indianatrails

What's the etiquette for lighting, esp. off road? Can we please adopt some?

I get it, we all love lumens, are very impressed with the size of each others' lumens and it's everything with the lumens. But in October 2012 we are long past the point of lumens=IQ. Every moron out there is sporting tremendous lumens.

So guess what, from now on all the scheiss is going to be about courtesy to your fellow lit-up-morons and not melting the retina of everything in your godforsaken path.

caloso

It seems pretty straightforward in theory: don't blind your fellow travelers. It's less straightforward in practice.

fietsbob

Seems the challenge to consideration on the road , is more of the issue..
not blinding oncoming road users..

Doing a 24hr Enduro race through the woods, you may need the light,
but everyone is going around the course in the same direction..

no1mad 

Part of the problem is the beam pattern. Those designed for the North American market tend to be symmetrical, while those meant for the EU tend to be asymmetrical. The asymmetrical feature a cut off light automotive lights- which work best on the road, but not so much off road.

Maybe the best scenario would be a bright asymmetrical light on the bike and a symmetrical mounted on the helmet- preferably with a less intense light. Of course, I don't go riding through the woods at night, so I may be talking out of my arse.

RichardGlover

I have lumen-envy.

Leisesturm

There isn't usually much difference in the power of the low beam of a car headlight and the high beam. In many cases there is no difference at all in the power of the LB vs. the HB. The difference in luminous flux when you are traveling towards a vehicle whose operator is ignorant of the proper operation of the dipping switch is considerable. I don't mount my MagicShine on my helmet for that reason. There simply is no way to avoid blinding drivers with it mounted up so high. Unless I looked into the ditch everytime I met oncoming traffic. Splat! Based on my observation of the lights of other cyclists going opposite me on the road at night, bicycle headlights, even the flamethrowers are of little consequence to motorists. Come on... you all drive. I don't, but even I know that the biggest problem you have isn't bike riders with MagicShines, its lifted pick-up trucks with HID lowbeams that are at head height or older cars with headlights that haven't been aimed since dinosaurs roamed the MidWest. When it gets dark the solid wall of headlights coming at me completely kills my night vision. A bright headlight becomes as imperative as it becomes for a motorist in the same situation. My MagicShine barely cuts it. Cars have dip switches and some people actually use them. Many don't. What do you do? Look at the fog stripe is what I was told. On an MUP if someone is coming at you with a flame thrower, I don't ride MUP's so I don't know what that's like... since its a pet peeve of so many, I'll take it as a given that it isn't pleasant. Interesting though that any number of inconsiderate drivers do the same thing with headlights that throw the equivalent of four MagicShines into your eyeballs to very little public outrage, but a single cylist does it and s/he becomes a 'lit up moron'. Anyway, MUP's don't have fog stripes but they must have grass verges or some other feature to focus on for the momentary loss of forward vision. Really, I can't see it as a significant problem.

H

MNBikeguy

Fellow lit-up morons, is this too many lumens?



Or.. you could just turn your beam. Fair 'nough?

Leisesturm

Scheiss, is that all it is? I didn't need to spend 20 minutes writing post #6? Dang it. Lumen envy is so easily fixed I couldn't imagine that that was the issue. MB.

H

colleen c

Rule is simple:

Rule #1:
"Do not do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you".

Rule #2:
If you think you are blinding others, tilt it down or dim it.

Rule #3:
When in doubt, see rule #1.

Andy_K 

There was an evening last year when I noticed a driver putting a hand up to shade his eyes as I approached. Since then, I've seen reducing my light output as a safety consideration.

I'm doing a post-sunset CX race tonight and I find myself wondering if my NiteRider MiNewt 600 even has a low enough setting to avoid accidentally incinerating my competition.

sternzeit

Scheisse...now that's an interesting way to circumvent the verdammt filter.

pallen

yeah, the problem is that we only see our lights from behind. We don't know what it looks like to those heading towards us.

mtbikerinpa

On a trail race or group ride I find if someone has a super bright light it can be a problem to those behind who don't. Shadows cast forward can be a real issue. On the road as a single bike in context of cars it is another story. When I had a 1 watt LED CatEye light people would High flash me either as a percieved favor or to identify the source. When I got my 10/20 watt Niterider it changed to cars turning down their highs from a distance. If they didn't I could click the high and they responded, just as in the car. Power used properly can enhance the experience.

InTheRain

Lights with a reflector that focus the beam down lower and have a cutoff so the light does not flood all over the place are appreciated by oncoming cyclists as well as auto traffic. Several of the Busch & Muller lights have this reflector since it is required by law in Germany. Mine runs on a hub dynamo, I don't know if they make one that runs on a battery pack.

Mark Stone

This^^^. Different rules for different situations.

cehowardGS

Here is my opinion on this subject.

I come out in the wee hours of the morning, and I have to merge into rush hour traffic. The traffic is moving upward of 45mph or faster. After I finally merge in, cars are passing me, upward of 50mph and close. Finally, I am in the traffic, and I move from a single lane road to a dual lane road with a middle turning lane. I take one of the full lanes. Cars are passing me upward of 50mph. When I approach a corner, and a car is waiting to make a left turn, the cars wait for me to pass, each and everytime. Sometimes from as far as a full block away. Also, cars pulling out of driveways, wait for me to pass. This is the respect I get for running strong flashlights up front.

I don't run this setup on bike trails, MUPs are anyplace where pedestrians and bikers are at. I run this setup in the balls out knock down drag out rush hour traffic. When those cars pass me at those speeds I imagine what would happen if one made contact with me. It would not be a good show, I tell you that. Now, as far as blinding lights on a bicycle, I think all bikers who are running strong lights, have them aimed downward toward the road, not up towards drivers eyes. Now I am only talking about bicycles on the road in dealing with cars, not other bikers and pedestrians. The bicyclists are only visible to cars for a second or two. IMO, that second or two is very, very important for the cyclists as far as being seen. I think we all know the result of not being seen by a fast moving car, and the car making contact with a rider on a bicycle, bad news. My lights strong enough up front that you can see the beam from the rear, and you know something is there. I said all this to say, I don't think strong lights on a bicycle are that much of a problem. Could be very annoying on the bike paths and MUPs, where only other bikers and pedestrians congregate. But, in the real world of fast moving traffic in the night, IMO, a full blown searchlight on a bicycle would not be too much. Again, just my opinion..

Here is how I have my lights aimed.. As you can see the beam is forward usually about 20 to 30 feet.

wphamilton

It can be an issue on paved trails and bike paths which are 10-12 feet wide or sometimes even narrower. When someone is coming from the other direction with a super-bright light shining in your face and you're passing within a few feet of each other you can be literally blinded. Just aim your light down and right, but with really cheap 1000+ lumen lights these days the casual or newby riders strap them on and they don't know any better. So you wind up with a sketchy rider coming at you as fast as he can, weaving around, and you can't even see the path. It's a problem.

Leisesturm

Its annoying, but its not a problem. Put a hand up. Block the direct beam into your eyes. Use his light to see the path. He'll pass by in a few seconds. I usually aim my MagicShine to put the meat of the beam 20' out from the bike. Everytime I hit a bump it shifts and always upward. Even if I don't hit any major bumps after 5 or 10 minutes the light shifts upward. There is a position which seems to make my light happy and where bumps or time do not change the orientation of the lens. The beam just grazes the surface of the road and if something is down the road that needs lighting up it gets it. This would appear to be the most efficient position of the light. But not the most neighborly. I am sure that an oncoming cyclist on an MUP is going to be momentarily blinded by the light in that position. I don't ride MUP's but I ride at night enough to know that by the time you see the oncoming cyclist and manually dip your light you would already be past him or her. Unless they also have a light that you can see a long way off. Some riders are going to try and dip... some are not. Kind of like drivers and high beams... ...

H

no1mad 

There is a thread that discusses the solution to that problem- https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-unit-in-place

no motor?

I try and be courteous with my lights, and occasionally see pedestrians coming my way on the bike path. I put my hand over the light after I see them (and long after they've seen me), and most are happy with that. Every now and then someone isn't, and I usually tell them I need the bright lights to see the skunks and people in dark clothes on the bike path. That usually works.

CliftonGK1

I have an IQ-Cyo on my commuter with a blinkie white LED on my helmet. The Cyo is an asymmetrical beam and I haven't had many complaints about it. There was one guy on the MUP, but my commute is all surface streets now, so that is out of the picture. Haven't had any cars zap me with their high beams indicating that my lights are too bright or in their face.

I don't know if I could say the same if I was running my Dinotte 1200L dual quad from my MTB. That thing pumps out the light and would probably piss off a lot of drivers, and for the snowy days I'll have to figure out a way to modify it with some shielding to keep the overspill to a minimum.

wphamilton

No, it really is a problem. Keep the lights aimed down at the path, all the time.

sci_femme

If I see a cyclist on the MUP in a distance, I will shutter my MagicShine with my hand before oncoming cyclist comes into my beam pattern. People actually thanked me for that. As far as motorists are concerned, the more lumens, the better. I have two teenagers to put through college, thank you very much.

leatheryTaint

On-road etiquette: Highest out put all the time, no consideration for drivers. Fellow cyclists and pedestrians get a low beam. People drive so fast up here, Id rather blind drivers than get hit by a car, I also like pissing people off.
Off-road etiquette: Be kind and don't blind fellow cyclists. Things can get out of control fast when you have a blinding light shined at you.

Drew Eckhardt 

Sure.

No brighter than car / motorcycle low beams is a great benchmark since it provides enough light to avoid running over things at vehicular cycling speeds.