I-Like-To-Bike

Can you be more specific:
What is "biff"? What is a "Cat 7" safety nanny?

What type of "learned cycle skills" will enable cyclists to walk away from what type of "crashes"? Specifically what learned skills will reduce injury severity to insignificant after collisions with moving motor vehicles? Not interested in cyclist collisions with non moving objects or falling from some other cyclist error.

rubic

Anybody else notice how difficult it is to keep you cool when so many other people around you are angry?

spare_wheel

There were no collisions with motor vehicles in the video I was commenting on.

I-Like-To-Bike

OK, is it safe to say then that your comment about "learned skills" reducing or preventing injuries after a "crash" has nothing to do with collisions with motorized vehicles?

I'd prefer emphasizing skills that prevent/reduce collisions with others or single vehicle crashes.

One skill I learned is to avoid hot dogging and acting like a jackass on a bike just to impress people who are impressed by that kind of behavior. Cheap video cameras and YouTube seems to encourage such goofball behavior from cyclists who have not developed that skill.

spare_wheel

: Get off my lawn!

SpeshulEd 

Well, I'm not spare_wheel but perhaps I can help.

"biff" is a slang word meaning fall...eating pavement.
Cat 7, I'm guessing is referring to racing, one of the beginning levels of...I'm not a racer, maybe one day for fun, but usually people in higher categories don't want to race with people in lower categories mostly because those people aren't as experienced, don't know how to fall, etc.

The video I posted shows a few crashes, one I can think of right now is where one of the riders cuts through an intersection and timed his line wrong...he could either get t-boned by the car or do what he did, where he looked like a baseball player sliding into second. Obviously this takes riding skill and being aware of your surroundings, at the last possible second when you know you won't make your line, you throw your back wheel (keep in mind these are fixed gear riders with no brakes, whip skidding is the fastest way to stop for them) into a skid, and lay down the bike. Sure you might end up with some road rash on your leg but that beats flipping over a car. There's another where a guy reaches a check point, can't stop completely, and just tucks and rolls off his bikes.

I'm by no means a pro and to be completely honest before a couple of months ago, I hadn't ridden a bike in nearly 15 years but the more I'm on it the more it becomes an extension of me. I agree with your comment about hot dogging, but feel that some hot dogging can be skill as well. Some people might think those folks in the video are being hot dogging jerks, I personally think they're using the best possible tool to get around the city and using that tool in the most efficient manner. It might not be for everyone but there are far worse things happening in NYC than bike messengers making their way through city traffic.

I-Like-To-Bike

Thanks for defining the cryptic jargon, though Cat 7 safety nanny apparently is jargon whose meaning is only known to one BF poster.

The crashes as described all sound as if they are they are the result of the cyclist's inability to time traffic and/or temper his speed to maintain upright in traffic. None of them demonstrate how this cyclist's "learned skills" will protect him if and when he crashes with a moving vehicle.

MuddKatt

No matter what your skill level is, you still cannot, continuously, second guess the guy in the car. Just takes one hit from a drunk or inattentive driver to ruin a life .......for what purpose.

wbuttry

Ok ride a bike answer me this you are going down hill on a bicycle pretty quick and a car backs out in front of you from a drive way and it is real close don't have time to go around cause car is steadily backing out what is gonna happen. 1 You will either lay your bike down and slide to a stop or you will pole vaught over the car with out the pole and no mat on the other side. choice 1 you may only get road rash but. 2 You are looking at broken legs broken arm busted skull or worse a coffin what speshuled was getting at learning to crash voluntary or learn to crash unvolutaty. learning to crash the rite way can and will save your life. I rather slide and my bike and it get ran over than it being me and if hot dogging is what it takes to save your life then by all means do it but be safe and learn how to do it correctly .

spare_wheel

competitive cycling slang:

Cat 6 == commuter or gutter bunny
Cat 7 == fred or safety nanny

PS: i am a commuter and often fredly so please do not be offended

wolfchild

Oh geez !!..what's up with all these different "categories" ?? Who is it that comes up with all these ideas and interpretations to categorize cyclists and divide them into different groups ??.. Me personally I don't give a **** what category somebody else thinks I am in.

wphamilton

I agree with this one. After the collision is a crap shoot regardless of your skills. Avoiding the situation to begin with is the more valuable skill.

KD5NRH

French people.

wbuttry

That video is cool except them jumping in traffic the wrong direction and acting like arses. But that is youngsters. I acted wild like that when I was younger. I did bicycle tours and enjoyed being gone a month at a time and that I though was wild. But young people think speed and turn on a dime is fun when young yes it is. But when you get older you realize you hurried for what reason ?

I-Like-To-Bike

Not offended; just skeptical of some of your safety related claims or your understanding of risk reduction.

On another note, suggest you rely less on using undefined slang and cryptic terms that few people (if any) outside of your PDX associates ever use. Unless being understood is not your intent.

prathmann

I disagree. The coefficient of friction between your rubber tires and a typical road surface is substantially higher than between the same road and your clothing, skin, assorted bike parts, etc. that would contact the road after you lay the bike down.

So if there's enough room to come to a stop by sliding then there's more than enough room to stop while keeping the bike upright and shifting your weight back far enough to avoid an endo.

Conversely, if there's not enough room to come to a stop while upright and you do end up doing a pole-vault over the car then the alternative would have been to slide into and probably under the car. My one experience doing the former resulted in no injuries to myself at all although my front fork was a total loss (and promptly paid for by the motorist's insurance). I'm not at all sure that I would have been so lucky if I had slid under the car while it was still moving.

spare_wheel

the force from coefficient of friction depends on surface area (e.g. contact patch vs body skidding/rolling). when it comes to slamming into vehicles or stationary objects laying your bike down may make sense.

dynodonn

A couple of years ago, I had a woman keep on yelling at me to ride in the bike lane when there was no bike lane, then jump out of her car at a stop and ransack my panniers looking for my ID. In her state of rage, it's good thing that she didn't start a body search. No wrecks though, plus she was inspiration for me to ride with video cams ever since.

degnaw

Falling on purpose seems like a really odd way to avoid an accident. In this case, for instance, I came pretty much to a stop within twelve feet from about 17mph, so I can't really see how it's beneficial over simply braking.

prathmann

Sure there are times when laying the bike down could make sense*, but the scenario given by wbuttry isn't one of them. And his post indicated that by laying the bike down you could "slide to a stop" - not slide under or into a still moving vehicle. If there's enough room so that friction from sliding will bring you to a stop then applying decent brakes will also be able to bring you to a stop in a much safer and controlled manner.

* One example where sliding would make sense would be if one has entered a sharp turn on a mountain road with too much speed - better to lay the bike down (low-siding) and slide into the guard rail than to stay upright, hit the guard rail and flip over it and down the cliff.

enigmaT120

Even in your example, I think laying it down is the wrong way to think. I would try to make the corner. The result will probably be the same -- low siding -- but if you try to make the corner, you might actually do it.

kmv2

haha yeah, I think I realized the futility in arguing with a cager after a HUMMER H3 decided to drive up and chase me down a sidewalk. I turned and thought "wow, he really is mental" and got out of there.

Leebo

I try to ignore. Some times I shout, " I like jelly doughnuts" or " Jesus loves you" sometimes it's " Share the road" . I do keep a Mass Bike MA road rules copy with me and have shared it with a few drivers. Remember there are the 1% of the population idiots out there. Overall the MA/ Boston bike scene has gotten a lot better in the last 3 years or so.

kmv2

You see a lot of idiotic selfish behavior on the road, but then again there are the good things;

I was out riding with some people last week and a little girl stopped, gasped and yelled with a smile on her face as we approached "Mommy! Look! Bikes!" and we all smiled huge and waved at her. This is the end of winter with some snow still out, so I guess she can't wait to get on her own bike.

juggleaddict

on the bike I'm content with mumbling terrible things about the driver to myself...

on the unicycle I'm too busy navigating the streets to worry about hecklers.

Don't get hit, play defense, anything beyond that is unimportant past your own ego.