Chesha Neko

...tires.

It's odd. I originally bought a bike with large tire clearance because I was heavy and figured I needed fat tires. My bike came with 32mm tires, but flatted constantly, so I switched to 25mm Michelin Krylions, had much fewer problems, then tried 23mm Veloflex tires which I loved despite weighing 240 pounds. I also enjoyed ProRace4 Service Course 23mm, and Panasonic Type A 23mm (actual was less than 22mm).

Then I lost 50 pounds and oddly I found them to be much less comfortable. Every bump became a kick in the sit bones with steel-toed boots. I moved to 25mm ProRace4 tires from Michelin since I couldn't get my hands on the new 25mm Veloflex tires, and these were much less cruel.

I considered getting some wider-rimmed wheels so I could move up to 28 or 32mm tires, but at this point, I'm kind of spoiled and I like lightweight, supple tires and lightweight tubes and I couldn't find many options in the larger sizes except for Challenge and Grand Bois, which of course brought me into contact with the 650B crowd.

Long story short, I ordered a 650B wheelset, tires, and a new extra-long reach brake caliper. If there was a eureka moment, it was when I laid a 23mm Veloflex on top of a 42mm Hetre Extra Leger:



Same total diameter, but a lot more sidewall on the Hetres. Once the wheels arrived I weighed the fronts: tube, wheel, and tire total for my stock Surly 700C wheel with 23mm Veloflex was about 1300 grams or 1325 grams with the 25mm tires, and the total for the 650Bx42 was 1370 grams. While I am not a total weight-weenie, I like to keep rolling weight down within reason, and that isn't too bad of a weight penalty given the relative increase in tire volume.



The parts of the conversion expected to be easy ended up being hard, and vice versa. Tire clearance was no problem. I even test fit the SKS Raceblade XL fender I use on the rare rainy day and it fit just as well as if I were running 25mm tires on 700C. The brakes were the hard part. I bought a Tektro 559 front off of eBay, which by all reports would work fine, but in fitting it there just wasn't enough clearance on one side. A run to the LBS helped: I bought some new brake cable since I destroyed the one I was working with, and they gave me some new spacers to try out. After some experimentation with different spacer combinations I finally got sufficient clearance.



Bottom bracket height after conversion is around 266 or 267mm, no apparent problems with pedal clearance, but I am running low Q-factor track cranks and clipless pedals. Of course, some vintage GB drop bars arrived while I was at the shop, so I switched bars and rode back to the shop for some new wrap. I'm worn out now, so I'll wrap the bars tomorrow.



I didn't have too much time/energy to really flog the new tires, but my first impressions? Magic carpet ride? No. There is a lot of hyperbole surrounding these tires, and I suppose they would be more impressive to someone coming from leaden commuting or touring tires, but in comparison to narrow supple racing tires they are smoother yes, but the bumps in the road are still bumps in the road, though riding over chip seal is much less unpleasant.

The most impressive thing about them is the cornering grip. I was impressed with the MotoGP profile of the new ProRace4 tires from Michelin, which cornered even better than Veloflex, but these are in a different class altogether. It must come down to the sheer amount of rubber on the road when cornering.

Overall, I have to say that I like the new look, though I was initially dubious about gumwalls. It is nice to be putting all of the tire clearance this frame has to some use. The Miche Primato hubs are pretty, but I loathe the stock lockring. I'll have to cough up the cash for a Campy or Phil Wood since the threading isn't compatible with my Dura-Ace lockrings. Commuting by bike is supposed to cost less than commuting by car isn't it? Looking forward to the day that actually happens.

jyl

The fatties look pretty cool. I think the tan walls keep the bulk of the tire from resulting in a heavy look.

(Tan walls take a bit more cleaning, but if you don't often ride in the rain, it shouldn't be onerous.)

I'm not wild about the brakes set up at the extreme of reach. Maybe there's no alternative. Did you consider making a drop bracket?

ThermionicScott 

I like it! Commuting has ended up costing me money, as well.

Chesha Neko

No, but I've considered switching to the Dia Compe centerpulls which have a couple more millimeters of reach than the Tektros. On the other hand, since the bike is fixed gear I partially slow and stop via backpedaling so that brake caliper isn't doing all of the work.

SlowRoller

What pressures are you using front/rear? I only ask because I find people moving over from the racing tire world tend to over-inflate 650B tires, understandably. I like 50/55 psi for the standard Hetre. I know people who run them lower.

Chesha Neko

So far, trying 55 front, 62 to 65 rear. Mind, I weigh 190 pounds plus I often carry up to 20 pounds in my Carradice. Going to try lowering the rear to 60 next outing. I was expect to run the front lower than 55, but that is the minimum pressure on the sidewall. Per Jan, these Extra Legers need 10% more pressure than the standard Hetre's, so I think we're stuck with 55 on the front.

tarwheel 

Nice bike. What kind is it? I'm also wondering what kind of rims you are using on the wheels. I like the black-and-tan look, and one of my commuter bikes has that color scheme. I may have to get some skinwall tires after I wear out the Conti GP 4 Seasons that are one it now.

I am not surprised that you are noticing bumpy roads more since you lost weight because you also lost a lot of "padding" in the rear. My black bike is a Gunnar Sport, which I expected to have a cushy ride since it is a sport touring model with a longer wheelbase. However, it's actually a very stiff frame, apparently due to the larger tubing, so I've swapped the 25 mm tires for 28s. The 28s are a huge improvement. Perhaps I'll try some of the Grand Bois tires next to continue the black-and-tan theme or go the cheap route with some Panaracer Paselas. My most comfortable tires of all time were Michelin ProRace3 25s, which were actually closer to 28s in size. I've also got some Vittoria Randonneur Hyper 32s that are very comfy, but they are huge compared to 28s and weigh a lot more. Great for riding but not climbing hills.

Burton

Very cool!

acidfast7

interesting ...

however, i would wager that it's not total weight in a wheelset that matter, but rather how that weight is distributed across the wheel diameter, meaning that you should really being weighing the tires/tubes as they'd produce more a penalty as they're further away from the hub.

is that correct when one considered rolling weight (as the required torque would be greater?)

corwin1968

I think 700c bikes look very cool with wide tires and I agree that the black and skinwall look just accentuates that.

I really want to try the Grand Bois Cypres but I'm concerned about durability given that I weigh about 380 lbs. I went from 38mm Nimbus Armadillos to 32mm Vittoria Randonneur Hypers and it was a night-and-day difference. The Hypers are fairly high TPI (120) but they still have triple layer flat protection so I know that has some detrimental affect on the feel of the ride. I'd love to try pure performance tires and I expect the Cypres tires would be a similar jump in performance as I experienced during my last tire switch.

acidfast7

also, does the 559 in Tektro really mean 559mm (ISO for a MTB wheel)?

dramiscram

Nice bike!
What kind of bag is on the top tube?
Where can I look to get one?

ThermionicScott 

It's just a product number. The 556 is identical, but has recessed-nut mounting.

SlowRoller

Ah, that sounds like a good range. I carry my kid on a rear kid seat (~195 lbs. total including me + child + seat) on a standard Hetre at 55 psi. I also sometimes use the bike for touring with about 30+ lbs. of gear and racks on the front, which I start off at 50 psi. I usually let them run down to a little over 40 psi before I pump them up. Also, just out of curiosity, what frameset is that?

Chesha Neko

Surly Steamroller. Originally purchased as a complete bicycle, but I've changed everything but the frame, fork, and headset. The rims are Pacenti PL23, which appear the lightest rim-brake compatible rims available right now.



The hub weight matters too, but the rim and tire matter more. I suppose if we are being picky we would weigh just the tire, rim, and tube and compare, but in this case the Surly high flange hub and the Miche high flange hub both weigh the same, so it becomes moot. I just forked over some money for some extra-light tubes to get rid of the extra 50 grams on the 650Bs.

Revelate Designs "Tangle frame bag"

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...=1&ProductID=5

manapua_man

Changing the saddle might be something to consider. I've never found that the tires made all that much of a difference in comfort over long distances, unless they're seriously fat and knobby and I'm trying to go for speed when touring.

Rick@OCRR

Beautiful bike; looks great with those wheels and tires! Never tried 650 sized wheels/tires myself but they great on your bike!

Rick / OCRR

Chesha Neko

I did, went from an unpadded to a paddded one. That was nice when I was bruised, but the padded one is now a bit too padded. Trying yet another one today.

Thank you. I'm going to try them for awhile then maybe give a review for the community. Most perspectives on 650B are written by the rando crowd, not commuter/utility cyclists.

Chesha Neko

Just discovered IRD makes a 76mm reach caliper that should be perfect. I suppose this is part of the fun of these kinds of builds, right?