Hear, hear!

Thank you, you have crazy legal system.

The EU countries all have different requirements and the German StVZO rules are the strictest. So there is no simple rule that can tell whether a bicycle lamp is EU-legal (i.e. whether it's legal to use on all public roads in the EU, well, ok, by complying with StVZO you're fairly certain, but then you also need the K-markings for Germany, France and Uk have their own sets etc. It won't work to say "This is legal because it is legal in my country" because the rules have not been harmonised and each country may have their own rules in various areas).

The other conclusion that is inferred in all of this is that EU eyes, and apparently German eyes in particular, are much weaker than say "first world" eyes or even those in the Netherlands (who have essentially thrown out their bicycle light rules - good for them!) since the EU and Germans are apparently "blinded" by lights with symmetric beams. As opposed to here in the "first world" where pedestrians and drivers often will say "Nice Lights" to those of us with even more blindingly bright (apparently to only German and "first world" eyes though) than Magicshine ones.

Again, for people who don't seem to be blinded by automobile headlamps, it seems quite strange that this has become a weighty problem for just those who have to look at people riding bicycles at night. It sure does look like it's keeping a lot of bureaucrats employed writing all of those bicycle light regulations. In fact, this might be a good time to propose a new Bud Light commercial - "We salute you, Mr. Bicycle Light Regulation Writer Man!"


J.

You didn't read anything did you?

:sigh:

:facepalm:

If I put this at the rear:
http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/TL-LD155-R/

And this on the bars:
http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/HL-EL010/

Will I be legal in Germany, or do I have to have a hub/dynamo bicycle mounted lights?


From a friend who's lived (not just travelled) in many European countries, I've heard that:
"Germany is the country where everything works, no fuss or complications, but it is much more relaxed than other regulated countries like Switzerland for example."


My mentality would probably fit better in Italy though. :)

Per capita is only one way of looking at the data. As a market, i.e. total number of bicycle sales and ownership, the US is a behemoth. With 100 million bikes on the road and 13 million annual sales, the US market is larger than the combined markets of 8 of the countries on the list. Only China is has a larger market.

Good thing that the EU now has 28 countries.

20M bikes are sold per year in the EU market ...

data here (page 18):

http://www.coliped.com/docs/issuu/Eu...ion%202012.pdf

That crushes the US by at least 50%.

Calling the dynamo market a niche market lies somewhere between naïve and ignorant.

Not legal for road usage because the front light doesn't have a beam height/beam distance limiter.

I like Germany. It's no fuss and works really well. It's also quite cheap.

I'd rather go on holiday elsewhere, including an annual Easter trip to Tuscany for a week or so or to Romania/Hungary for some horseback riding in the countryside. But, day to day life in Germany is quite pleasant.

You really are a literal person, aren't you?

:sigh:

:facepalm:

J.

edit: seems that the US market is quite close:

http://nbda.com/articles/industry-ov...-2012-pg34.htm

although I don't have access to the raw data.

my arguments stands: calling dynamos a niche market really shows a failure to understand the bicycle market in the West (or first-world, if you choose).

I get paid to be literal and to teach the next generation of scientists. No room for error. I still think you're ignorant of the cycling market.

Well, you just enjoy your dynamos in your over regulated "first world" then. Hey, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


J.

:lol:

i lived in extensively in both places (US/EU) as has most of my colleagues and most choose one over the other. i leave it you to decide which way you think the split goes.

QED

Thought so.

J.

A little contentious, aren't we!

:p

Well, good for them. Perhaps the EU will start to drive the bicycle market in the future but I doubt it. The US has driven the bicycle market since the mid70 and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Every innovation for the last 30+ years has come out of the US market or been the result of demand by the US market. Mountain bikes and mountain bike technology has been the main driver, mostly because the UCI doesn't allow for innovation in the road bike market.

The dynamo market is a niche market, at least in the US. I read an article on Peter White in Adventure Cycling this morning in which he talked about his first order of Schmidt hubs. He order 75 of them and it was the largest order that Schmidt had ever had to fill. This was several years ago, but the dynamo market is still very small. Peter White is a giant in that market and he still works out of his basement. The high end battery powered light people probably sell more units per week (and they don't sell all that many units) than he does in year. The "been seen" light market probably sells more in a week than White has ever sold.

Personally, I glad the US doesn't work under the German StVZO regulation. If those regulations were in place in the US, the bicycle would be seen as more of a toy than it is now. Low light output doesn't mean that a cyclist is safer, it just means that they don't get seen. I have never been in a night riding situation where I thought that less light would make me safer. I've actually ridden under low output lights...I've been doing this for 30+ years and have seen just about everything that can make light being used...and I wouldn't go back to them. Multiple bright lights makes others see me as a road user. The whole point is to confuse a driver into thinking that the lights coming at him are something that he might want to pay attention to. I see the confusion every time I go out at night. Motorists wait for a very long time at stopsigns when they look my direction because they can't quite process what is coming at them. It makes them more cautious and, as a result, makes them drive in a manner that is safer for me. I don't blind them...I'm not a jerk...but I do get their attention.

cyccommute, it must take a lot of effort to misunderstand so much. OK, sorry. That was nasty. But come on. It's not that lower light makes you safer, it's that it makes others safer and perhaps there is a level above which you get no benefit.

Sometimes regulation stifles innovation. Sometimes it raises the bar and spurs innovation. There is no one predictable outcome, and it is not fruitless to try to regulate a market.

Good for the US. It is behind.

Everything else is anecdotal.

As far as driving the market ... :lol:

Bicycles for recreation and as toys perhaps ... bicycles for utilities and day-to-day use ... not even close.

I think Noglider's is the biggest! :)


Those German regulated lights and dynamos work well and shine nicely.

Apparently these are much more spottier. Some vendors are now selling the head lights only, for those who have the batteries already.

http://www.lightmalls.com/solarstorm...head-lamp-only

You can only use that light is you are willing to rock the beehive as well;)

my light finally arrived yesteday. I ordered it on Sept 24 and it arrived Oct 15. $40 for supposed 2000 lumens. I like it so far and it seems pretty bright compared to my PB superflash i was using before. I can see and be seen with it.