noisebeam

It sure looks like one (divided, no intersections, on ramps, 65mph limit, cars probably going 75mph) and I don't have a problem with a BL on this type of road. But do we know if this same road is safer with a BL vs. WOL?
Al

Helmet-Head

I think you're right, and there's the problem I've been trying to explain to Diane (sbhikes). Let me try another approach (to explain the same thing, a different way).

ASSUMPTIONS:
A typical lane to the left of a bike lane is 10 feet wide (they can be as narrow as 9 feet).
Cyclists typically ride on or just right of the BL stripe.
Cyclists need about 1 meter (3 feet) of safety margin space on either side - measured from the outside of the cyclist. This is a buffer required in case the cyclist needs to make a sudden evasive maneuver to avoid hitting an obstacle. 1 meter is a standard approximate measure. Expert cyclists need less space than novices (one of the skills taught in LAB's Road 1 course, borrowed from Forester's EC program, is to learn to dodge obstacles with minimal lateral movement).
A typical cyclist is about 1.5 -2 feet wide. I'm going to assume 2 feet for sake of simplicity.

Now, let's do the math.

Say the cyclist is riding on the stripe - that's where his center his. So, to his left his furthest left edge is approximately a foot out into the vehicular travel. Add the 3 foot safety margin to that, and your safety buffer extends 4 feet into the 10 foot lane. So, in order for cars to safely pass a cyclist riding on the stripe, they have to stay within the 6 foot wide region along the left side of the 10 foot wide lane, assuming they adjust their lateral position to move all the way, which they rarely do when the cyclist is riding in an adjacent BL. Do you see the problem?

An average car is about 6 feet wide. Generally, the maximum legal width of vehicle is 8.5 feet (102").
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d15/vc35100.htm

So even if a cyclist is riding 2 feet into the bike lane, which cyclists don't do very often, a wide but legal vehicle cannot safely pass the cyclist even if it's traveling along the left edge of the lane (the distance would be 1.5 to the BL stripe, plus 1 to the cyclist - a total of only 2.5, close, but technically still too close. And remember, that's if the vehicle is all the way left - which motorists rarely bother to do when passing a cyclist in a BL, and the cyclist is 2 feet into the BL - which cyclists often don't do.

Even with an 11 or 12 foot lane adjacent to the BL, it's very unlikely for motorists to pass cyclists in BLs with an adequate 3 foot safety margin, because motorists rarely adjust their lateral lane position when passing cyclists riding in an adjacent bike lane.

Now consider what happens in a WOL. Here, the cyclist has much more control. Legally, the cyclist has the right-of-way in the lane. But because of the lack of a separating stripe, motorists are much less comfortable passing a cyclist as closely as they do no problem when there is a separating stripe - so they are much more likely to adjust their later lane position to increase the passing safety margin. If we take the same 10 foot lane + 4 (usually 5, but we'll go with 4) foot wide BL, and erase the BL stripe, we have a 14 foot wide WOL. Now, normally, when there are no cyclists on the road, some small but sufficient number of motorists drive far enough to the right of the WOL to have the sweeping effect clean the WOL from edge to edge. Nobody I know who has really looked into this issue disputes this point. It's confirmed on every ride I go on. The sweeping effect of motor traffic is directly proporotional to typical speed and volume of traffic. On one extreme you have freeways, where no street sweeping is ever needed! Ever wonder why? On slow residential streets where volume and speeds are very low, the sweeping effect is less, but who cares? It's enough, and the whole BL issue is moot there. So the only roads we're really talking about are where the traffic volume and speeds are such that there is a lot of sweeping going on. Anyway, in a typical 14 foot WOL a cyclist rides about 3 feet from the right edge. Adding his own 2 foot width plus the 3 foot margin on his left, puts the left edge of his safety margin buffer 8 feet into the lane, leaving 6 feet for the cars. This is why 14 feet is considered the minimum width for a WOL.

When a motorist comes upon a cyclist in a 14 foot WOL riding 3 feet from the right edge, he naturally adjust his speed and position when passing to the left of the cyclist. Wider vehicles may encroach on that space, or the cyclist may choose to move a foot closer to the right edge, but, in general, the average passing margin between motor vehicles and cyclists is much better in a WOL than in the same lane divided into a vehicular lane and a bike lane.

In a 15 or 16 foot WOL, it's even better.

Now consider adding a 5 foot wide BL stripe to that 16 foot WOL. Now you have an 11 foot wide vehicular lane, where motorists tend to drive right down the center, regardless of the presence of cyclists riding along the left edge of the BL, and hence you're back to the same problem: motorists passing cyclists in the BL too closely. The right side of a 6 foot wide car centered in an 11 foot wide lane is 2.5 feet from the edge. If they cyclist is riding near the stripe, his left side extends 1 foot into the vehicular lane, cutting that 2.5 feet to 1.5 feet. And that's with 16 feet of pavement allocated to the vehicular and bike lane, and a standard width car.

The fact that motorists treat cyclists in bike lanes as if they're not even there is not a good thing, for the cyclists. But it's perfectly natural and understandable, because it's consistent with how motorists treat other vehicles in adjacent lanes.

sbhikes

Oh, that sbhikes. If only she would see the light and come to Jesus.

Not a chance. You go ahead and use your body as a traffic-calming measure. You go ahead and ride in an unmarked portion of the lane where a day-dreaming motorist might not see you. Count me out of your little religious experiment.

Bruce Rosar

Where To Ride
see figures 1 and 4
Typical Street (parking lanes could be removed)
New York City street
Two bicyclists riding on a street
Bicycles On Street
Bicycles in the Street

Additional requested research will be at my usual hourly rate, cash in advance

genec

Well decided to go out and do a little jaunt today between rains... just a little 20 mile ride to loosen the legs. Part of the ride was in an area that, while it does have WOL, has cars parked the whole way… So I ride in the right tire track of this 35MPH 4 lane (2 each way)road, and naturally the motorists come up behind me, don’t seem to know what to do, hesitate and finally realize that I am not moving. Then they have to negotiate with each other and either slip a bit to the left or take the other lane. Now this just goes on for about 2 miles. Then the road widens to three lanes… still a WOL, but far less cars parked on the side… my comfort level goes up. There are numerous shopping centers along this way, so I still maintain my right tire track… but with three lanes, heck the motorists would have to be blind to not figure out that they can easily go around me. And have to be blind to not see me in my red shirt and yellow/green vest. So no problem. Then I get to the bike lane area. I still have to signal and negotiate with the motorists at the intersections and driveways, but otherwise, the comfort level goes way up… the motorists stay in their marked lanes and assume that I will stay to the right of the line.

Hey here is one advantage of a Bike Lane… I don’t have to negotiate with each and every motorist that may want to pass me or has to hesitate to try to figure out what I am doing or what they should do. Of course, I do indeed negotiate with a few motorists when I want to turn left and when I come to intersections, but otherwise, they stay on one side of the line and I stay on the other. Oddly enough, that strip of paint doesn’t appear to make me invisible at all. Now a bit of explanation here regarding these particular bike lanes… There are NO cars parked on the side of the road… Could they be WOL… well probably… as long as there were no cars parked along the same roads, I would probably bike in just the same locations… just a few feet from the curb. But with the WOL, the drivers could be anywhere centered in the lane, with the BL, they stay to the left, no problem, and I don’t have to deal** with each and every one. ** semantics… IE: negotiate, or wonder how long they are going to tail me, or wonder when they will “get it,” and simply move on in the remaining space.

Now on the way back I am bit tired… I pushed hard earlier and hit 26MPH, but only averaged 13. So I am near my neighborhood again going up a slight uphill, back into the area with the WOL, no Bike Lanes, and of course cars lining the side of the 4 lane divided road… 2 lanes in either direction.

The parked cars offer no breaks. I am riding just like a motorist would drive… stopping behind the cars at the lights, staying in the right tire track… just like a motorist… or perhaps a motorcycle… which would be closer in description… Except for one little thing, I am doing 13MPH in a 35 zone. So riding along parallel to the parked cars, about 5 feet out, in the auto right tire track, and sure enough here it comes… Some lady in an old Mercedes with honestly the funniest hair I have ever seen (looked like clown hair) honks at me. So I turn around and wave. She honks again and screams “move over.” Well as luck would have it, and the very reason I am where I am, right ahead is someone getting out of a parked car, door wide open. No way am I going into that long door zone, thank you… I’ll stay here. The yelling, honking lady (remember there is another lane, and this is NOT rush hour traffic) seems to have empowered someone else. He drives by in his Toyota truck… honking and yelling too… “Move over…”

I am sticking to my spot. After all, I am a legal vehicle, there are cars parked along the side of the road and the motorists behind me have a whole lane they can move into.

So what was wrong with this picture? What could I have done? What should I have done? What would you do?

Was I intimidated? No… I was actually laughing (inside) at her crazy hair. I thought their actions were small minded and rude. I was more “intimidated” by the motorists earlier that drove up behind me and hesitated, apparently not knowing what to do. Would a BL have helped… well honestly moving all the parked cars would have been the best solution. But with a BL, the motorists seem to understand that I will be in a particular place unless I tell them otherwise. With a WOL, they seemed to wonder. BTW not a single BL had collected any trash or anything that might otherwise that might have caused me to leave it. The right tire track however in many areas was quite a mess… being torn up no doubt from the combination of rains and car use.

sbhikes

That's my experience, too.

I don't like "negotiating" with every damned motorist who can't figure out what to do either. It's annoying.

It doesn't just happen to cyclists, either. I used to drive a beater that couldn't go over 55 without shaking violently, so rather than waste money fixing it, I put a big sign in the back window that said "Can't go faster, go around." It's like all of a sudden these dolts finally understood what to do with a motorist going 55 on the freeway. Before that, they couldn't figure it out, would tailgate me, would get angry. After I made the sign, they'd pull around, laugh, wave, give me the "right-on" or whatever.

Hmm. I wonder if that would work on my bike?

Anyway, I really do find the peace of mind that the motorist gets from the bike lane worth it to me. It makes it a lot easier. When there's a really wide outside lane and no parking, that's pretty good, too, but we don't have wide roads in Santa Barbara, so the bike lanes do what a football field of asphalt might do somewhere else.

It's not about intimidation. It's about annoyance. It's bad enough I have to be an ambassador to recumbency everywhere I go, I don't want to also have to add training motorists how to deal with cyclists to my agenda everytime I just want to go from point A to point B.

Bruce Rosar

Once I just turned up the audio on the earbuds and chilled out. Another time I just didn't feel like being a verbal punching bag, and I drowned out whatever they were yelling by screaming back their license plate data (so I could remember it when I filed the police report). That was mentally satisfying, but left my vocal chords quite sore the last time
As you're likely well aware, not being visible is negative. Maneuvers that are not predictable are also negative. Wonder can be positive. Other drivers (whether pedal or motor) tend to slow down and give everyone more time to figure things out when they're wondering. In other words; let'm wonder if you will be predictable, but don't ever surprise them when you maneuver.

genec

Well turning up the audio is rather "a head in the sand" kinda move and illegal here. (no headphones) Not to mention that it doesn't resolve the issue of irratated drivers... which can lead to road rage. The thing that really got me was the one driver empowering another... While it was only two drivers... it obviously would not have taken much for that to escalate even more.

"As you're likely well aware, not being visible is negative. "

Never said I was NOT visible... as some seem to assume... just that the drivers knew that unless otherwise notified, they were to keep on truckin' on their side of the line. With a WOL, there was lots of wondering going on... that driver slowing down thing again can lead to incidents on the road... No, they have not been documented, but I can where folks may want to "vent" at an "offender."

BTW I rather agree with SBHIKES that it does get old having to "teach" each and every motorist out there that it is OK to pass or change lanes.

Helmet-Head

"Obviously" to one who is conditioned to focus on the rocks...


I've learned to enjoy it. Like many things in life, it comes down to attitude.


By the way, glad to hear you got those pedals cranking again. I look forward to going on a ride together some time. Perhaps a "tour de pubs" would be to your liking? Karl Strauss La Jolla up to Karl Strass Sorrento Valley. Callahans in Mira Mesa. Some place in Kearney Mesa, then a bar in Claremont. Perhaps hit a couple places in PB, a bar in Bird Rock or Wind N' Sea, and back to La Jolla! How's that sound?

genec

Originally Posted by genec
...it obviously would not have taken much for that to escalate even more.

Rocks don't move, nor do they gang up on you... When two drivers are yelling at you at the same point, it does not take much more to escalate that.



Oh I've been riding, just not commuting right now, due to the rains and the current hours I work...

RE the beer... sorry, I don't drink.

Helmet-Head

We could skip the beer stops...