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Henry Ford

Old 05-01-02, 07:43 PM
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LittleBigMan
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Henry Ford

I admire a real innovator, and he was one. A visionary.

Trouble is, he didn't know what his vision would eventually become.

A good idea gone bad.
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Old 05-01-02, 07:47 PM
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and he was a true anti-semite and bigot. he wrote essays on the superiority of the WASP - many reasons not to be a fan or ever own a car made by a company who was founded and never separated themselves from a mean and spiteful man.
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Old 05-01-02, 07:53 PM
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I used to have a song called "Lord, Mr. Ford look what you've done." or something like that. It was a humorous look at the trouble of a car in every garage. One line was "If you line 'em all up they'd stretch to the moon and back, Then some fool would go out to pass." I'm paraphrasing. I don't know who did the song. I have to see if I can find it somewhere.

Have you seen the new Ford commercials. They use Henry Ford's Grandson, I think. Those commercials make me sick. Yeah, I really need an SUV to go MTBing or Kayaking. Give me a break.
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Old 05-02-02, 06:58 AM
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since we are on the topic of ford and pet peeves:

i agree with the above poster concerning the new ford commercials, absolutely the worst must be the one for suv's

fords grandson says: "my grandfather use to take me camping with thomas edison and whoever was president at the time (note: be sure to read with extreme pompous tone). . . i just love the outdoors. . . i won't even stay in a hotel if the room doesn't have windows"

**********????what? that doesn't even make sense. this statement shows such a shortage of understanding and reality.
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Old 05-02-02, 07:20 AM
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well ranting, though may feel good, never gets anything done.

the original poster stated that he admired henry ford for being an innovator. you are right. as anti-vehicle everyone here may be we must recognize that there are advantages to the gas powered vehicle for transportation. henry ford is not responsible for the actions of people far after his death. i have not studied ford as an individual -- perhaps he was a bigot.

ford motor co a year + ago came out with a roar that they were going to mass produce a hybrid gas/electric ford escape (small suv). honda and toyota have already produced such vehicles. here were small attempts to change and to be innovative -- i respect these efforts.

i wonder if ford will still be as eager to produce such vehicles in light of gas consumption becoming something of a american patriotic duty.

i think these efforts, and the efforts of mass transit organizations, and the efforts of bicyclists like you are innovative respectable acts. these acts, as opposed to those statements offord in the recent commercials, show intelligence and understanding.

--m
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Old 05-02-02, 09:02 AM
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I was unaware of the afore stated negative personality traits of Henry Ford. Therefore, I cannot intelligently comment on them.

Whatever his personal character, Henry Ford did do one thing I admire (though as I said before, it was a good idea gone bad.) He was the first to successfully mass produce cars in America.

Before this, only the rich could afford to drive (and often owned many more vehicles than they could ever possibly need.) Mass producing cars, instead of one at a time, brought the price of a new car within reach of the common man (even if it was still a bit pricey for them.)

We need fresh innovation for the common person today. Too many of us are suffering from the poisonous effect of too many cars on the road.

"Business as usual" will not only destroy our environment (you know, our air, land and water, without which we ourselves will be destroyed,) but
this attitude of "don't change anything" is contrary to the spirit of innovative thinking and
forward progress.

I consider bicycle commuters among the most innovative people on the planet.
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Old 05-02-02, 02:16 PM
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I think what I dislike most about the Harvey Firestone (VERY interesting, in view of the whole SUV rollover / tyre blowout issue of the last few years) -- Henry Ford I -- Thomas Edison -- Mr. President advertisement is that it attempts to correlate SUVs with freedom, like the old petrol company advertisement of the 1980s, "It's not just your car, it's your freedom." Transporting oneself via SUV instead of under one's own power is NOT freedom, but disguised dependence on oil producers, auto manufacturers, etc. Driving my car does not give me the same feeling of freedom that bicycling does, because I am all too aware of the very high financial, societal, and environmental costs of motoring.
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Old 05-02-02, 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by mitico
ford motor co a year + ago came out with a roar that they were going to mass produce a hybrid gas/electric ford escape (small suv). honda and toyota have already produced such vehicles. here were small attempts to change and to be innovative -- i respect these efforts.
ture motovehicle companies are now trying to produce hybrids, however the technology has been readily available for about 10 years, so why only now do they want to produce them? sure it is respectable that they are doing it, but even the last president (clinton) in his first term called on car maufacturers to produce a car that can get 60 MPG. these hybrids can get 45 (close but not good enough). besides... there is more profit in an oil based motorvehicle industry.
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Old 05-02-02, 04:45 PM
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I think the big reason you don't see more hybrids is that they are expensive to make. Sure, the Prius and Insight are inexpensive to buy, but according to this article on pbs.org, they are subsidized by the sales of the companies' other products. I don't think Ford, or most other companies, feel any need to embark on what is essentially a money-losing venture in the short run, when they can just sit around and add more chrome their SUVs each model year. Honda and Toyota seem to recognize that while the short term financial returns on hybrids are not great (for them), in the long run they will be well posistioned.

I agree, Henry Ford was an inovator. I respect that. But as people have pointed out, he did have flaws. All it really proves is that if you set someone up as a hero based on one particular action, you are bound to be disappointed.

And as far as Prius and Insight drivers relating to people on bikes, well, the closest I've come to being clipped by a car (since my accident) was by a Prius.

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Old 05-02-02, 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by John E
Transporting oneself via SUV instead of under one's own power is NOT freedom, but disguised dependence on oil producers, auto manufacturers, etc. Driving my car does not give me the same feeling of freedom that bicycling does...
(yes.)

This is how I felt today, riding home. I said to myself, I said, "This is freedom. I am free. Even the cost of riding my bike is pratically free. No gas, no oil, no debt (YAY!), no license, tag or title, no NOTHING!"

Even parking is free (hey, parking can cost from $70 and up downtown per month--think of all the bike stuff you can get for that!)

Most of all, I FELT FREE! (That's the biggest thing.)

(Since I've been bike commuting, I haven't made a single car payment.)

Match that.
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Old 05-02-02, 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by LittleBigMan
This is how I felt today, riding home. I said to myself, I said, "This is freedom. I am free. Even the cost of riding my bike is pratically free. No gas, no oil, no debt (YAY!), no license, tag or title, no NOTHING!"

Match that.
Watch out, they'll be coming after you...



Perhaps they already have, designing roads to exclude you!
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Old 05-05-02, 06:21 PM
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I AM NOT ANTI VEHICLE. I just am pro biking. My family and I need our car and no, we would never sell it because It would be unrealistic for a family of four, with two small children to bike to the grocery store and buy a week's worth of groceries. Hey, I ride to the corner store and back when only small items are needed and I ride to work and we ride for recreation. Is that not enough? I think that any person who rides in Calgary even in winter when its icy and minus 30 is either very brave or nutts. I use my little FORD ESCORT when the weather sucks. Like it or not.
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Old 05-06-02, 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by marcus
I AM NOT ANTI VEHICLE. I just am pro biking. My family and I need our car and no, we would never sell it because It would be unrealistic for a family of four, with two small children to bike to the grocery store and buy a week's worth of groceries. Hey, I ride to the corner store and back when only small items are needed and I ride to work and we ride for recreation. Is that not enough? I think that any person who rides in Calgary even in winter when its icy and minus 30 is either very brave or nutts. I use my little FORD ESCORT when the weather sucks. Like it or not.
That's called responsible car use; you're still in the minority of Americans, as you do use your bike for running most small errands.

Oh, and although they look dorky as hell, trailers can hold *tons* of stuff.
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Old 05-06-02, 10:54 AM
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Honda has come out with a hybrid Civic now. I was very excited to see them on a truck this weekend. As much as I enjoy biking, I do need a car occasionally, and when my old one dies I plan to get a hybrid. As much as car manufacturers want us to adore our cars, the only ones that actually excite me are the hybrid ones.

About the Ford commercial.... the one interesting part of it is when they showed Model T's pretending to be SUVs. I was surprised they could do what they did. Makes me wonder WHY people feel the need to have a powerful SUV when the Model T was off-roading.
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Old 05-06-02, 11:14 AM
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Good Morning
Well this post may not sit well with everyone because it's kinda contrdictory to the whole bike thing but here goes. Let me start with the fact that I'm an avid cyclist, I ride 7500 to 10,000 miles a year because I love the bicycle, I commute to work 19.5 miles each way. I don't do it for the trees or mother earth. I simply like the bicycle and the engineering of it, I like to experiance the feeling I get when my body pushes my 50 - 75 pound loaded bike long distances. I meet many interesting people and see many interesting things that I would not see from the seat of a car, But. I see the value of a large powerful SUV, one that can comfortably carry 5 bicycles, 5 riders and gear for the week to a great cycling destination. I drive a ford excursion, V-10, 4X4. I have owned this truck for over 1.5 years and have driven it for over 24,000 miles. I would NOT trade this vehicle for any other, it is by far the most useful vehicle on the planet. I will buy another when this one expires. It is probably the safest vehicle on the road, (a top of the pile car) what I mean is, where it will end up after the accident.
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Old 05-06-02, 11:52 AM
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well, mrfix, IF you only use your huge Excursion fully loaded for trips with lots of gear and people... then i think it's quite fine. (you said 24k miles in 1.5 years, so sounds like you might actually use all the space, but i bet half the time your truck is not even 1/4 full)

I also had an SUV a while back and commuted by bike for 95% of my journeys in the city of Portland and then 95% of the time i did drive, my Cherokee was full of bikes and climbing gear and usually 3-5 people to go to the mountains...(i had a 2 bike racks to hold 6 bikes). i then sold it and bought a Subaru wagon which has MORE room but gets better mileage and drives better (but a wagon isn't as flashy-tough-cool as a chromed-out SUV so they're not as popular)

cars really are a great thing when used to transport large and heavy things... but most Americans these days use them in place of walking for basic everyday transportation - to transport their bodies everywhere and it's just overkill and ridiculous to drive such a huge mass to transport a single person to and from work (yes, i at one time had a full-size GMC pickup with a 454 (7.1 liter) engine... i did grow up in Texas)

the real problem is that most people buy these huge frickin' vehicles and then drive them solo to the office and then to the supermarket (come on you don't need that much space no matter how much food your family eats it will fit in a normal 4-door car or a wagon) - in Texas where HUGE trucks are the norm, most of the people drive these huge trucks an average 30-40,000 miles per year and very infrequently are they fully loaded... have you ever seen a Lexus SUV or Mercedes or Lincoln Navigator off-roading? or even full? or with a load of bikes and outdoor gear? or with a load of wood scrap metal and heavy machinery?? or used for hualing a refrigerator or something? (the people who own such vehicles pay to have someone else deliver or cart away stuff for them) --- not likely b/c they're just oversized status symbols that show up better b/c they're so big and everyone knows they cost a lot...

most Americans buy the biggest vehicle they can afford to pay for for the most they will EVER need to transport (that one week-long family trip with uncle Joe and all 4 bikes for the whole family plus the tents, etc) and then drive it 90% of the time with 1 or 2 people to the office and the supermarket and the movie theater and the drive-thru

and for a large family, a minivan is usually as useful or more useful than a large SUV with as much or more useable space

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Old 05-06-02, 01:24 PM
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no I only drive it when I have the need, I also have a mico subaru justy. I just wanted to make a point. I have a boat to pull and equipment trailer. I rarely if ever drive it solo.
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Old 05-07-02, 02:10 AM
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mrfix,

cool. sounds like you may be one of the few who actually NEED and USE a big SUV... like 18-wheelers and freight trucks and busses - i see no problem if it's for a reason (other than it's cool)

but i'm sure you know what i mean about people driving them solo in the city... i had a coworker who commuted daily 30 miles each way on quality paved roads in his darling Excursion - and he would complain that the employee parking spots weren't big enough...

and the safety issue has been addressed in another thread already:: it's safer for the driver, but MORE DANGEROUS for everyone else including cyclists (plus you tend to drive less safely when you perceive to yourself be safe inyour large vehicle)
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