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what should i upgrade first?

Old 01-01-13, 10:33 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by mtb123 View Post
I'd have to disagree. Lowering the rotational weight in your wheels and tires is one of the most noticeable changes you can make to your bike. His stock tires are ~800 g apiece. Switching to a 400 g tire will be a change/upgrade that he can feel. I agree that you can't measure quality with a scale. But a $13 wire bead tire with no details on weight or tpi sends a pretty strong signal of low quality. I only mention this because the thread topic is about worthwhile upgrades.

By the way, I wouldn't run a 700x38c tire anywhere near 85 psi unless you really want the pavement to beat you up.
The lower rotating weight only makes a difference when accelerating... and yes it would probably be a noticable difference when accelerating, but no difference beyond removing the same weight off another part of the bike in scenarios other than accelerating.
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Old 01-01-13, 12:16 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
The lower rotating weight only makes a difference when accelerating... and yes it would probably be a noticable difference when accelerating, but no difference beyond removing the same weight off another part of the bike in scenarios other than accelerating.
I was reading a bicycling magazine in Barnes & Noble yesterday (forget which one) and they had a letter to the editor section and someone asked about rotating weight. The magazine got a rocket scientist (literally) to answer the question. He did say that it wouldn't make a difference at a steady speed on a flat where the weight is, but how often are most cyclists at a steady speed on a flat service?

The short takeaway I got from reading the piece was that any rotating weight saved equaled 2x non-rotating weight. So yes, saving rotating weight leads to more performance than non-rotating weight all things equaled. For a racer, that might be a big deal, but for most commuters saving a few ounces of rotating weight won't be that noticeable and saving a lot more than a few ounces can be expensive. Better off not worrying about weight unless it is your weight!
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Old 01-01-13, 12:22 PM
  #53  
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i have the basic tools already bought the alien 2 that has like 24 tools in a leatherman type style a course have a socet set and wrench set but i do need cones wrenches and something to remove the cassette and front sprockets.
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Old 01-01-13, 12:25 PM
  #54  
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Commmuting, the reliability does not require premium components,
more regular maintainence , done early , rather than after failure..
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Old 01-01-13, 12:29 PM
  #55  
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cool all i want is dependability so far a weak link on bikes for me has been the rear gears had 2 bikes where the rear cassete or freeweheel would turn but it wouldnt engage the wheel so i just coulnt get bike to move.on both bikes they was made by pacific bikes.one being a Schwinn and other a moongoose
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Old 01-01-13, 02:02 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
i have the basic tools already bought the alien 2 that has like 24 tools in a leatherman type style a course have a socet set and wrench set but i do need cones wrenches and something to remove the cassette and front sprockets.
A multi-tool is a good start for covering your bases while you settle in to your new biking lifestyle
However, a multi-tool is really intended for roadside repairs and won't serve very well in the long term as a primary "shop" tool.

This link will give you a glimpse of some of the sets that are available, which may offer better bang for the buck than buying individual tools. https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...p?category=219
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Old 01-01-13, 04:50 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
cool all i want is dependability so far a weak link on bikes for me has been the rear gears had 2 bikes where the rear cassete or freeweheel would turn but it wouldnt engage the wheel so i just coulnt get bike to move.on both bikes they was made by pacific bikes.one being a Schwinn and other a moongoose
It can be nice to have a set of cycling specific brushes to keep the drivetrain clean. Particularly one the will allow you to get in between the cogs on your cassette.
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Old 01-01-13, 05:02 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
The lower rotating weight only makes a difference when accelerating... and yes it would probably be a noticable difference when accelerating, but no difference beyond removing the same weight off another part of the bike in scenarios other than accelerating.
Accelerating = starting from a dead stop,like what you have to do all the time in rush hour city traffic. Here in DC,you really notice lighter tires. And they also make a big difference when climbing hills,like we also have here in DC.
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Old 01-01-13, 05:09 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
The lower rotating weight only makes a difference when accelerating... and yes it would probably be a noticable difference when accelerating, but no difference beyond removing the same weight off another part of the bike in scenarios other than accelerating.
That's just not true. Rotational weight makes a difference when climbing hills as well. But hey, maybe the OP has only one start/stop on a route that is perfectly flat and he maintains a constant 12 mph for the entirety of his commute.

Originally Posted by terrapin44 View Post
...for most commuters saving a few ounces of rotating weight won't be that noticeable and saving a lot more than a few ounces can be expensive. Better off not worrying about weight unless it is your weight!
The context of the thread is worthwhile upgrades. An upgrade is something that will improve some aspect the bike's performance. The OP started with fat ~800 g 2.2 inch mtb knobbies as his stock tires. His first "upgrade" was a set of $13 wal-mart quality tires that would roll faster on pavement. I suggested weighing the tires. If they hadn't already been installed and didn't weigh significantly less than his stock tires, I would have suggested that he return the tires and save for a better upgrade.

There are many fast rolling cx tires that weigh ~350 g and would easily outperform his $13 tires. If he saved up a little more he could reduce rotational weight by nearly 2 lbs over his stock tires. Would the cx tires cost more? Yes. But it could potentially be the most cost-effective way to upgrade and improve how his bicycle rides.

Will his $13 tires work? Of course. Will his stock tires work? Yes. Can you commute on a heavy bike with cheap tires? Sure. Is it really necessary to spend money to reduce rotational weight? No. But again, the OP's topic is upgrades.

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Old 01-01-13, 07:25 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
The lower rotating weight only makes a difference when accelerating... and yes it would probably be a noticable difference when accelerating, but no difference beyond removing the same weight off another part of the bike in scenarios other than accelerating.
I've had this discussion before but here goes: When are you not accelerating on a bicycle? While you might cover a 20 mile distance at an 'average' of, say, 15 mph, the instantaneous speed is going to fluctuate greatly around that 15 mph. Anytime you deviated from that 'average' (either plus or minus), you are accelerating. Even if you can keep the speed at exactly 15 mph over the 20 mile distance, you have to accelerate to neutralize the forces acting on the bike. The main force is wind resistance but there are others constantly acting on the bike and rider.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:02 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by mtb123 View Post
Will his $13 tires work? Of course. Will his stock tires work? Yes. Can you commute on a heavy bike with cheap tires? Sure. Is it really necessary to spend money to reduce rotational weight? No. But again, the OP's topic is upgrades.
The OP's desire appears to be to "upgrade " regardless of necessity.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:19 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I've had this discussion before but here goes: When are you not accelerating on a bicycle? While you might cover a 20 mile distance at an 'average' of, say, 15 mph, the instantaneous speed is going to fluctuate greatly around that 15 mph. Anytime you deviated from that 'average' (either plus or minus), you are accelerating. Even if you can keep the speed at exactly 15 mph over the 20 mile distance, you have to accelerate to neutralize the forces acting on the bike. The main force is wind resistance but there are others constantly acting on the bike and rider.
I recall some of the discussions we have had. We will have to agree to disagree, and we should also finally come to agreement on the fact that you are wrong

Unless you are undergoing a bulk change in speed, the weight of your wheels make little or no difference. Yes, there are accelerations and decelerations as you ride, even at a seemingly steady speed, but the flywheel affect from the heavier wheels will actually result in LESS of the small accel- and decel-erations. The speed you lose will be a result of drag forces (caused by aerodynamic resistance, mechanical drag in the wheel bearings, and rolling resistance of the tire and tube deflecting against the ground) and the energy required to overcome these forces (and keep a steady speed) is equal to the forces X the time over which they are applied. And all these forces are independent of wheel weight.

As for hills, lighter wheels and tires make the same difference as a lighter frame, or pouring water out of your water bottle at the bottom of the hill.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:23 PM
  #63  
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i got all i want from this thread i will get a stand and some tools and ride the bike ty for all the advice
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Old 01-01-13, 08:33 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
i got all i want from this thread i will get a stand and some tools and ride the bike ty for all the advice
NO! You must stay and watch it degrade into a shouting match about physics equations, frame materials (Aluminum is best, followed by Hi-tensile steel, then Carbon, then Cromoly), spoke tension, and correct cable-housing length. If you leave now you will miss all the fun!
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Old 01-01-13, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
I recall some of the discussions we have had. We will have to agree to disagree, and we should also finally come to agreement on the fact that you are wrong

Unless you are undergoing a bulk change in speed, the weight of your wheels make little or no difference. Yes, there are accelerations and decelerations as you ride, even at a seemingly steady speed, but the flywheel affect from the heavier wheels will actually result in LESS of the small accel- and decel-erations. The speed you lose will be a result of drag forces (caused by aerodynamic resistance, mechanical drag in the wheel bearings, and rolling resistance of the tire and tube deflecting against the ground) and the energy required to overcome these forces (and keep a steady speed) is equal to the forces X the time over which they are applied. And all these forces are independent of wheel weight.

As for hills, lighter wheels and tires make the same difference as a lighter frame, or pouring water out of your water bottle at the bottom of the hill.
We will have to agree that someone is wrong but it isn't me. Try this, get a very light weight frame and put extremely heavy wheels on it. Then put light weight wheels on it. See which one is easier to keep speed on. Then go climb a hill. I'll bet you notice a lot more difference than pouring water out at the bottom of the hill.
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Old 01-01-13, 08:52 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
(snip)

As for hills, lighter wheels and tires make the same difference as a lighter frame, or pouring water out of your water bottle at the bottom of the hill.
Have to agree. Everything on the bike is being accelerated at the same rate. Some of it is linear acceleration - some of it is centripetal acceleration. The force equals mass times acceleration thing applies in both cases.
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Old 01-01-13, 10:07 PM
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im haveing tropulbe finding what tool i use to remove diff parts can someone pleaspost links for the proper tools to remove my rear freewheel and my bottom bracket and crank arms
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Old 01-01-13, 10:38 PM
  #68  
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Why the **** do you need to remove your crank and bottom bracket already? Just ride the bike and upgrade when stuff breaks.
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Old 01-01-13, 10:40 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Why the **** do you need to remove your crank and bottom bracket already? Just ride the bike and upgrade when stuff breaks.
i dont have to but i like to have the tool just incase.
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Old 01-02-13, 12:18 AM
  #70  
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cool all i want is dependability so far a weak link on bikes for me has been the rear gears had 2 bikes where the rear cassete or freeweheel would turn but it wouldnt engage the wheel so i just coulnt get bike to move.on both bikes they was made by pacific bikes.one being a Schwinn and other a moongoose
Replace parts that fail. with new ones..

If you want a nicer, proper bike shop bike, drop by and speak to the staff.

or just maintain what you have ..
they're not great, but at least the motivation to steal them, will be less, also..
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