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I saw a cop talking to a salmon last night.

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I saw a cop talking to a salmon last night.

Old 07-04-12, 09:53 AM
  #26  
degnaw
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
My observation is that posters making "observations" about the behavior of people on "Walmart cheap full suspension MTB" or "riding a BMX or walmart bike" are just substituting bike brands for their judgmental stereotyping of people who don't match the observers' approved social, racial and/or economic profile.
...okey dokey. Clearly, we think all bike salmon are poor, homeless, black/hispanic people (?).

My speculation is that given the typical speeds these bikes travel at (10mph or less), the riders feel more like pedestrians than like cyclists - thus, the rider will be more inclined to behave as a pedestrian and ride facing traffic.
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Old 07-04-12, 09:55 AM
  #27  
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lol i finally figured out what a salmon was
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Old 07-04-12, 10:29 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
...okey dokey. Clearly, we think all bike salmon are poor, homeless, black/hispanic people (?).

My speculation is that given the typical speeds these bikes travel at (10mph or less), the riders feel more like pedestrians than like cyclists - thus, the rider will be more inclined to behave as a pedestrian and ride facing traffic.
And what exactly is YOUR problem with these other cyclists who aren't like you in appearance, or don't ride like you, or both?
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Old 07-04-12, 10:34 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
lol i finally figured out what a salmon was
IMO, for some on this list, sneering at "salmon" cyclists and dissing their bikes/appearance represents more than an observation on cycling technique.
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Old 07-04-12, 11:03 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
And what exactly is YOUR problem with these other cyclists who aren't like you in appearance, or don't ride like you, or both?
Do we really need to discuss what's wrong with people riding the wrong way? Especially those coming towards you on a narrow shoulder or bike lane?
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Old 07-04-12, 11:17 AM
  #31  
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There is no reason to get nasty with each other. I will admit, most of the salmon and sidewalk cruisers I see, do ride big box store bikes. Another thing I noticed is that most of the nice bikes on the road are there because that's where they race/train and/or were told by the lbs the bike was bought from. That being said, I ride a Target bought Schwinn, because that's what I could afford at the time.
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Old 07-04-12, 12:42 PM
  #32  
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This is my observation and it has nothing to do with the type of bike the salmon is riding. Most of the time when approaching a salmon, they move towards the curb forcing me to move left further into the traffic lane. The salmon, riding on the wrong side of the street, puts me into increased danger from traffic, not them.
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Old 07-04-12, 12:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
...okey dokey. Clearly, we think all bike salmon are poor, homeless, black/hispanic people(?).
If you say so.

Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
Do we really need to discuss what's wrong with people riding the wrong way? Especially those coming towards you on a narrow shoulder or bike lane?
What's wrong with them apparently is that they don't buy from the same bike sources as you and the other whiners about those "other kind" of cyclists.
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Old 07-04-12, 01:05 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by polishmadman View Post
There is no reason to get nasty with each other. I will admit, most of the salmon and sidewalk cruisers I see, do ride big box store bikes.

No doubt; most bikes owned and sold in this country ARE big box store bikes.
I see you have expanded the disapproved class of cyclists to include sidewalk cyclists as well as the nasty salmon.


Out in the suburbs, where there are no sidewalks or there are sidewalks as well as wide streets/less dense traffic perhaps a higher percentage of the cyclists observed are of the "right kind" of cyclists who don't ride nasty big box store bikes on the sidewalk.
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Old 07-04-12, 01:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rubic View Post
The salmon, riding on the wrong side of the street, puts me into increased danger from traffic, not them.
Increased danger? Oh the horror, the horror!

Spare the dramatics, it ain't that hard to ride safely despite the daily obstacles and variations in the cycling environment you might encounter.
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Old 07-04-12, 01:16 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What's wrong with them apparently is that they don't buy from the same bike sources as you and the other whiners about those "other kind" of cyclists.
Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
My speculation is that given the typical speeds these bikes travel at (10mph or less), the riders feel more like pedestrians than like cyclists - thus, the rider will be more inclined to behave as a pedestrian and ride facing traffic.
This is the reason I mentioned the type of bike in the first place. In fact, when I'm at my parents' house, I ride a walmart bike myself. I'm not sure why you continue to spin it as:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
...substituting bike brands for their judgmental stereotyping of people who don't match the observers' approved social, racial and/or economic profile.
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Old 07-04-12, 01:22 PM
  #37  
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i was a salmon but i didnt know there was anything wrong with it.I thought i took up the same amount of room no matter which way i was going.BUt now ill not do it anymore.I just liked to see what was comeing up on me
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Old 07-04-12, 01:50 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
My observation is that posters making "observations" about the behavior of people on "Walmart cheap full suspension MTB" or "riding a BMX or walmart bike" are just substituting bike brands for their judgmental stereotyping of people who don't match the observers' approved social, racial and/or economic profile.
The bikes at wal mart are poor quality and sold to a demographic that buys cheep, low quality goods for a number of reasons. Often, they don't know how to judge quality of a bike. I have been told by many people that they cannot understand why I would spend $600 on a bike when you can get one "just as good" at WalMart. Lack of cycling knowledge usually includes an assumption that Salmon riding is safer. I have observed the same thing. I am not disparaging anyone on race, or economic status. There are salmon riding more expensive bikes, but as degnaw and others have stated, the behavior is almost total among those who ride cheap big box bikes. I also take issue with the way WalMart treats workers, and is helping drive down wages.
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Old 07-04-12, 02:41 PM
  #39  
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Except that it isn't true. Salmon riding is not almost total among people riding Walmart bikes. Nor is it true that someone riding a Big Box bike lacks cycling knowledge. Or that they ride 10 mph. All of these are disparagements based on a stereotype.

If you want to know the honest truth, of the riders I've seen riding slow, and apparently lacking experience and knowledge, and even salmoning against traffic on and off the sidewalks, the largest segment have been riding Treks.
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Old 07-04-12, 03:32 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Increased danger? Oh the horror, the horror!

Spare the dramatics, it ain't that hard to ride safely despite the daily obstacles and variations in the cycling environment you might encounter.
So when a salmon pushes someone out into a traffic lane, explain how to ride safely in that situation. You do seem to have all the answers.
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Old 07-04-12, 03:49 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I prefer the company of people who are not smug Sons of a Gun who believe that their bike provenance awards them a special status to judge other cyclists.
I see you snipped my post to only show what you wanted. for your retort.

Originally Posted by ME
The majority of all people on bicycles in SolCal are Salmon riding on the sidewalk. If they are riding on Walmart cheap full suspension MTB I can almost guarantee they are salmon.
Notice how I said "Almost guarantee..." and "The majority of all people on bicycles in SolCal are Salmon riding on the sidewalk" as in, its a generalization and based on my experiences in Southern California. It is not a claim that anyone is smug. Just that MOST riders in SoCal are ignorant of both laws and safety.
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Old 07-04-12, 03:50 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by rubic View Post
So when a salmon pushes someone out into a traffic lane, explain how to ride safely in that situation. You do seem to have all the answers.
Pushes someone out into a traffic lane? You are getting hysterical.
Stop riding in the street if you can't handle traffic. You ain't in the peloton; when you ride in traffic you need to expect people to ride (and drive) in manners that are not according to your plan.
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Old 07-04-12, 03:55 PM
  #43  
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That's kind of funny. I never heard the term salmon before. Once last year, I just started to go behind a car when we got the green light at an intersection. A wrong way bike rider coming into the intersection from the road on my right, and turning into my road nearly took me out as he also blew through the red light he had on his side. This happend just as I rode into the intersection...couldn't see him due to pedestrians and a building at the corner. The idiot never even slowed down as he entered the red light that he blew through. I didn't call him a salmon....it was something more like dum-bass, if I remember right.
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Old 07-04-12, 03:58 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Pushes someone out into a traffic lane? You are getting hysterical.
Stop riding in the street if you can't handle traffic. You ain't in the peloton; when you ride in traffic you need to expect people to ride (and drive) in manners that are not according to your plan.
I am asking you how to handle this situation. Do not avoid answering by using the "hysterical" line. With 14,458 posts, I am sure you have a solution. How would YOU handle this situation?
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Old 07-04-12, 03:58 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What's wrong with them apparently is that they don't buy from the same bike sources as you and the other whiners about those "other kind" of cyclists.
Nah, what is wrong with them is that they don't know the laws and safety issues regarding how to ride the bicycle on the street. I'm not rude or judgmental of that fact, I often very politely recommend to those riding salmon that they get on the right side of the road for safety.

I personally just identify the type that would be inclined to be a salmon by the bike they are on... And there is nothing wrong with that. When I am on the road, I watch out for not just cars, but other cyclist and peds. Sadly, salmons are a pain to deal with and often require a bit of a lane change to safely pass.

Further the type of person that would buy cheaply in regards to a bike is most likely the same person that will be less inclined to read up on the laws or go to a bike safety class. The bike is a commodity good that requires nothing other than participation in its use. Not hop online to research or join a club or contact the local police station etc. The enthusiast are the ones inclined to do that research and get that training and guess what, the enthusiast MOST LIKELY are not riding WalMart bikes.
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Old 07-04-12, 04:19 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
Nah, what is wrong with them is that they don't know the laws and safety issues regarding how to ride the bicycle on the street.
What makes you think so? Do you also believe that motorists who exceed the speed limit are unaware of the law? Maybe the so-called salmon are more comfortable with their technique and don't care what the law is and care even less what smug "enthusiasts" think about it.

Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
I'm not rude or judgmental of that fact, I often very politely recommend to those riding salmon that they get on the right side of the road for safety.
Sez you.

Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
I personally just identify the type that would be inclined to be a salmon by the bike they are on. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Sez you.

Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
When I am on the road, I watch out for not just cars, but other cyclist and peds. Sadly, salmons are a pain to deal with and often require a bit of a lane change to safely pass.
OMG!! You have to change lanes!! Thank goodness you never have any other reasons to change your "line" when commuting in traffic.

Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
Further the type of person that would buy cheaply in regards to a bike is most likely the same person that will be less inclined to read up on the laws or go to a bike safety class. The bike is a commodity good that requires nothing other than participation in its use. Not hop online to research or join a club or contact the local police station etc. The enthusiast are the ones inclined to do that research and get that training and guess what, the enthusiast MOST LIKELY are not riding WalMart bikes.
Please tell me again that you are not rude and judgmental about those Other Cyclists who don't fit your approved profile (i.e. club and enthusiast cyclists) for commuting.
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Old 07-04-12, 04:56 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What makes you think so? Do you also believe that motorists who exceed the speed limit are unaware of the law? Maybe the so-called salmon are more comfortable with their technique and don't care what the law is and care even less what smug "enthusiasts" think about it.
No excuse for them. There are required licenses and posted speed limit.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Sez you.
Sez you.
No reason not to believe me.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
OMG!! You have to change lanes!! Thank goodness you never have any other reasons to change your "line" when commuting in traffic.
It less safe to me and god for I'd the salmon ever gets hits. That's what is most important.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Please tell me again that you are not rude and judgmental about those Other Cyclists who don't fit your approved profile (i.e. club and enthusiast cyclists) for commuting.
Not a rude comment, enthusiasts and club members are
more likely to know laws and safe riding practices than others.

Statistics must be really hard for you to deal with. It seems like you're hell-bend on not acknowledging that some people are inclined to do certain thing and there are indicators for those things. It's not absolute by any means but human nature is based on this compartmentalization.

Of course this is all my opinion based on my experience. Not rude, not judgemental just how I see the world.
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Old 07-04-12, 05:25 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
Not a rude comment, enthusiasts and club members are more likely to know laws and safe riding practices than others. ...
Also not true. Not even remotely, in my humble opinion based on my own observations. It's not even a reasonable assumption - consider that utility cyclists, commuters and the car-free folks are not necessarily either enthusiast nor club members, and there's absolutely no reason to suspect that they are less likely to know laws and safe riding practices.

The one and only logical point in this whole line was when degnaw said that very cheap bicycles are more likely to be ridden slower, in the manner of pedestrians. That makes sense because someone willing to spend a lot more likely has at least some experience with the sport. But even that totally fails because the same could be said for buying used bikes, or low end bikes from bike shops, and certainly does not imply that everyone who rides a big box bike (nor even the majority of them) fall into that category.

Meh. This whole side discussion is nothing more than stereotyping and prejudice, and the reasoning appears to be superficial. Or not well presented. Either way you're painting a lot of people with one brush, and it would be better to just drop it now and be more circumspect in the future.
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Old 07-04-12, 05:52 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
Statistics must be really hard for you to deal with. It seems like you're hell-bend on not acknowledging that some people are inclined to do certain thing and there are indicators for those things. It's not absolute by any means but human nature is based on this compartmentalization.
Do tell! What "statistics" are you referring to that "indicates" anything about so-called salmon cyclists and the "compartmentalization" of same?
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Old 07-05-12, 06:47 AM
  #50  
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Ah, new cycling lingo!

So, what exactly is it that would designate one a salmon? Is it just reckless riding on the road against traffic or is it anyone who circumstantially rides against traffic, on the sidewalk, for a short stretch. For example yesterday, to avoid 4th of July revelers in the heart of a park during the final part of my commute, I took a fork left route that brought me around to the left side of the final road of my commute, about 300ft before turning into my subdivision. I couldn't be motivated to wait for a signal to properly cross over to the right side so I rode on the sidewalk, left side. There was a family ahead so for about 15 feet, I was off the sidewalk, on the shoulder of the road, in full on salmon mode.

I'm not exactly seeking approval on the matter but mildly curious if I'd be deemed salmon by ogling passerby's.
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