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-   -   Afraid of the dark (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/922777-afraid-dark.html)

noglider 11-20-13 04:06 PM

Yes, stuff happens, but not too often with dynamo lights. I've had failures, but not many. Sometimes, when I'm feeling unlucky, I bring a battery flashlight just in case, but that's pretty rare. And sometimes I bring two tail lights. Two blinkies flashing at different frequency are probably a good attention getter.

One thing I've seen in NYC that I think is cute and clever is having two headlights on the sides of a very wide Wald front basket. Having two widely spaced headlights gives one a feel of perspective, since as the vehicle approaches, you can estimate the approaching speed.

Giant Doofus 11-20-13 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16263623)
Yes, stuff happens, but not too often with dynamo lights. I've had failures, but not many. Sometimes, when I'm feeling unlucky, I bring a battery flashlight just in case, but that's pretty rare. And sometimes I bring two tail lights. Two blinkies flashing at different frequency are probably a good attention getter.

One thing I've seen in NYC that I think is cute and clever is having two headlights on the sides of a very wide Wald front basket. Having two widely spaced headlights gives one a feel of perspective, since as the vehicle approaches, you can estimate the approaching speed.

That's a really great idea. I've also been looking at light placement, though, and wondering whether it might make more sense to mount lights to the fork.

alan s 11-21-13 01:01 AM

As helmet lights become more common, I would say the high/low lights front and rear is the most effective lighting technique. Nothing else out there looks like that, so motorists and bike riders immediately recognize you as a bike.

curly666 11-21-13 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by Giant Doofus (Post 16263643)
That's a really great idea. I've also been looking at light placement, though, and wondering whether it might make more sense to mount lights to the fork.

This works for me, usually run the top two in flashing mode.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351831http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351832

Null66 11-21-13 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by gregjones (Post 16260934)
+1

I have driven vehicles ranging from motorcycles, sports cars, station wagons and several million miles worth of big trucks. Every last one of them has had a blind spot. It is a fool that make a maneuver trusting only his mirrors.

On the motorcycles I rode, now considered vintage, the mirrors bounced to the point of not being any more than a legal appointment. We turned and looked before we moved.

I don't use a mirror on a bike because I'm gonna turn and look anyway. There's no way that I would trust a mirror to move myself and bike into what at a minimum would be 10 to 15 times bigger than me and moving two to five time faster. I'll look.

Use a mirror if you care.

For cars: Most people set the mirrors incorrectly creating blind spots. The image in each mirror is supposed to overlap by just a touch. Most people set the mirrors to see the same image from slightly different angles.

I use mirrors on my brifters and when properly adjusted see the lane and behind me quite well. I still do head checks in many situations, but not all.

Giant Doofus 11-21-13 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by curly666 (Post 16265121)

I like this setup. How did you go about attaching them? Can you buy some kind of mount for that arrangement, or did you rig something up?

alan s 11-21-13 12:13 PM

I want my lights within reach so I can adjust the aim and brightness, so the handlebars are the only place on my bike I'll mount a headlight. What is the advantage of mounting on the fork?

ItsJustMe 11-21-13 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16266051)
I want my lights within reach so I can adjust the aim and brightness, so the handlebars are the only place on my bike I'll mount a headlight. What is the advantage of mounting on the fork?

Not possible to use the bars with a handlebar bag on there. That's why I got rid of my handlebar bag.

Also the lower the light, the more contrast you get on potholes. Helmet lights are almost useless for spotting potholes.

Ozonation 11-21-13 02:35 PM

Looks like everybody has pretty much weighed in on this topic. I almost prefer riding at night: yes, I'm less visible, and there might be more crazies on the road, but this is offset by significantly fewer cars and arguably, fewer people rushing around to and from work and other business commitments. Riding at night is somewhat liberating too, and perhaps just a bit more thrilling because it is a bit more risky. ;)

And like others, I prefer not to ride at dusk when the sun is setting. Light conditions are changing too fast, in the winter months drivers are rushing home at that time, and things are just unsettled.

That being said, I have both a powerful front light and a blinking back light, reflectors, and preferably, brighter clothing. I've also attached a blinking red LED to my helmet for added visibility. I also try to be more vigilant and not assume a driver can see me. Once, while I was driving, I was startled because a cyclist literally materialized in front of me going the other way. Dark clothes, dark bike, no reflectors, no lights -just a shape moving through the darkness.

I considered more reflective clothing, like a vest, but I often carry a messenger bag or back pack, so it would cover up the vest. I then thought of fixing some reflective markings permanently on my bag, but they would have to be necessarily larger than normal to be effective, and so would ruin the bag's utility in non-cycling situations (think business settings. Also, I don't always cycle with the same bag or pack.

I guess what I need is a large, removable reflector that I can clip onto either me (if I have no bag) or the bag itself.

Suggestions?

mstraus 11-21-13 02:54 PM


Originally Posted by Ozonation (Post 16266456)
Looks like everybody has pretty much weighed in on this topic. I almost prefer riding at night: yes, I'm less visible, and there might be more crazies on the road, but this is offset by significantly fewer cars and arguably, fewer people rushing around to and from work and other business commitments. Riding at night is somewhat liberating too, and perhaps just a bit more thrilling because it is a bit more risky. ;)

And like others, I prefer not to ride at dusk when the sun is setting. Light conditions are changing too fast, in the winter months drivers are rushing home at that time, and things are just unsettled.

That being said, I have both a powerful front light and a blinking back light, reflectors, and preferably, brighter clothing. I've also attached a blinking red LED to my helmet for added visibility. I also try to be more vigilant and not assume a driver can see me. Once, while I was driving, I was startled because a cyclist literally materialized in front of me going the other way. Dark clothes, dark bike, no reflectors, no lights -just a shape moving through the darkness.

I considered more reflective clothing, like a vest, but I often carry a messenger bag or back pack, so it would cover up the vest. I then thought of fixing some reflective markings permanently on my bag, but they would have to be necessarily larger than normal to be effective, and so would ruin the bag's utility in non-cycling situations (think business settings. Also, I don't always cycle with the same bag or pack.

I guess what I need is a large, removable reflector that I can clip onto either me (if I have no bag) or the bag itself.

Suggestions?

I wear a backpack, which as some reflective material on the back. I also have tried to find gear that has some refective material on the sides where my backpack doesn't block.

You can get reflective tape that is designed to go on clothing or bags. I am not sure how well it sticks on, and it could be expensive to keep removing and adding. They also make "stealth" reflective in black that reflects white.

Many bags have a loop you can attach a light too. I suppose you could attache a reflector as well. Maybe something like a velcro reflective ankle strap could be attached somehow?.

Ozonation 11-21-13 03:41 PM


Originally Posted by mstraus (Post 16266512)
I wear a backpack, which as some reflective material on the back. I also have tried to find gear that has some refective material on the sides where my backpack doesn't block.

You can get reflective tape that is designed to go on clothing or bags. I am not sure how well it sticks on, and it could be expensive to keep removing and adding. They also make "stealth" reflective in black that reflects white.

Many bags have a loop you can attach a light too. I suppose you could attache a reflector as well. Maybe something like a velcro reflective ankle strap could be attached somehow?.

I was thinking of mounting a big reflective triangle (e.g., slow moving vehicle - ha ha) on some backing and then rigging that to whatever I was wearing - jacket or bag. Sometimes I'm a bit more dressed up and so the jacket I'm wearing is not the usual bright colour kaleidoscope variety! Maybe it could be attached to a big stretchy strap...

curly666 11-21-13 09:21 PM


Originally Posted by Giant Doofus (Post 16265927)
I like this setup. How did you go about attaching them? Can you buy some kind of mount for that arrangement, or did you rig something up?

I used a Minora swing grip, I mounted it underneath the stem so it hangs down, works good. I have two flashers on top and two main lights underneath upside down.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351957http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351960

Giant Doofus 11-21-13 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by curly666 (Post 16267521)
I used a Minora swing grip, I mounted it underneath the stem so it hangs down, works good. I have two flashers on top and two main lights underneath upside down.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351957http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351960

Huh. The things you learn on the bike forum. I had no idea a device like this even existed. Thanks! Think I'll give this a try.

Paramount1973 11-22-13 02:09 AM

I rode tonight on my commute. Strobing white LED in the front (I can see the strobe light reflecting from signs a hundred yards off or more), 300 lumen Terralux tactical flashlight fixed to my front rack as a headlight, a PDW Danger Zone tail light on zzzzZap mode in the back, and a rear facing red helmet blinky running in solid mode. I was wearing a hi-viz chrome yellow wind shell. I saw a couple of other commuters, also lit up in a similar fashion. That PDW tail light is visible from quite a ways off. Come to think of it, my MKS RMX pedals have front and rear reflectors on them.

curly666 11-22-13 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by Giant Doofus (Post 16267560)
Huh. The things you learn on the bike forum. I had no idea a device like this even existed. Thanks! Think I'll give this a try.

http://www.minoura.jp/english/access...#utilityholder

rumrunn6 11-22-13 08:24 AM

saw a guy last night with a really nice reflective jacket only to cover it with a dead dark black backpack w/o any reflective striping on it at all. he had a tiny rear strobe and I saw him but why note accentuate your rear facing visibility with a reflective backpack. just seems silly to use black.

Giant Doofus 11-22-13 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by curly666 (Post 16268019)

Thanks.

cyccommute 11-22-13 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16262997)
But consider that accident statistics are weighted toward mostly daytime riding.

That's hasn't been true for as long as I've been looking at accident statistics, which is 25+ years now. The Nation Highway Transportation Safety Administration has always broken accident statistics out into 4 hour blocks of the day. This report from the NHTSA for 2011 shows the breakdown for 2011 and 2010 in Table 2. The trend of higher fatality numbers for the 8 hours from 1600 to 2400 has been the norm for the 25 years I've been looking at the data. This particular report doesn't show the breakdown with time of day and age but I've seen that kind of data elsewhere as well as breakdowns of injuries and time.

Granted most of the fatalities (and injuries which track the fatality data) occur to people who are going Ninja. But it's a good idea to use extra caution while riding at night. Having enough light to be obnoxious helps.

FBinNY 11-22-13 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 16269146)
That's hasn't been true for as long as I've been looking at accident statistics, which is 25+ years now. The Nation Highway Transportation Safety Administration has always broken accident statistics out into 4 hour blocks of the day. This report from the NHTSA for 2011 shows the breakdown for 2011 and 2010 in Table 2. The trend of higher fatality numbers for the 8 hours from 1600 to 2400 has been the norm for the 25 years I've been looking at the data. This particular report doesn't show the breakdown with time of day and age but I've seen that kind of data elsewhere as well as breakdowns of injuries and time.

Granted most of the fatalities (and injuries which track the fatality data) occur to people who are going Ninja. But it's a good idea to use extra caution while riding at night. Having enough light to be obnoxious helps.

You've read more into my statement than was there. I was responding to a general breakdown of accident types, which in the aggregate are skewed day/night simply because the vastly different number of cyclists on the road day vs. night.

mstraus 11-22-13 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by Giant Doofus (Post 16267560)
Huh. The things you learn on the bike forum. I had no idea a device like this even existed. Thanks! Think I'll give this a try.


A few companies make things like this, depending on need. Minora makes a couple models.

Others to consider:
http://problemsolversbike.com/produc...ccessory_mount
http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Mercha..._Code=PCHBM-01
http://www.benscycle.com/p-1566-nitt...-holder-2.aspx

Lets you mount lamps and other accessories galore!

KenshiBiker 11-22-13 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by Ozonation (Post 16266657)
I was thinking of mounting a big reflective triangle (e.g., slow moving vehicle - ha ha) on some backing and then rigging that to whatever I was wearing - jacket or bag. Sometimes I'm a bit more dressed up and so the jacket I'm wearing is not the usual bright colour kaleidoscope variety! Maybe it could be attached to a big stretchy strap...

Something like this perhaps?

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/re5.htm

Ozonation 11-22-13 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by KenshiBiker (Post 16269537)
Something like this perhaps?

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/re5.htm

EXACTLY. And what's even more embarrassing is that I have Rivendell bikes... never even occurred to me that they would sell this. :(

KenshiBiker 11-22-13 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by Ozonation (Post 16269594)
EXACTLY. And what's even more embarrassing is that I have Rivendell bikes... never even occurred to me that they would sell this. :(

Yup. I saw the Hillborne in your sig line. I thought of mentioning the irony, but figured I'd let it slide.

How do you like your Riv anyway? I was down at their store in Walnut Creek (even got to meet Grant P.) a few weeks ago. Unfortunately they didn't have any bikes my size to try out, but next spring I may be looking for a dedicated commuter bike and promised them I'd be back.

Ozonation 11-22-13 03:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by KenshiBiker (Post 16269634)
Yup. I saw the Hillborne in your sig line. I thought of mentioning the irony, but figured I'd let it slide.

How do you like your Riv anyway? I was down at their store in Walnut Creek (even got to meet Grant P.) a few weeks ago. Unfortunately they didn't have any bikes my size to try out, but next spring I may be looking for a dedicated commuter bike and promised them I'd be back.

Me and irony - story of my life!

I love my Rivendells. They are amazing bicycles. I know some cyclists think they are overrated and perhaps they are in a sense that if you know exactly what frame to buy and how to source and assemble a bike from the components, you could probably build a similar Rivendell for less money (but I'm guessing not for a lot less money). Me? I have neither the time nor ability to do so. Rivendell claims implicitly that if you want their bikes, they can advise you in such a way that their experience will produce the best bike for you, whether you agree or not. I have to say... they're right.

Rivendell bikes are uncomplicated, stylish, and tough. I cannot stand most of the colour schemes and finishes on most "modern" bikes: for me the colours are garish, they clash, and I don't want to adverstise (bike brand) in 1000 font size in blazing white. I also personally like the idea that I can easily adjust and fix things without too many tools or dedicated equipment. I have a fat bike too, and in anticipation of the upcoming winter weather, I spent 45 minutes yesterday trying to true the back disc rotor. Not hard, but it was a bit frustrating. I succeeded - mostly. The Rivendells aren't perfect, but I can more than live with what I think might be their imperfections.

And let's be blunt - I'm a bit vain. If you buy a Rivendell, you are, quite honestly, buying into a culture or lifestyle choice to some degree. Look at me! I'm an urban retro grouch! Eh, I don't pretend to be morally superior! :lol:

But you know, at the end of the day, it's about the ride: the bikes ride like silk and flow like water.

If you want one and you get one, you'll love it.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=352083http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=352084

cyccommute 11-22-13 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16269179)
You've read more into my statement than was there. I was responding to a general breakdown of accident types, which in the aggregate are skewed day/night simply because the vastly different number of cyclists on the road day vs. night.

I see no skewing of the data towards day time riders. If anything, the data for a very long time has shown a significant skewing towards night time riding. Considering that the bulk of rides are done during the daylight hours but the bulk of the fatalities happen from 1600 to 2400 that says that the accident statistics are weighted towards night time riding.


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