Mr IGH

Both the hubs I quoted are disc, the Nexus (same as the Alfine, in silver instead of black) and the SRAM, take your pick, disc hub, no adapter needed for the SRAM. A Sun 18 is $28, that's a pretty nice rim for the money. $60 for spokes/nip is ~$2/spoke/nip, twice retail pricing. Not fair to include the rotor, I just cut $93 (with the upgraded Sun 18 rim) from your $401.

acidfast7

fair enough, I forgot about the other German site that you posted.

i also enjoyed reading the dissertation about dynamo technologies.

germans love frames.

Mr IGH

There were defective units shipped to customers, the units built after 4/12 are go to go.

interested

[snip: comparison between IQ Ixon and Philips Saferide]

Notice that this is between the old IQ Ixon and the Philips. The new "Premium" edition of all B&M's lights are significantly better. I haven't seen any direct comparisons between the Saferide 80 and the Ixon Premium, but there is little doubt that the IQ Ixon Premium has a far wider beam shape and illuminate from a far wider angle.

Competition is good. There is a vicious price fight going on at the moment between German web shops, so both lights are can be found at really discounted prices.

Mr IGH

And that older version is what OP is raving about....

They do here and it isn't much better:
Neue Leuchte Busch & Müller Ixon Core IQ2 für Stadt usw. | MTB-News.de

(I used google translate to read the review, not a lot of love for the old or new version)

interested

That is not the 80 lux "IXON IQ Premium" but the much smaller and cheaper 50 lux "IXON Core IQ2" on the photos and in the discussion (notice the thread headline too).

The small IQ Core does a decent job compared to the Philips Saferide 80 considering it cost half as much. It is also a lot smaller and lighter.

The "IXON IQ Premium" is much, much more powerful. The new optics have a much wider beam, coming from a much wider angle. (Helps with tight turns).

I think the google translate wasn't so good, since the IQ Core is a new model (no previous model to compare with).

interested

No, the OP talks about the brand new "Ixon IQ Premium", not the old "Ixon IQ" that is compared to the Saferide (or the new "Ixon Q2 Core" for that matter).

Mr IGH

OP's has NiCads, new version is Li-Ion.

PaulRivers

You're the same guy who actually ordered both, right? To reference your previous post -

Hmm, I'm thinking of ordering a Saferide now just to test it myself. I can see where you are coming from with the light color / light temperature not being great on the Ixon Iq - I felt that way at first, just figured my eyes would adjust to it and I wouldn't notice it any more, but if someone else who actually owned the light thought the same thing maybe it's a thing. Hmm.

Do you think the Saferide was as wide of a beam as the Ixon Iq? As for "a lot more light", I've found that putting more light in a more concentrated area has a far more negative effect on my night vision (ability to see outside the main beam of the light), so I've often found it's not useful. I guess I'd have to see it for myself to agree or disagree...what I'm saying is, a lot of times people think that more light is simply better, but I've found in practice (owning about $1,500 worth of lights) that sometimes brighter light is actually worse. With a hotspot and uneven beam this is definitely true, but since the Saferide is a shaped beam I can't say for sure without using it.

On the USB port part, totally agree that a usb port would definitely be nicer. But the Ixon IQ Premium has other similar advantages:
- I've read that the Saferide's battery charging is mediocre - often not fully charging the battery. Not sure if a common thing or was just that poster. I've never read similar things about the Ixon, Ixon seems to be the same as putting it in a good charger (though haven't tested it...hmm, maybe I should).
- The Saferide seems to require tools to get the batteries in and out of, whereas the Ixon IQ Premium is easy to do by hand.
- You can't use the USB port on the Saferide to hook up an external battery via the usb port, I've read the light won't stay on if it's getting power from usb. It will stay on with the Ixon Iq Premium - though this would be a far better advantage if the Ixon IQ Premium actually had a usb port than than a proprietary port. The Saferide also automatically shuts itself off after something like 2 hours, so you can't even wire in an external power source.

Bottom line - thanks for writing back, and if it wasn't for the battery life issues it would be an interesting argument - Saferide vs Ixon IQ. Unfortunately (and I really mean that, because otherwise I would have bought a Saferide years ago), the Saferide does have battery life issues that the Ixon IQ doesn't have.

Definitely curious to see what you think after riding with the Ixon IQ for a while!

PaulRivers

That's not true either, as the dynamo version of the Saferide puts out less light than the battery version. Even the guy who gave overenthusiastic praise of the Saferide had a different opinion of the battery version than he did of the dynamo version (dynamo version not as good for light output).

PaulRivers

There's no scientific process possible with an opinion of "do I like the beam pattern", which is what his reviews revolve around. Putting a "scientific process" around what comes down to 1 persons personal opinion does not make their opinion more than their opinion.

I've seen other reviewers other than just amazon say they were really underwhelmed by the Saferide when they got it, compared to that 1 guy gushing on about it. They didn't say it was a "bad" light, just that it had it's issues just like other lights did, it wasn't the pinnacle of perfection that that one guy described it as.

acidfast7

evidence??

PaulRivers

I will have to agree to disagree with you. He went on an on calling the Cyo crappy in ways that I personally (owning a Cyo) didn't find to be nearly the problem he would describe them as. Back in the day I saw other people right reviews who actually tried both the Cyo and the dynamo Saferide and say the same thing - that they didn't think the Saferide was a terrible light or anything, but that they preferred the Cyo.

From a quick search, here's someone who prefers the Saferide but doesn't agree that it's the slam dunk the other author thought it was -
Quick notes on Philips SafeRide vs. B&M IQ CYO-RT

Overall...

I prefer the Phillips SafeRide light to the B&M IQ CYO-RT, but it's fraught with trade-offs. Going up hills at low speed, the flickering of the Phillips can drive you a bit crazy. The artifacts are distracting. The shaky mount is poor oversight.

But more and more neutral light, over more area at medium speeds, on relatively smooth roads is what I need most of the time, and the Phillips fits that solution better for me. Not by a large margin, but a significant one nonetheless.



Here's someone who preferred the Cyo over the Saferide:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronic...not-clear.html

I have been riding with IQ Cyo for over 2 years now and have been very happy, but strong claims of superiority of another lamp arose my curiosity. Well, the Saferide arrived yesterday and I have, so far, been able to compare the Cyo and Saferide when powering them either in parallel or separately from a 6V battery. To sum up, so far I am not impressed by Saferide...Otherwise, the beam of Saferide is much worse defined than for Cyo. There is plenty of light scattered randomly to the sides in the form of patches and combs. In my experience, this may, on one hand, be quite distracting, and, on the other may help improving side visibility. Finally, curiously within the main illumination area Saferide is dimmer than Cyo.
(Keep in mind that both posters are discussing the dynamo version of the Saferide, which puts out less light than the battery version of the Saferide).

There's some other people in that thread who also tried both and disagreed with him from personal experience.



It gets a little messy, because of the dynamo vs battery versions of the Saferide. But I've read a lot of reviews from people who tried both, and sometimes they liked one, sometimes they liked the other, but the above poster is the first person who felt there was a clear advantage to the Saferide (battery version). Maybe I'll have to order a Saferide just to try it out...hmm...

acidfast7

Your response is on the mark.

But, I still like to see evidence that the dynamo version put out less light than the battery version.

I'm curious it's a voltage issue (shouldn't be) or a bulb difference (shouldn't be) or just imagination.

I'm not trolling and am legitimately curious.

PaulRivers

I bought mine around a month or two ago, whereas you are linking to a post from 2006 about a completely different model of light with much less light output than the Ixon IQ Premium.

jpatkinson

Well, a pre-built 6-bolt wheel option from Germany isn't something I considered, but is sounding more attractive! I will definitely consider! I have no idea what the "weak argument" comment is about -- maybe a cultural misunderstanding? Cheers!

PaulRivers

You keep repeating that, despite the other poster having bought his light this year and having the exact battery problems that were described then. Sounds to me like it just plain was never fixed.

PaulRivers

That's a good point I didn't notice, thanks. As I said in previous comments, I though the older Ixon Iq (which I owned) was a poor light. It's the newer Ixon IQ Premium that has a higher lux rating and a much wider beam that I think is pretty awesome.

interested

I think you are still confused about "Ixon Premium" and the "Ixon Core":

The new version of the 80 lux B&M Ixon IQ Premium that the OP has, comes optionally with 2.100 mAh batteries (probably some LSD/Eneloop style NiMH).

The small 50 lux "Ixon Core", that you originally thought was the "Ixon Premium" uses Li-Ion batteries (integrated).

This is the Ixon IQ2 Core:

PaulRivers

From the review site that gushed on and on about the Saferide, this is the "2.v.2 Dynamo headlamp: Philips Saferide LED dynamo (abbreviated: SLD) = Philips Saferide 60", rated at 60 lux:
Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo

This is the "4.1.1 Philips LED bike light (battery powered with cutoff) (abbreviated as LBL) = Philips Saferide 80 (name change from ca. 2011)", rated at 80 lux:
Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo

If you want more comprehensive info, feel free to search the web. It became fairly well known when the Saferide vs Cyo debate went on that the dynamo Saferide (60 lux) is a lowered power light than the battery (80 lux) version. There's no 80 lux dynamo version.

PaulRivers

Ah, that's cool, here's another reference talking about the difference -
Philips Safe Ride Pedelec 80 lux front light

This light (the page I linked to is for a version for electric bikes, which have more power available for the light) is not for use with a dynamo. We also sell the Philips 60 lux dynamo light which uses a version of the same housing. If you want a self-contained light which has the same 80 lux output, consider the slightly larger Philips 80 lux battery light.

PaulRivers

Exactly! Maybe that's what happened to the guy with the cancelled shipment to - his store confused the nimh battery light with the other model (with lower light output) that uses lith-ion.

acidfast7

There is a third option that I guess you guys don't get in the North American market (which is why I asked).

It is for "pedelec" or e-bikes in Germany. It is the 80 lux version without batteries.

You can read about it here in English:

Bike24 - Philips SafeRide LED Fahrradlicht für Pedelecs 80 Lux - schwarz

It required 8W in the worst case scenario as seen in Philips documents:

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/downloa...idePedelec.jpg

However, most hub dynamos produce a 3W/6V maximum output due to the StVZO ...

By law an external overvoltage protector (SM-DH10) to be installed.

This is what happened here I believe when this was tested ...

Philips Pedelec headlamp 80 lux

However, it seems that a Shimano dynamos will put out at least 8W (worst-case scenario for the Philips light) without this regulator in line as measured in a real home made test device

Bicycle Hub Dynamos

Therefore, I think that the Pedelec version of the light would be as bright as the battery version if the dynamo was run without the overvoltage protection.

I'd also put my money where my mouth is and have one shipped out to you if you'd do a real test of it. It could be a great bikeforums experiment showing that the dynamo versions are as good at the battery version.

But you have to peddle fast!

PM me if you're interested!

interested

Correct, there is no 80 lux Philips Saferide dynamo light, only the 60 lux model. This is also evident on Philips homepage.

The dynamo version of the 60 lux Philips Saferide is a very nice light, but it is now totally outclassed by the new 80 lux B&M IQ Cyo Premium, that, thanks to a price war, can be had even cheaper than the 60 lux Saferide here in the EU.

Such competition is good, now Philips have to improve their dynamo version in order to stay relevant.

acidfast7

see above there is a 80 Lux version that could be run off a dynamo as I am proposing. Wanna test one for fun?

I have a flat on Gråbrødretorv if you ever wanted to meet.