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14,757 miles in the last 5 years. I've never been hit, not even close. The closest was a landscaping truck with branches sticking out of the side, those hit me. And some punk kid threw a branch at me when I was riding by. I turned around and let his mommy know what happened. However, I have been hit once (rear ended) in the last 5 years while driving to work.
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Originally Posted by nashvillwill
(Post 14420200)
Sorry Slim, but I have to completely disagree with you here. It's been my experience that the city is one of the safest places to ride. Speed limits are lower, traffic flow control is better regulated, and people (cars/bikes/pedestrians) are typically in a heightened state of awareness.
In the suburbs, you have higher speeds, which cyclist can't manage, more curb cuts, less flow control, high speed turns and poor road design. Factor in with that the suburban entitlement factor and you have some dangerous roads. No disrespect, but I would rank my most dangerous as; Most- Exurbs/suburbs/rural/city center. -least Just aside; where exactly do you find un-paved suburban roads? |
Here's another.
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm |
Ok, so I felt the need to chime in here. While I may not have the income level of others around me I typically commute in more affluent neighborhoods. Out here it is not uncommon to have the local "pro bike shop" team in full kit out on the streets at any time. People have come to expect that, so even in the suburban area that I live I find it to be quite safe. More often than not, if you ride defensively, and keep your head on a swivel, you should be quite safe in most situations. Knowledge is power.
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Originally Posted by blargman
(Post 14419552)
http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/03...why-its-safer/ I found this article compelling. CLAIM THE LANE! I do the same as this guy. I ride about 1/3 of the way into the lane. If you want to get around me, you're going in the next lane over like you would a car. No trying to sneak by me and clip me as you drive by. You have every right to the road as any car. period
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Nashvillwill says:
Sorry Slim, but I have to completely disagree with you here. It's been my experience that the city is one of the safest places to ride. Speed limits are lower, traffic flow control is better regulated, and people (cars/bikes/pedestrians) are typically in a heightened state of awareness. In the suburbs, you have higher speeds, which cyclist can't manage, more curb cuts, less flow control, high speed turns and poor road design. Factor in with that the suburban entitlement factor and you have some dangerous roads. No disrespect, but I would rank my most dangerous as; Most- Exurbs/suburbs/rural/city center. -least Just aside; where exactly do you find un-paved suburban roads? Therefore the order of danger goes like this: Urban Centers > Suburban Roads > Paved Rural Roads > Unpaved Rural Roads References: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811386.pdf http://www.iihs.org/research/fatality.aspx?topicName=bicycles&year=2008 |
Originally Posted by bragi
(Post 14419500)
Well, nothing is absolutely safe, but statistically riding a bike is more dangerous than flying, about as dangerous as driving, and actually a little safer than walking. The danger decreases with experience and sensible behavior. About half of all bicyclist fatalities are the fault of the bicyclist: they ran a ran light, didn't use lights at night, rode off the sidewalk into the street without looking, etc. If you ride predictably, signal your intentions, slow down in high-traffic areas with lots of intersections, and so on, you might die anyway, but the odds are very much in your favor; again, riding a bike is about as safe as driving.
One thing that I find really odd is that people keep bringing up this "bicycling is dangerous" nonsense. In most bike deaths, the bicyclist was killed by a car. Why isn't anybody seriously talking about how dangerous cars are? They're the things that are killing and maiming pretty much everyone that gets in their way out there, mostly people in other cars. +1 This. |
Originally Posted by windhchaser
(Post 14418665)
Are we most liely to get hit by a car passing us or from behind? or at intersections
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Originally Posted by windhchaser
(Post 14418665)
I see a few post about people getting hit by car while biking. It is scaring me pretty bad is it realy this unsafe riding a bike on the street? if so which part the most dangerous? Are we most liely to get hit by a car passing us or from behind? or at intersections
Cycling is more dangerous than stamp collecting. I guess the point is that there are risks in everything we do, you just have to prepare the best you can to lessen those risks. if you are so worried about riding, however, you will probably not have a good time on the road, so maybe try mountain biking. The only risks there are falling off the side of a trail (which I have done) or running into wildlife (like the time I ran across a mountain lion). But hey.... |
It's unsafe. You are going to die!!!
Are you guys kidding me or what? There are risks in everything we do. I'm going to try to limit those risks, but I am still going to do them. Heck you could choke on dinner tonight and die. Does this mean I'm not going to eat! |
"Unsafe" is an emotionally laden term that's hard to discuss, because emotions are subject neither to measurement nor discussion. If you change that to "risk" you can have a rational discussion.
Most calculations of relative risk indicate the risks of not exercising (as in bicycling) are about six times higher than the risk of death while cycling. I think it was the British Medical Journal (but I could be mistaken) than came out with a factor of 20:1. That is, the benefits of bicycling are 20 times higher than the risks. Emotionally, that's more than safe enough. Cycling is also fun! |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 14421098)
You must be talking about some small city or town. You can't possibly be referring to San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Dallas, Maimi, Baltimore, Boston, New Orleans, Cleveland, or Pheonix. In most large urban centers, I could swear that there's some kinda secret agreement between bus companies and taxi cab drivers to intimidate, befuddle, maim, or kill any cyclist you want, whenever convenient.
However, we also cycled in Chicago on the MUP along the lake. That was one of the most dangerous palces I've ever cycled. It was a busy weekend & the trail very crowded. Cyclists were trying to go fast to train & were a hazard. Pedestrians were often oblivious to everything going on around them. Roller bladers were a hazard even when you were standing still at the very edge of the path. No injuries but it would have been safer on the roads:( The most cycling friendly place that I've ever ridden was Seoul, South Korea. |
The safest place to ride is a big, level, grassy field, with no trees, wearing lots of pads and a helmet. Even then, you could fall over and get hurt.
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
(Post 14421436)
"Unsafe" is an emotionally laden term that's hard to discuss, because emotions are subject neither to measurement nor discussion. If you change that to "risk" you can have a rational discussion.
Most calculations of relative risk indicate the risks of not exercising (as in bicycling) are about six times higher than the risk of death while cycling. I think it was the British Medical Journal (but I could be mistaken) than came out with a factor of 20:1. That is, the benefits of bicycling are 20 times higher than the risks. Emotionally, that's more than safe enough. Cycling is also fun! |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 14421098)
Nashvillwill says:
You must be talking about some small city or town. You can't possibly be referring to San Francisco Its just a matter of though, you don't have to agree. |
If I read the OP post I assume he's talking about danger and safety in regards to his physical well being, e.g. not getting killed or seriously injured. So to compare a fender bender one had while driving and saying, 'see I never had this while cycling' is a little besides the point.
I actually looked at some stats and the chance of you getting killed while riding a bike vs driving a car are about 7 times higher (per mile travelled). That walking is more dangerous than biking is just weird, and it doesn't make a lot of sense. 4000 pedestrians getting killed vs 700 cyclists per year. That's approximately a 1-6 ratio. At least from what I see it appears that there are many more pedestrians out there compared to cyclists (certainly more than six for each cyclist). Now if you look at how many drivers get killed a year (18,000) that seems low to the enormous volume of cars out there (even if you add passenger deaths of 7000). Seems to me the order of danger by form of transportation (and we're talking fatalities here) seems to be -motorcycles -bicycles -pedestrians -cars As to the question what you can do, I found the following tips to be helpful: -Ride defensively, expect the unexpected, be aware of your surroundings -Get off the street as much as possible, try to find separated bike paths -Choose routes where the general speed of traffic is low (residential areas etc), that will make an accident more survivable |
Originally Posted by JPprivate
(Post 14421892)
If I read the OP post I assume he's talking about danger and safety in regards to his physical well being, e.g. not getting killed or seriously injured. So to compare a fender bender one had while driving and saying, 'see I never had this while cycling' is a little besides the point.
I actually looked at some stats and the chance of you getting killed while riding a bike vs driving a car are about 7 times higher (per mile travelled). That walking is more dangerous than biking is just weird, and it doesn't make a lot of sense. 4000 pedestrians getting killed vs 700 cyclists per year. That's approximately a 1-6 ratio. At least from what I see it appears that there are many more pedestrians out there compared to cyclists (certainly more than six for each cyclist). Now if you look at how many drivers get killed a year (18,000) that seems low to the enormous volume of cars out there (even if you add passenger deaths of 7000). Seems to me the order of danger by form of transportation (and we're talking fatalities here) seems to be -motorcycles -bicycles -pedestrians -cars As to the question what you can do, I found the following tips to be helpful: -Ride defensively, expect the unexpected, be aware of your surroundings -Get off the street as much as possible, try to find separated bike paths -Choose routes where the general speed of traffic is low (residential areas etc), that will make an accident more survivable |
True, it's not scientific, but I wanted to respond to Bragi who claimed that 'statistically riding a bike is more dangerous than flying, about as dangerous as driving, and actually a little safer than walking'.
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Originally Posted by nashvillwill
(Post 14421829)
Actually, I am talking about San Francisco.
Its just a matter of though, you don't have to agree. |
Originally Posted by daveF
(Post 14421458)
Can't speak 1st hand about the others, but I have ridden in Boston. One of the safest places I've ridden & most polite drivers. Very large cycling community there. My wife & I rode all around while towing our little Scottish Terrier. Drivers gave us all kind of room. My wife's daughter went to Tufts University. Her sole transportation was a bike, she has never owned a car. No problems in the 4 years she was there. Then she moved to DC for a year & then San Francisco for a couple. No problems in either place. My wife cycled in San Francisco & said it was great. No problems with traffic.
However, we also cycled in Chicago on the MUP along the lake. That was one of the most dangerous palces I've ever cycled. It was a busy weekend & the trail very crowded. Cyclists were trying to go fast to train & were a hazard. Pedestrians were often oblivious to everything going on around them. Roller bladers were a hazard even when you were standing still at the very edge of the path. No injuries but it would have been safer on the roads:( The most cycling friendly place that I've ever ridden was Seoul, South Korea. I've been to Boston on several occasions before. Boston has the same downtown craziness as all the other major cities. |
I've been riding bikes for around 50 years, and have been hit twice. The first was in Greeley, Colorado, which had bike lanes in the center of the street. I got hit by a guy turning left with no turn indication. The second time was when a guy opened a door into me; I couldn't see because the sun was low and shining into my eyes. The driver blamed me for riding too close to his car.
I've nearly been hit a number of times when walking on a sidewalk, by drivers in a hurry. Then there's the classic case of people not stopping while looking to their left for oncoming cars, not caring that a pedestrian is approaching from their right. Minimizing your risk while riding a bike is pretty simple. Wearing bright clothes helps a lot. I have an Aerostich hi-viz yellow jacket that makes me very easy to see. At night, I have a very bright headlight and taillight. Even so... it's up to me to be alert. A bus tried to outrun me to its next stop one time; I was prepared to move around to the left after the driver hit the brakes, but he didn't pull over and made all of his passengers walk across the bike lane to get to the bus. Lots of people do unsafe things. I do them too, in inattentive moments. The key is to minimize them, and hope that my unsafe action doesn't line up with someone else's. Ride alert. Have fun. Even on your way to downtown Los Angeles. |
Originally Posted by SlimRider
(Post 14422075)
Just ask San Franciscan cyclists about how safe they feel...
I've been to Boston on several occasions before. Boston has the same downtown craziness as all the other major cities. I grew up in a small town that didn't get it's first stop light until I was in high school. The "city" that I went to college in had a population of less than 50,000. Boston, San Francisco, or Minneapolis all seem like safer places to be on a bike because the drivers are used to a lot of pedestrians and cyclists. I've been to the first two cities several times and of course live in Minneapolis. Boston in particular looks like a hostile place to drive but easy to get around on foot or by bike. |
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 14422141)
I think it's more a matter of what you're used to. Cities seem crazy to people that don't live in them. Our main office is in the city and one of our satellite offices is in the burbs. Some of the people that work there live in more rural areas. Ask one of them to visit the downtown office and it's like you're asking them to travel through a war zone. ;)
I grew up in a small town that didn't get it's first stop light until I was in high school. The "city" that I went to college in had a population of less than 50,000. Boston, San Francisco, or Minneapolis all seem like safer places to be on a bike because the drivers are used to a lot of pedestrians and cyclists. I've been to the first two cities several times and of course live in Minneapolis. Boston in particular looks like a hostile place to drive but easy to get around on foot or by bike. |
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
(Post 14421294)
Living is risky, but you ain't gonna stop living, are you?
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Originally Posted by nashvillwill
(Post 14420200)
Sorry Slim, but I have to completely disagree with you here. It's been my experience that the city is one of the safest places to ride. Speed limits are lower, traffic flow control is better regulated, and people (cars/bikes/pedestrians) are typically in a heightened state of awareness.
Having said that, it all depends on which city we're talking about. I've ridden in SF several times, and none of those times have been very pleasant until I get to an MUP. Drivers up there don't seem to like cyclists very much. Once I get over the G.G. and into Sausalito & Tiburon, it's a different story - certainly less stressful to ride on the streets there. |
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