unaleona

Hi there,
So I've been bike commuting in DC for a year and a half, four miles each way from Columbia Heights to Rosslyn. I've been doing it on a '70s Maruishi 3 speed step through roadster. It was built as a knock off of the Raleigh roadsters of the same time period. I love this bike, and I've been in possession of it for about 8 years now. But the shifter cable is disintegrating, the back wheel needs replacement, and everything is pretty rusted. Fixing it up would probably be doable but doesn't feel worth it.

So I've decided to get a new bike. And though I'd like to buy a new-used bike at some point and really put the time in to building it up, this time I want it to be a new bike.

What I'm looking for is a new bike that is built in the style of my old bike, with some changes.

-Weight: My old bike weighs about 50 pounds and I have to carry it up and down two flights of stairs to get to the front door of my row house every day. I want something significantly lighter for carrying purposes, though it doesn't need to be fancy roadbike light. This is a big reason why I don't want to just put the money into fixing up my old bike, it will still be super heavy. ~30 pounds would be fine.

- Step over/step through: I'm fine to swing my leg over, and I do usually change clothes when I get to work. However sometimes I commute in my work clothes, and when I'm riding around for errands or fund after work and on weekends, I wear my normal clothes. I like the versatility of not having to worry so much about a skirt, though I know that lots of ladiesdo manage to wear skirts on diamond frame bikes.

-8 speed, internal hub: I really appreciate not having to fuss with the maintenance of derailleur gearing. I also have tested out a couple of hybrid type bikes with derailleurs and just don't like the way it feels to shift while pedaling when compared with the smooth, clean, shifts on my 3 speed. While on the hills in my commute I sometimes wish for derailleur gearing, I think it's mostly just that my bike is geared quite high and only has three speeds. I've decided that I want to go up to 8 speeds, internal on the new bike.

-I'd like to be able to ride for fun sometimes: This is a bit less clearly defined than the other needs, but also relevant. While this is primarily an around-town, commuting bike, I love biking and want to be able to do more recreational rides. The parks and trails here have some hills, and I've been pretty constrained as to what is fun to do on my current bike. I'm hoping that the new bike will be good enough for going out on rides for the fun of it.

Since I've saved some money and this bike is partly a gift, my budget is around $1000 ideally including add-ons.

Given these criteria, I've mainly been focusing in on the Linus and Public 8 speed mixtes, and have had the chance to test ride both. They are the right weight, approximately 32 and 30 pounds respectively. The Linus felt somewhat heavier when I lifted it, but when I looked up the specs I realized the actual weight difference shouldn't be noticeable. I’m able to lift the seats of both of them up to my shoulder for carrying, which is something I haven’t been able to do with my old bike.

In terms of stepoverability, it is possible to step over both of them, but definitely a lot more awkward than on my current bike. I think I'd either have to learn how to lean the bike to the side to step over, or would mainly need to swing my leg over the back. If I really needed to step over because of a skirt I think that I could, but I wasn’t wearing a skirt when I tested either bike.

I was able to test the Public on one of the major hills of my commute, the Linus I rode only on flatter roads. On both, the gearing felt much easier than the gears on my current bike, with first gear too low for anything but steep hills (which is what I’m looking for).

They both felt pretty comfortable, though the test rides were short. The Linus comes with more swept back handlebars, and the seat and the grips are leather. The Public comes with flatter handlebars, and an ugly grey/black vinyl seat. I like the aesthetic of the Linus better, but realize that I could eventually change out the handlebars and seat on the Public, and might even need to do that on the Linus as well given that people say the saddle is uncomfortable.

These are the bikes:
https://publicbikes.com/p/PUBLIC-m8i-2013
https://www.linusbike.com/products/mixte-8

My questions come down to two main ones:
1. Is there a noticeable quality difference between these bikes? Most reviews of Public and Linus by serious bike people are very disparaging, but I notice that they focus on their lowest end bikes. These are both chromoloy steel frames, and both have shimano nexus 8 internal hubs. They may not be as high quality as a Pashley, say, but they are not in the same category as the single speed hi-ten bikes at the lower end of each company’s range. Those reviews that do seem actually examine the mixtes seem to mention that the Public components are higher quality, but I am too ignorant about bikes to be able to tell much of a difference between their specs. I thought I’d notice a difference in feel when I tested them, but really didn’t. All the bike stores I’ve been to that carry one brand do not carry the other brand, so the staff at these stores either don’t feel able to comment on the other brand, or want to push the one they are selling. Public’s Bike is listed at $1099, Linus at $879, though I may be able to get some sort of sale at the LBS as it is January. Is the Public bike $200 nicer in some way? Especially given that I’ll probably eventually want to replace the handlebars and saddle? I'm happy to be talked into it, I just can't really tell.

2. Will a mixte like this be able to do much recreational riding? I don’t want to climb crazy hills or bike 100 miles, but I’d like to be able to go out with friends for fun and not have to make sure ahead of time that there will be no hills. I know that vintage mixtes were built as alternatives to diamond frame road bikes, but those were derailleur bikes, not set up with internal gears. Does the added road-bike-ness still come through in this 8 speed internal gear format? Or will the weight of them make them ride more like a step through, upright bike? I understand that this bike will be better designed for commuting than for going on long rides for fun, but will it be decent? If not, I’d feel like I should seriously reconsider a more step through, upright bike as I do appreciate the ease of mounting/dismounting that I have now. I’ve been focusing on mixte’s because I like the idea of something faster and lighter than a classic city bike. But if I won’t really get that benefit from these kinds of mixtes, I might want to look at buying a perfect commuter and then eventually getting a used, light roadbike with derailleur gearing.

Sorry to write something so long, I hope you’ve made it through to the end. I really appreciate your advice on these questions. And if people have recommendations on other ~$1000 mixtes with 8 speed hubs that I’ve missed, please let me know.

hartphoto 

I think the Linus is a slight bit ahead, IMHO. Both in looks, and in components. Put a Brooks Flyer S (or maybe a B67S), some Koolstop brake pads, and ride it for years.

fietsbob

why is having fun riding a bike on the weekends an obstacle requiring the Perfect Bike .

Quality . Heck they both are imported from a foreign factory, May even be the same one.

2 contracts.

Mixte is the specific frame style ,design ,
the 2 thin tubes running from the Top of the head-tube to the rear dropout .

rather than 1 larger tube running to the center of the seat tube.

there are lower step over frame designs, if that is a concern ..

as to other bikes , IDK what brands Your LBS sells .. Trek Cocoa is FS here ,
a Hub Upgrade is always an option done by the shop. not the factory.

CrankyOne

Linus seems to have a bit better reputation than Public, FWTW. A workcycles secret service might work, though might be a tad more than you want to spend and I'm not sure about the weight. 35lbs sticks in my head. Also consider that the price includes everything (rack, lites, dynamo, lock, etc.) People who have them seem to really love them though and I know a few people have done 30-50 mile rides on them. I wouldn't think you could beat it for riding in a dress (where's Dottie's blog when we need it?).

Also consider that bikes from Dutch folks like Workcycles, Batavus, Gazelle, Azor, and similar are much higher quality than a Linus or Public. They're usually powder coated paint, stainless hardware, higher quality components, tires, seats, etc. They're also more comfortable and stable to ride.

https://www.workcycles.com/home-produ...ce-ladies-bike

lostarchitect 

Personally, I don't think the Linus and Public bikes are all that much better than the Bikes Direct city bikes. They all come from asia and have similar specs, but the BD bikes are way cheaper. Check these out.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ensington8.htm

dynaryder

Only real differences between these is pretty much fit and cosmetics. If the shop will honor the sale price on Public's site,then pretty much whichever fits you best and looks the best to you is the right choice. Would def do a longer test ride on each before you buy.


actually,No....
they both have the Same
...700x35

fietsbob

Neither are sold around here, so i Guess from inadequate Info.

just go test ride them .. riding either will be fun , and I cannot offer a 1~10 scale for How Fun , either ..

Giant Doofus

I'm in the market for something very similar to what you want: An IGH step-through commuter that I can also use for recreational rides. I just did a test ride on the Linus mixte and really didn't like the feel of it. I can't quite put a finger on what felt off, maybe the tires felt cheap? Here are a couple of others you might consider in that price range:

The Civia Twin City -- https://civiacycles.com/bikes/twin_ci...rough_7_speed/. It's $1000 and comes with rear and front racks, fenders, a chain guard, and a double-footed kick stand. It also has a much lower step over than the mixtes do.

The KHS Green 8 -- https://khsbicycles.com/bikes/2014-kh...ls/green-8-14/. It's $770 and comes with a rear rack, fenders, and a chain guard. Also a really low step over.

Both bikes are chromo steel. I haven't been able to test ride either yet, but they get good reviews.
Good luck!

Giant Doofus

I don't have the expertise that many around here do, but I'll try to speak to this question. I've been commuting on a ten year old hybrid with pretty upright geometry, comparable to the mixtes you are considering and the Civia I posted above. It has derailleur gearing, but functions as an 8-speed for me because I never take it out of the middle cog. For years before I started commuting on it I rode it as a recreational bike, mostly on rail-trails. No serious climbing, but some decent rolling hills. I used to take a couple of 25-mile rides a week and a 50-miler on it on the weekends. It was fine. I had a lot of fun on it. So, I would guess that if that's the kind of relaxed, recreational riding you have in mind, the bikes you are considering will be fine. If you want to be able to keep up with people on road bikes who are pushing themselves, then you'll need to get something different.

gringo

In a similar vein as some of the bikes mentioned here, there is this:

https://miir.com/v/bicycles/high5_mixte.asp

I'm not sure if 5 speed will satisfy your criteria. I saw one of these at rei a few weeks ago. I didnt get a chance to give it a thorough inspection, but upon quick glance it looked quite nice.

unaleona

Thank you for all the replies! It's helpful to get some more information and different perspectives. You do all raise some more questions though.

hartphoto: Can you explain exactly what about the components is higher quality? Which ones and why? I've just really started trying to learn about bikes recently and while I've been doing a lot of reading I'm still a bit fuzzy on this.

crankyone: Thanks for pointing out the Secret Service. Workcycles does describe it as a lighter, sportier option, but doesn't really provide any information on weight. It also still looks extremely upright, and I think I'm interested in a slightly more aggressive bike. Most worryingly, it seems impossible to test one out. There don't seem to be any Workcycles dealers in the DC area.

In terms of the other companies you list, I've not been able to find any from those companies that are not extremely heavy, very upright, and very expensive. I've been doing a lot of reading, and I know that Velouria on lovelybicycle has often recommended these types as superior, but I'd love a little more explanation of what makes them higher quality (aside from the fact that all the commuting essentials are included, which is definitely a big one). The Batavus bikes don't seem to have much US distribution, and are known for being very heavy. The Gazelle is something that I can try out here in DC, but at 50 pounds for the Toer Populaire it doesn't seem likely that it will be the right bike for me. As far as I can tell, Azor is another brand name for Workcycles in the US? If there are other Azor models, please let me know.

Giant Doofus: So great to hear that someone else out there is in the market for something similar! Do keep me posted on your research and how your test rides go. When I rode the Linus it was raining and trafficky and I was trying to make sure a less-experienced cycling partner didn't get run over by any cars, so I have to admit I probably don't have the most complete impression. I'll have to go back for a longer ride.

I'd read about the Civia Twin City but forgotten about it. Looks like they have a dealer in DC so that's a great option to add to the list. Does anyone have one of these and have any thoughts on how it fits this category?

I'd only heard about the singlespeed and three speed options of the KHS Green, so it's great to know they have an 8 speed model. Does anyone know how this one compares weight/components-wise to the public/linus bikes? I think I should be able to test this one out as well, so that's definitely on the list.

Gringo: Thanks for mentioning the Miir, I've never heard of it. I'll see if there's an REI around where I could look at one. I do prefer the trigger shifters that come with the Sturmey Archer hubs to the twist shifters that come with the Shimanos. When I inherited my bike it had the weird combination of a three speed Shimano hub with a three speed SA shifter, and I've gotten very used to that shifter. I've also gotten a lot of lectures from mechanics who tell me that this combo cannot possibly work...but hey, it's been working.

Anyway, I guess the question I'm left with boils down to this: while for ~$800-$1000 it seems like there are several high quality, respected options for heavy, Dutch or English style three speed upright bikes, there doesn't seem to be anything that is similarly respected for quality in that price range for slightly more aggressive, lighter bikes. I'm spending a fair amount of money on this bike (I know in bike terms, this is not a lot of money, but $1000 is still $1000), and I'd like it to be something worthwhile. I'd love to be able to buy a Betty Foy from Rivendell or a Soma Buena Vista and build it exactly how I like, but that's not in the cards for me right now. I don't know enough about building a bike, and I don't have the budget. I also want the new bike soonish, so I can start enjoying it!

So I'm left still feeling a bit confused about the general attitude that the 8 speed mixtes from Linus and Public are low quality. The frame material seems to be the same as several other options discussed here. Any specifics on what exactly it is about them that is so much worse would be much appreciated.

I've seen some good things about the Bella Ciao Donna, and the Pashley Penny seems like it might be more in this style than the other Pashley models. I have a feeling that they would both end up being more expensive than I'd hoped, though I have to go to the LBS that carries them to find out. What would you think of them as options? What do you get with these bikes that you don't get from the sub $1000 bikes?

Thanks so much!

unaleona

Okay, so I've been doing a ton of research online and have been to a few more bike shops. The most recent one didn't carry anything in the vein that I'm looking for, but did suggest that they could build up a Soma Buena Vista for me. They did a quick calculation and thought it would cost between $1100 and $1500. The Public Mixte costs $1100 if I can't get the online sale price at the LBS.

I found this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...(pic-warning!), and the related post on lovelybicycle. This sounds like exactly what I'd been looking for.
@southpawboston, or anyone else, does this seem like a reasonable project to take on for someone who is so new to the bike world? I've never actually purchased a bike, the old Maruishi I've been riding for years was a family hand-me-down. Is it too much to start with? And does anyone have recommendations for a LBS in DC that would be best able to handle this? The guys who suggested it have a store full of super light, derailleur racing bikes, so it would make me a little nervous to ask them about it.


The post mentions a sub $1200 price point, but is this realistic if I don't have any parts lying around/the skills to do any of the work myself? I suppose some parts from my old bike may be salvageable, but the whole thing is pretty rusty and hasn't ever been particularly restored, so I'm not sure what would be usable.

noglider 

You could probably manage to do it, but what are you going to ride in the meantime?

unaleona

My old Maruishi 3 speed is still trucking along. Though the brakes are awfully squeaky these days, the shifter cable is often popping loose, and the whole thing is pretty rusty, it is still taking me to work and back every day. Hopefully it can hang on a bit longer. How long would it be likely to take to complete this kind of project?

noglider 

That's a big "it depends," and it depends on what tools and supplies you have on hand, what bike parts you have, how much you know, and your general mechanical skills. We certainly can walk you though this, though, and if you find you're in over your head, you can let the bike shop do the hard bits.

dynaryder

The only shops in DC I won't recommend are the Big Wheels locations. For the others,it's pretty much who's working that day,and what kind of day they're having.

If you're new to bikes,and don't know how to wrench,I wouldn't advise creating a project. Buying a bike that's already built from a name brand company will at least ensure it's put together properly. You may also want to check out the local co-ops. Here's a list of the DC area bike co-ops(and clinics);check their websites to see when they're open. They sell bikes and can answer your questions and show you how to work on your bike. You might even find what you're looking for at one of them.

CrankyOne

You'd have to email Workcycles to ask about the Secret Service weight. Azor, Workcycles, and Bakfiets are closely tied to each other through friendships. Azor makes all of the frames. The Oma and Opa frames are the same regardless of label, the components may differ. I'm not sure if Azor markets their own versions of the SS, Gr8, or Fr8. All of the bikes from these three as well as Gazelle are very high quality. Batavus is a bit more of a mixed bag, though still decent and better than Linus (which isn't too bad however).

More here: https://localmile.org/?page_id=75

As to your project. I'd echo what Tom said. If you're mechanically inclined it could be a fun and rewarding project, otherwise it could be a lot of frustration. In the latter case I'd have the bike shop build it up for you. One change I'd make is a Shimano dyno hub on the front to power front and back lites. You might also want to consider a Nuvinci N360 rear hub instead of the Nexus. My wife put a B67S on her bike last summer and really likes it.

Dahon.Steve

+1

It's incredible how much they want for the same bike being offered by Bikes Direct for hundreds less. I have the three speed and the rear wheel did break spokes. I had a bike shop do a complete rebuild of the rear wheel with better spokes and nipples. That's the only repair I had and I'm still way ahead if I purchased a Linus or Public bike.

I did notice the Linus/Public models have better components overall. But there is no way the Public has $600.00 dollars in better components. The only other adjustment I would make on the bike are better brake pads but that's only going to happen once the current ones are used up. Quite frankly, I hope the OP sets some money aside for $150.00 New York Chain!!

unaleona

Thanks so much for the offer to walk me through this! I guess I'd assumed that I'd let the bike store do all the bits, since I've never done even the most basic tinkering with my own bike. Which bits are the hard bits and which are the easy bits?

I also just noticed that Abici's mixte the Sveltina Donna is on sale for ~$1100 at 40% off. https://www.abici-italia.it/shop/prod...?id_product=54. It looks like what I was looking for, and my understanding is that Abici makes a higher quality bike than either of those two companies. I don't know of any dealers here in DC, does anyone here know?

I'm also wondering if anyone is familiar with the store The Daily Rider, as they seem to carry a lot of these city bike brands.
@dahonsteve and @lostarchitect, if the bikes direct bikes are really on par with the Linus and Publics then I'd certainly be interested in saving all that money. I guess I'd gotten the impression that they were really flimsy. One of the big reasons for upgrading from my current bike is that I have issues with this one so frequently. I don't want to get a new one and then constantly be bringing it to the store. If I went the bikes direct route, are there certain components to upgrade immediately with the saved money that would make it more reliable??

noglider 

Well, that is also a broad question (which is easy, which is hard). I'm tempted to say if you have to ask, then it's all too hard. But that would be unkind and possibly inaccurate. Tell us what mechanical things you have done successfully. Tell us what mechanical things give you trouble. Building a bike from frame and components is very easy for some and impossible for others.

unaleona

This is a good point! Right now I use a Kryptonite Minu U lock and haven't had any problems, but of course my current bike is not at all appealing to thieves. My bike lives inside my apartment at night, and when I get to work it is locked to a bike rack inside a parking garage. The garage is not the most secure place in the world, but there are people watching who goes in and out and I haven't heard any anecdotal reports of bike theft from the garage. My fellow bike commuters have some pretty nice bikes.

What I'm worried about is locking my bike when I use it for transport around DC. Now, I lock it outside a bar or restaurant and don't think twice about it for an hour or two or three. I try to follow Sheldon Brown's strategy https://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html, though with this bike, it's not so important.

But what strategies do you all use when locking nice bikes outside for longer than just a short errand. It's not feasible really for me to have a nice bike that I leave at home for long rides and a beater bike that I use if I'm going to have to lock it up, because I don't have space for two bikes inside, and the different kinds of uses tend to blend together for me. Any opinions on this? Especially from DC folks? I'd rather not go all the way to the New York Chain, since it's so heavy, but I also want to do what it takes to make sure my new bike will be there when I come out!

Giant Doofus

I'm not sure you would save much money by doing some of the assembly yourself and taking the rest to an LBS. You might check, but I'm guessing the charge for assembly wouldn't be much different if the do most or all of it. If it were me -- someone who hasn't done much beyond changing a flat tire -- I would take the whole thing in for assembly, especially if it's the LBS where I plan to go for routine maintenance or for upgrades.

lostarchitect 

I haven't personally ridden them, but I have seen Bikes Direct, Linus and Public bikes around here in NYC, and my opinion on them is as follows:

The bikes direct bikes aren't quite as "polished" looking as the Public bikes, but they are just as good looking--maybe better--than the Linus. The tires should be upgraded in the near future but otherwise I think they're good.

The Linus bikes seem to represent the worst option to me. They don't have the attractiveness of the Public bikes and are on par with the BD bikes, but cost way more than them.

The Public bikes are nicest looking and have more attention to detail. However they are the most expensive.

All the bikes use shimano internal gear hubs which is the mechanical part that has the most going on, so mechanically they're pretty much equal, in my opinion. You might want to upgrade the saddle on all of the bikes, none of them seem that great. I'd look at a Brooks, probably a B17 as a good upgrade. That's not something you need to do on day one, though.

jyl

The BikesDirect Kensington does look great for the price.

noglider 

I disagree with lostarchitect. I think you get what you pay for. Really. If something is much lower-priced than something else, like a free lunch, it's not likely to be an amazing value. I've seen some bikesdirect bikes and have not been impressed. The little things like the nuts and bolts are true crapola. These things add up. The rims might be heavier than reasonable. The assembly is sloppy. And so on. Linus bikes look boring, but they look like solid values with no corners cut that shouldn't be cut.