Commuter / Touring Bike - Surly Disk Trucker or Ogre?
 

Apologies in advance if this has already been covered specifically, but a search in both the Commuting and Touring forums didn't result in a lot of comparison information. And also apologies for posting this in both forums, excuse the bad form if this is frowned upon.

Here is what I am looking for in my next bike, and I would like advice from those of you with experience with the Surly Disk Trucker and/or the Ogre.

I will be using this bike primarily as my year-round daily commuter. I currently have a 5mi - 25 mi commute each way, depending upon how far I want to ride before and/or after work. I carry my gear in Ortliebs, and would like a bike I can outfit appropriately for winter riding, specifically with fenders and tires that can get me through some snow and ice if necessary. Here in Boise, ID we don't typically get a lot of snow in the valley that actually stays on the ground, but for example, during this holiday season there was about a 2-week period where I couldn't (safely) ride the roads with my current commuter because of the packed snow / ice in the bike lanes and MUPs. I also plan on outfitting my new bike with a dynohub / light set. Commuting will be the main purpose for this bike, however, I do also want to be able to use it for self-contained touring, requiring front and rear racks / panniers. While all of my touring in the past has been on the pavement I am definitely interested in checking out some of the many off-road trails and fire roads that are within the state. I'm not necessarily envisioning doing much touring on single-track, but definitely would like a bike that can handle rougher terrain.

I do plan on checking out each of these bikes and test riding, of course. From what I can see on Surly's website it appears each of these could meet my needs. It looks like the Ogre could give me more versatility in terms of choices for winter / off-road tires. I'm just not sure what the downside would be in comparison to what seems to be a more tried and true model in the LHT / Disk Trucker line.

Thoughts / comments?

Thank you in advance!

Disc Trucker can take 35c studded tires, which are enough for packed snow and ice. But it bugs me that all Surly's disc forks have traditional rear-facing dropouts. Consensus seems to be that disc brakes tend to pull wheels backwards, so forward-facing dropouts like Salsa & many others use are better & safer.

LHT Disc Trucker has no bosses to mount canti's or V brakes, should you need them in emergency or for whatever reason.

Consider the Troll also. 26" tires are widely available worldwide. In case you plan to tour outside the USA.

I think the biggest question is if you pan to run drop bars or flat bars. Personally, I can't stand flat bars for any significant length of time (they tend to lock you into one hand position, which is a no-go for long distances), so all my bikes have drops, including my mountain bike which has Salsa Woodchippers. If you want drops, the trucker will be better out of the box. You would need to play with fit (and likely go a frame size down) if you want them on the Ogre. If you want flat or riser bars, then the top tube length of the Ogre would likely better accommodate you. Both bikes can fit good studded tires.

As far as fire roads, etc, I have read of people stuffing 1.9" tires into their LHT or Cross Check (can't remember which) without fenders. That should be enough for most rough roads, as long as you aren't riding purely fire roads. Of course, if you get the itch to do extensive unimproved road (or singletrack) touring, you may wish for more space, if only for smoothing the ride a bit, if not for grippier tires. I might also throw out the Salsa Fargo as an option if you want drops and wide tires; the base model is in the price range of the Ogre.

I was in the same boat as you and decided upon a Salsa Vaya. Not sure if it is in the price range that you are looking in, but found that it can accommodate large tires (mine came stock with 40c, running 35 now), fenders, lots of dropouts, and go on gravel/dirt (and single track if you are daring). Been using it as my commuter for almost a year now and have 0 complaints.

Troll w/ 26" wheels on Big Apples/Big Bens for 3 seasons, my vote.

I'm with kloe120. Broaden your horizons and look into the Salsa Vaya. I've used one for almost 6,000 miles of commuting over the last two years. It's a great long range commuter/light touring bike, that was made for racing on old fire roads and such. Tons of dropouts and mounting points and takes wide tires. A great ride.

If I had to go Surly, I guess I'd go with the LHT. Sounds a little less lively than I'd prefer for a commuter though.

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...12-08-28-1.png
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...12-08-28-2.png

That's a very relevant question, fotooutdoors. And one I don't know if I can answer until I can test ride both bikes. My current commuter, a Novara Express, has flat bars with bar-ends and for the most part I've been comfortable, even on some longer rides. My mountain bike has flats bars and back in the 80's I did some cross-country tours on a flat-bar mountain bike, but I do certainly understand and appreciate the benefits of drop bars.


I really haven't given much thought to anything other than the Surly models, for a couple of reasons, including a discount that's available to me on Surlys. I looked at Salsa's web page. The Fargo 3 and Vaya 3 are close to the Surly models spec and price-wise. It doesn't appear that there are any dealers here in Boise, though. Check that, it looks like there are a couple of local dealers. I will go take a look just to see what they have.

Thank you for the feedback. As I said, I need to look at these in person and ride them. Any additional comments are welcomed!

Thanks, that's a sharp looking bike. I'll take a look at the local Salsa dealer to see what they have on the floor for comparison.

Salsa and Surly are both QBP brands. I would think any dealer that would give you a discount on one would give you a discount on the other (except where the discount was limited to in stock items). At the very least I'm certain that any dealer that could sell you one could also sell you the other.

I've got the non-disc version of the Trucker with 26" wheels. It's very nice. Also note that the 26" version (disc or not) has more tire clearance than the 700c versions (at least according to spec).

I also have a disc-equipped Kona Jake. For daily commuting I prefer the Jake, mostly because of the gearing. The Trucker is typically geared lower and mine is geared much lower, which is great for a relaxed ride and is the reason I have the Trucker, but if you like to sprint and what not then that's not such a good thing. The bar end shifters also tend to reinforce this difference between relaxed and aggressive riding styles.

Are you talking about the forks or the dropouts? The Disc Trucker has vertical dropouts.

westrid_dad: I'd also throw the Novara Safari out there. I've got an older model that has been put through hell and it's been stone axe reliable. Multiple winters,several blizzards,grocery hauling,and even abused playing polo. You'd have to add discs to the current model,but the frame/fork have the mounts and the hubs are disc compatible,so you'd just need the calipers,rotors,and new cables. I much prefer the trekking bar to drops,you get more hand positions and can still get aero. The larger models are 700c and come with 42's which I believe is wider than the Truckers can handle. Also,if you're an REI member they offer a 20% off coupon every Spring,and if you decide you don't like it you can just take it back.

The forks. The fork dropouts ("fork ends"?) face backwards so the front brake should tend to pull the wheel out of the fork. I've seen at least one recent disc trucker blog mention that. The blogger blamed himself for not cranking the QR tighter but ISTM Surly could've avoided the problem with a design like Salsa's.

I'd vote for the Ogre. I have one and it used for commuting, touring, and winter riding. Once the snow melts, I tend to commute on a mountain bike, so I can ride trails after work on the way home, but if I could only keep one bike, it would be the Ogre. With the Jones loop bar, there are a lot of hand positions, and the bike really can do it all from singletrack bikepacking to fully loaded road touring, and everything in between.

I wondered about this...

Could they no just mount the caliper on the front of the fork? Better cooling?

The Vaya is really nice. Great job.

I say look into used bikes. There's so much you can do with them. With the money you save, you can customize it in great ways.

Thanks, Andy. I did confirm while I can order a Salsa, it wouldn't be at a discount. The Vaya and Fargo models do look really nice, though, I'd say they may be more of the "thoroughbred" class versus the "work horse" class, like what I'm looking for?


Dynaryder, I have looked at the Safari previously. I already have two other Novara bikes and am looking to diversify a little. :)


Thanks, mtndragon. That is a good vote of confidence in the Ogre's capabilities. I'm eager to check out the fit and compare the feel and comfort of the Jones bar in comparison to the more traditional drop bar on the Disk Trucker.


noglider, I've been checking Craigslist but haven't yet found that perfect posting that calls my name, if you know what I mean. For me, it averages about 10 years in between new bikes for me so I don't mind spending the extra money for something new, plus there are discounts available to me to help ease some of the sticker shock. btw, I just want to add that I enjoy reading your perspective on commuting in other threads on this forum. We have a daughter that is living in Manhattan and I've visited her several times this past year. I'm not sure if I'm in awe of the cyclists I see navigating the city streets or if I fear for their lives. Its definitely a different environment than what we have here in Boise! I grew up outside of Boston and did make a few bike trips into the city, but it still seems that was a lot less stressful and manageable than what I envision it is like in NYC. That feels more like orchestrated chaos on wheels?

Every city has its own dance. For that matter, every intersection or interchange has its own dance. NYC looks disorderly, but that's because it doesn't follow your idea of order. We cut things close, but there is body language which states intentions, if you read it carefully. There aren't many hard feelings. You'd think there are, because there's so much honking. I've come to believe that honking isn't a warning or even a statement of anger. It just goes along with breathing. Some people just do it habitually. How else can I interpret the honking that starts 37 milliseconds after a light turns green?

As for danger, I don't think so. Counterintuitively, you're safer on a bike than in a car. No one wants to hit a bike. Drivers may come close, but they stop or slow or turn to avoid hitting us.

There are a lot of brave delivery cyclists. The surface is very slippery with all this slush sitting in the streets this week. My fear would be the wheels sliding out and the cyclist sliding under a vehicle. I've been meaning to try riding in the slush, but the 11F temperature has dissuaded me from riding.

I have a Disc Trucker, Cross Check, and until about 2 months ago, a KM (same geo as Ogre). Between the two, I would definitely get the Ogre, mainly because you mentioned off-road trails. I have 43's on my CC and going down singletracks, it's not that fun. My other rigid 29er with a Surly Knard tire is a hoot and just eats up the bumps. Now, if your definition of "off-road" is fireroads, then I would favor the DT, because it will be better for all of the other commuting duties.

Other models to consider is the Krampus/ECR. Many people tour on fat bikes:

http://joecruz.wordpress.com/2010/09...surly-pugsley/

But I just haven't enjoyed any of the fat bike rides, as it is just too......fat. Sluggish, slow, lethargic. Not enjoyable for me. However, the 29+ platform provides just the right amount of cush and flick. If I were to get a new bike today for dirt touring, it would be the Krampus or ECR. But my current with a Knard up front does well, too.

Thanks for the reply, palu. I'm working on pricing an Ogre with various accessories. Our local Surly dealer is getting a couple of ECRs in the next week or so, I'll probably take a look at them once they are built. But, for what I'm looking for in a "jack of all trades" bike, I think the Ogre is a better match.

I would have bought the Salsa Vaya but I already had the Schwinn Super Sport DBX which quite similar in that its an all-rounder bike. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it came came with drop handlebars but I was able to replace them with Origin 8 Tiki mustache bars, which gave me the upright riding position I was looking for while keeping the Shimano Tiagra STI shifter/brake levers.

Such a bike with disk brakes isn't a road bike but then it does everything a road bike can't do.