i thought i said they also drive very close to me to act as if they will hit me .I invite any of you to come down and ride with me >you will see for ya selfs.Ps we have zero room on the left of the white line

I am with out the doubt the worst typer on this forum >and i try so hard

I think I see your problem...

I think i mean the right the die towards the curb

I agree a fake gun would be sufficient in most cases.. even the gun rack on the bike is probably enough to make people question your mental stability and give you plenty of room and not engage you.

coupled with a "guns don't kill people, I kill people" shirt, it could be quite effective

Then maybe we misread. It comes down to this: If the ride is too dangerous, then find another route or stop commuting on your bike. If it's people yelling at you, don't stop. People will yell at you your entire life for any number of reasons. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, but they won't stop yelling. Don't stop doing something you love because people yell at you.

I rarely ever see other bike commuters in my city and my route doesn't have any bike paths or lanes that I can follow. However, I seldom get honked or yelled at. Maybe once every 6 months or so. Perhaps you are doing things that surprise drivers -- like not being visible enough. I am convinced that one reason why drivers are generally polite to me is that I am extremely visible. I always wear bright jerseys or jackets (usually neon green) and have 3 taillights and 1-2 headlights on my bike. I keep a consistent line about 3' from the curb, enough in the lane where drivers see me but not so far right that they try to squeeze by. Another factor is my route. I try to stay off the busy roads as much as possible. My route is 2-3 miles longer than the shortest route to work because I take neighborhood streets and less traveled roads wherever possible. I only ride on the busy 4-lane roads when there are no other options.

I got yelled at or honked at a few times when I first started commuting (we're talking a few months ago). As I've gotten more comfortable with riding on streets it has happened less... in fact it really hasn't happened since those first few times. I don't really know if there's anything specific I'm doing differently that has led to this (I don't think the people who yelled had a particularly specific reason to yell). Maybe there's something to be said just for the fact that I'm more comfortable and uncomfortable riding can draw out those kinds of responses? That sounds like new age kookiness perhaps but I do think there's an intangible cause and effect at play here.

Still I won't chastise the OP for not wanting to deal with it. Commuting isn't the right decision for everyone. I feel fortunate that my location and work location lends itself to a very bike friendly route. If I had to traverse more unfriendly territory I probably would never have picked up commuting in the first place.

I can't believe all the talk about getting a gun, or even a fake one. If all that's happening is he's getting insulted or yelled at then flashing a gun will do nothing but get him in trouble, legally and physically. That's just irresponsible. Real or fake, its liable to get him shot or run over by a motorist that thinks they are in danger. At the least it'll probably get him arrested. The cyclist that pulls a gun on me in traffic is going to get squashed, although I can't imagine giving him/her a reason to do so in the first place.

I'm sure cyclist harrassment happens in my area, but I've never seen it. My job requires me to drive all over the metro area and while at times I get annoyed by slow cyclists, I have to remind myself they have as much right to the road as I do. I do get perturbed though, when they take the whole lane when there's no reason for them to. It makes me think they're doing it on purpose just to annoy the drivers. Whether that's their reason or not, appearances of such can give them a bad rep. My thinking is this: the cyclist is supposed to follow the same laws as, and is considered the same as a motor vehicle, but because they are by far the smallest and most vulnerable "vehicle" on the road, they should do all they can to safely stay out of the way of motor vehicles. That means staying as far right as is safely possible and giving proper hand signals when turning or stopping. It also means yielding to motor vehicles, even if they are in the wrong. Better to be inconvenienced than dead or injured.

So... you're not a bike commuter, are you?

Not new age kookiness at all. Unfortunately, for many it is human nature to take advantage when they sense weakness. It has always been that way and always will be. Bullies don't bully those that carry themselves as strong, confident individuals, at least if they do, they quickly learn to look elsewhere for victims. They sense weakness and exploit it. Being behind the wheel of a car just intensifies many of their hostile emotions.

In response to Wolfwerx.

No, as I stated, my job doesn't allow for it. I drive anywhere from 15 to 180 miles a day for my work. I'm just giving a perspective from a non-bike commuter. Everything I said about how I think a cyclist should behave in traffic is either the law here or at least how I would behave if I were on the road with motor vehicles. I'd rather yield my right of way than be dead because I tried to assert my right to go before that 3000 pound car. Being legally in the right won't protect you from broken bones or death at the hands of an ignorant or rude driver. I yield multiple times every day to other motorists that don't have the right of way simply because I'd rather be inconvenienced than in an accident. You'd better believe I'll accquiesce to them if I'm on a bicycle. I wouldn't like it, but I'd get home in one piece.

Nobody here would suggest playing chicken with a car. But the reality of the situation is that being on a bike requires a whole different outlook on the road than being in a car. Yes, a bike has "as much right to the road as" you do, even more than that, they are often legally required to be on the road.
When a bike is taking "the whole lane when there's no reason for them to" they may be avoiding the door zone of parked cars, or maybe that stretch of road has poor conditions on the shoulder, etc. Or, maybe, they feel that the car behind them is being squirrelly, so they are blocking that car from doing something dangerous.



Not sure what your interest is in this forum. Hopefully it's to educate yourself. Maybe I'm picking up a tone that isn't there, but you seem to be trolling.

How do you know there's no reason for them to take the lane?

I will move into the center of the lane if the right shoulder is badly paved or has glass and debris strewn about. The right side of the road might be plenty wide, but if it's not rideable, the cyclist can move to the center of the lane.

You need to do what is best for your own safety. None of us here can tell you what that is.

That said, I hate to see a situation where motorist think continually harassing a cyclist forced them to stop riding. In my case, I never got a lot of harassment, but I did get a few honks and dbags doing stupid stuff like pulling up beside me and then peeling out, diesels trying to smoke me, etc. After a year of commuting, it all stopped. I haven't had a single issue in a long time - not even a honk.

Ah, Ok I thought you were responding to a different part of my post. Yes, I see your point about why cyclists may take the whole lane when there's no apparent reason, but I've seen them do it on straight flat newly paved roads with nothing on the side to avoid and no one behind them but me driving a straight line patiently, or sometimes not so patiently, waiting for them to move over.

Not trolling at all, I was just perusing all the forums and came across this thread and wondered what the OP was giving up and why. Once I read some of the thread I had to throw my 2 cents in, more about the gun suggestion than anything else, but once I got started I had to speak my mind on the whole issue as I see it. Not that I'm anti-gun, just that in this scenario it seems a totally inappropriate response. I really wish I could commute by bike to one location for work every day. It would be great exercise and save some money at the same time, but its not feasible. And yes, cyclists here are required to use the roadways if they are over 12 years old. I think that age is a little low, I'd think 16 would be the proper age since that's when they can start driving. I personally feel they should be allowed to use the sidewalks when its safe for them to do so, ie: not crowded with pedestrians.

Not true. Staying 'out of the way' is often the least safest. I'd rather be alive AND right than either of your choices. That you believe that "to be inconvenienced than dead or injured" are our only options is disturbing.

What you should be saying - or at least accepting - is that the larger and most dangerous vehicles should be doing all they can to stay safely out of the way of all other vehicles. Which especially means yielding to other vehicles, even when you think by right of the superior threat you shouldn't have to.

When you think about it, that attitude about what the 'vulnerable' vehicles should do, instead of what you should do, is exactly why cyclists joke and fantasize about being conspicuously armed. That would make YOU equally vulnerable, and perhaps lead to an attitude adjustment.

That's my hope, too. A lot of the proper habits for bike-commuting aren't intuitive.

Trolling, as I see it, would be advising the OP to buy a gun because his feelings get hurt when people yell at him. :rolleyes:

See first paragraph of my post #47 above. I realize that sometimes there may be a legitimate reason.

You mean after all this time,I'm suppose to be actually listening to the cagers??? Well crap.....

hAHA, yeah, that was a weirdly aggressive suggestion for the OP's problem. I like guns, and I thought that was inappropriate...

My belief is that everyone should follow the traffic laws and be aware of their surroundings, however, that is not reality. Prudence would suggest that the most vulnerable should take the most care to avoid trouble, even if they are in the right, because they are the ones most likely to get hurt in the event of an accident. That's just a fact that cannot change. It doesn't matter who is right, a 30 pound bike will lose every time against a 3000 pound car. I'm not saying to be inconspicuous, just extra vigilant, because we know motorists are not often very alert to their surroundings.

And if you think having a gun with you on your bike makes motorists equally vulnerable, you're wrong. Not only might they be armed also, but they're still in a 3000+ pound car and can squash you. If you want to be armed for self defense against theives, robbers, etc, that's fine with me and I think you should have that right, but to do it in the hopes it'll disuade a motorist from being rude or oblivious is wishful thinking. If they are intentionally being rude, they are obviously beligerent and could escalate matters by trying to run you over or shoot first. If they're oblvious, they'll likely have no idea why you're flashing a gun and try to run you over or shoot first, or they may just call the cops. In either instance, you'll have a hard time proving you had just cause to flash or pull your weapon unless you have witnesses, and even then unless there has been an obvious intentional threat to run you over, you'll have no legal reason to do so.

Hey OP, I think you are just looking for an excuse to quit. Unless your route is unsafe and you have no alternative routes, just keep going. What do you care what others think of you? So what if you are the only one who rides a bike in your town? So what if every car that passes you honks or yells? Just by hopping on a bike, you're already crazier than most of the people driving, but in a good way.

Back to the topic, I don't think anyone can tell OP he shouldn't give up, or validate his decision, without at least having ridden there. Even then, what other factors are involved, not necessarily related to cycling?

All I can say is it IS dangerous, and can be vexing - if it's not worth it just stop.

The bolded is wrong, legally, morally, and in practice. The only part that is true is that the cyclist is in the most danger. It's not even true that "a 30 pound bike will lose every time"!

Obviously, everyone should look out for themselves. Yet, the people who should take the most care are those who can cause the most damage.

I also find it highly dubious that a motorist, feeling secure enough in their anonymity and equipment to threaten another person or to even assume that the potential entitles them, would be so belligerent seeing the other party armed. Do you really think you, or any belligerent motorist, would disregard a sidearm until the person draws and shoots it??

It is a mute point though, since we mostly don't ride with open carry. Hence the jokes, and fantasy.

there is no other route unless i take my bike in a boat and cross the lake

Again, prudence is the key word. The guy with the most to lose has to be the most careful because he can't rely on everyone else to do what they are supposed to. That may not be the ideal world, but its the real world.

In most states open carry is illegal, so the motorist should never know if the cyclist is armed. If the cyclist makes a move to purposely show his weapon to the motorist, that could be construed as an obvious attempt to intimidate, that is brandishing the weapon in a threatening manner, which is also illegal. Unless the motorist has actually threatened to run you over, you are in the wrong for brandishing your weapon.

I gave up last summer. Just keep riding.

Nice. I thought about putting something like that on my commuter. I would make it about 6 inches shorter than the 3 foot minimum here in WA, but make it flexible enough that if it was hit, it didn't knock me over. Now, to add something on the end that will leave a nice mark in their paint.....