I chose the word Real as a hook to get people to click the headline. Then I took the time to define Real for THIS POLL ONLY. Outside of this thread everyone may return to their own interpretations of the word. "Commuting cyclist" still covers too much ground. I was looking for people who are mostly "stuck" (yet another debatable term) getting around by bike. I wanted input from folks who depend on their bike as part of their life - because these people are forced to ride under conditions no one would normally choose on a daily basis if they were playing on a bike.

For the record, I am "Stuck" with traveling by bicycle in this thread even though I could very easily use public transit, buy or rent a car, walk, or use my inline skates to commute. The most cost effective, reliable, safe, fast, and convenient means of getting from A to B is without doubt my bicycle. So figuratively I am STUCK with it as defined right HERE.

Yeah dude, but as I said, when I used to be "real", I rode the same as I do now. Which leads me to believe that you should spend some time getting your attitude adjusted. Are you sure your name is Joey, not Richard?

Yes, you made that clear in post #1 "By Real I mean people who use their bikes daily (or very often) for utilitarian purposes like getting to work, running errands, getting groceries, etc." I think we all understand what you meant, but it's not surprising that others would be offended.

Yeah. Your OP definition made sense though the use of "Real Cyclist" was an indication of your own agenda.
This post indicates that you think that only desperately poor cyclists or commuting cyclists with no other options are the only Real Cyclists who know the score about commuter bicycling safety. Input from all Unreal Cyclists who bicycle commute by choice has no value to the likes of Real Cyclists such as yourself.

Next time you are looking for attention just put the word Walmart or Helmet in your headline.

I voted in the poll before I got to the post clarifying that the OP was specifically looking for input from commuters and utilitarian cyclists who do not have/use other options (I interpreted the original definition a little bit differently). Disclaimers: 1) I have a car. 2) I use the bus for the bulk of my morning commute to work (but I ride my bike all the way home).

Anyway, I voted crossing intersections on the green because of left-turning motorists coming from the opposite direction. Even when I make eye contact, I'm not always sure that they won't try to make their turn in front of me.

I also voted other for situations like the following:
On one part of my commute, I make a right turn from a side street onto a major street, from which I then have to make a left turn fairly quickly. I don't have much time to get all the way over into the turning lane with traffic bearing down on me. I have a strategy for it now, but in the early days of my bike commuting, there were a lot of close calls as I tried to figure out what to do.

Your mileage may vary on this one, but I've discovered that if I'm hugging the curb approaching an intersection where the light is green opposing drivers turn in front of me; if I take a lane and ride on the left side of the lane (read: not in the oil lol) then they give me the right of way. Just my experience.

Hey, that's me! Do you have any examples of these cyclists who committed suicide by taking the lane? Or are your comments based on your perceptions and fears?

Look, I know it's scary at first to to take the lane in front of 50+ mph traffic, and I admit I avoid it if I can.

But I've also learned that it's far from the death wish that all non-cyclists and even most cyclists seem to believe it to be. Drivers really do see me, and really do treat me with care when I take the lane on these roads.

Put on your Hi-Vis, turn on a bright rear blinky, take a peep in your helmet mirror and give it a whirl. It's quite empowering when you learn that traffic will respect your right to the road. 7 and a half years of commuting and I've yet to have an incident or close call in this situation.

HeeHee :lol:

Joey: I have no issue with your definition of real cyclist. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as usual yours ruffles a few feathers. Whoopie, it's the internet.

For me it's clearly the first option- overtaking. I find that riding with a mirror helps a lot in that regard. I often take the lane, and the mirror shows that most drivers change lanes early to get around me. If they don't I go on high alert and occasionally I will bail out to the gutter or sidewalk. This is pretty seldom, but with the mirror I can make intelligent decisions. It seems like when I hear of people getting hit by cars, at least around here, it is when cars are overtaking bicycles and run right up their poopers.

+1

That is a misunderstanding. I should have been clearer.

What I am hoping for is a large sample of folks who use their bikes to get to work exclusively. I have plenty of friends who never ride a bicycle except when they have a utilitarian need - never for fun or fitness. However, I realize there is a wealth of information to be gained from commuters who sometimes ride for fun, or actually enjoy riding to work (I do not enjoy riding to work). Also folks may be trying to keep their weight down or maintain a base fitness level for racing or touring.

So if I had to narrow it down to two groups, 1. Pure Commuters (better choice than "Real"), and 2. Commuters with other agendas for cycling to work.

I want to be clear that I value input from both categories on this matter. I was simply trying to push the sample towards #1 without totally excluding #2. Pretty simple. Was not trying to hurt feelings or disrespect any forms of cycling. I most definitely was trying to maximize the number of people clicking the headline as well.

Would I love a sample from desperately poor commuters? You bet. I doubt they are hanging out here at BF due to lack of Internet access.

This is a little bit OT, but I just linked to joeybike dot com from your sig and spent a little time - outstanding site! I'm going to start reading through the Life Well Lived blog. Nice work sir

That is a distinction that never occurred to me. Has to vs enjoy, for a real cyclist.

I may have been real only for a few months as a rank beginner then, until I worked myself into good enough condition that I no longer hated it. So I've always considered that stage to be more like a physical deficiency. Maybe your perspective on this is a little narrow.

Why would anyone have to ride a bike? Why not just use the excellent public transportation?

:innocent:

Thanks TL.

The Life Well Lived blog is the most controversial piece I have ever put together. Would be nice to know if you love or hate it. Shoot me a PM after you look it over if you get a sec.

Is that sarcasm? I always wonder why anyone would have to ride the bus when I ride by. People not fully understanding the alternatives I guess, either way.

This ^^^

The entrances and exits to shopping centers are the most worrisome thing in my opinion.

Also OT, but I read through the LWL blog and I really enjoyed it.

A lot of the reasons stated in there are similar to reasons that I bolted to work in Europe after finishing my studies in the US (was born and raised in the US). The work/life balance is very important to me and things over here are much more balanced toward life/living (starting with 6-10 weeks mandatory vacation per year). However, it does come at a cost, usually in the form of reduced materialism. I agree with a lot of what you wrote, and trading the work for life was a great choice for me, however, my family still thinks I'm nuts, because all they do is work :(

Since this came up . . . . I have checked out your page also and got a totally different reality of the "Joeybike" image I previously had.
The 'real' ( he he he ) version adds even more creds to the opinions put forth, as if any are needed anyway.
You are very accomplished. I hope the anti-Joeys take time to check the page out.


Also, since the topic has come up. I get humor from the "Real cyclist" stuff in a reverse way. When I walk into a bike shop in our town, it is an abject lesson in torture. I incorporate a bike into my lifestyle but thats where the similarity ends. If you go into a 'serious' bike shop with this attitude and not in uniform, you are asking for a root canal level experience relative to pleasantness.

I appreciate the time you take to put this stuff up. Very much appreciated.

All of us here on BF are in agreement :lol:

Actually they have a point. We have job offers in Basel, Switzerland; Copenhagen, Denmark and Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.

But what we don't have, is offers to stay in Frankfurt.

So, we move again, except this one counts as we want to start a family ASAP.

However, nice bike infrastructure is high on the list so it looks like Copenhagen, especially because Basel is a dump.

Could be worse I guess, I just had two colleagues/friends move to India for work.

I chose other. My most vulnerable feelings come when a car is coming in from a side street and is not looking. #2 would be overtaking, but aside from a couple of close passes, I've had no troubles from cars behind me.

I've had that experience in a few bikes shops here too. The shops are just starting to clue in that commuters have their own needs which are different than those of roadies/racers and those of BMX/MTB riders. I now avoid a couple specific shops in my town after being sold substandard parts despite telling them what my needs where.

Probably my biggest concern situations are when crossing freeway onramps/offramps and I'm riding straight down the road. Motorists seem to get really impatient around onramps/offramps, and they are especially distracted by lookong for gaps in traffic to merge into and are not or rarely are considering a cyclist or pedestrian who might be in the motorist's direction of travel.

Next is the passing traffic as I approach on intersection that a motorist might be wanting to turn at (this includes driveways and parking lot access points).

Hope this helps some.