT in inflation adjusted dollars.

A chromoly road frame would also be a good option, but I wanted to run fat tires and fenders.

Oops. :innocent:

This might be a key point. To spec a 9s Shimano brifter in 2012, a company like Trek or Surly would have to spec no better than Sora -- even Tiagra is 10s this year. While lots of us will accept a Sora FD, I don't think the same is true of Sora brifters, especially on bikes meant for extended touring.

For custom builds, 8s is the sweet spot for touring & durability IMO. NOS 8s bar ends are still easy to find, as are good 8s chains & cassettes. 7s might naturally be stronger than 8s, but the gear has become pretty scarce.

A nice thing about the stock 520/LHT builds with bar ends is current freehubs' compatibility with 8-, 9-, and 10-speed cassettes. On the road, you could slap an 8s or 10s cassette on a 520 or LHT and shift in friction mode.

It's also nice that the LHT and 520 have downtube shifter bosses. Lots of current frames only have housing stops for the handlebar-mounted shifters. With downtube bosses on the LHT and 520 you have easy cable tension adjustment (critical with "shadow" derailleurs) plus if you do bust your shifter when out in the boonies, you can mount any old downtube shifter & keep going.

I'd normally agree with you on that, however, the Tektro Oryx brakes are....flimsy. They flex under load, and then spring back, causing really horrible vibration and noise. The slightly upscale (we're talking a $24/wheel upgrade, nothing spectacular) CR720 is a much nicer brake, with a full triangle so it doesn't vibrate as bad.

I tried salmons. They're great pads, I had vastly improve braking power with 'em. Love the heck out of them. Still squealed, even after proper toe-in, because the oryx just isn't quite stiff enough to not squeal.

I have not been impressed by the Surly bikes I've ridden...the Karate Monkey was a steaming pile that transferred every vibration right into me. The LHTs ride like pigs unloaded. The Surly Cross Check does nothing for me. I love the kind of bikes Surly sells, I love the company's attitude...but I just don't like the actual bikes. The only Surly i really enjoyed was a Pugsley, which was really unique and fun on snow. Obviously your mileage may vary, but I've liked Jamis offerings more and, all things considered, I'd probably just buy a used steel bike made in Japan and with lugs.

I really want to like Surly and I like them in catalogs, I just haven't liked them under me.