Mr IGH

Grey market junk like your old version of the light you love. Here in the US we get the left overs. That's why I ordered from European suppliers and not Amazon. Last week the WSJ had an article about how Amazon sells old junk from grey market vendors.

interested

I don't think it will work as intended. The manual of Saferide pedelec version says:
"The system battery needs to be able to deliver minimal: 6V/1.3A (7,8W) or 12V/0,55A (6,6W) or 24V/0,25A (6W) or 36V/0,17A (5,9W)"

That is a tall order for a 3W dynamo hub to deliver considering that this is the _minimum_ requirements.
I also have a hard time believing that anybody actually install the "SM-DH10" over-voltage protector these days. It is a leftover from ancient time when halogen bulbs were still used. So I think it was tested without it, and of course, found too dim for any practical use.

acidfast7

sigh

try reading, it works

Bicycle Hub Dynamos

note: i'm not an ass, and provided this in the original post that was responded to ... some people have no tact ... i weep for the danes sometimes ... so arrogant.

interested

As I see the chart, the rider has to ride at 25-30 km/h to even reach minimum required electrical output for the Saferide pedelec light. Doable for some, but not really practical that the light is very dim until such speeds are reached. You may be able to tweak it so the minimum is reached before that, but probably not so much it will be a practical solution.
Why even bother, there are several 80 Lux dynamo lights on the market right now that works even at low speeds.

PaulRivers

Hey, thanks for the offer, but being that I'm not that interested in the dynamo version of the Saferide, it sounds like a bit to much work for me. Also - I live in the US, and you appear to live in England. Shipping might be a bit much. Not sure how that would work exactly either, as while I have a dynamo hub I wouldn't want to open it up to try to remove the limiter.

I'm a little curious to try out the battery version of the Saferide myself (with better batteries), but if I did and the runtime still sucked I imagine I'd hear a lot of excuses about it being an "old version" and such. It looks like that guy supposedly selling updated Saferide's (and writing articles about how they're supposedly so amazing) is in the Netherlands?
Bicycle parts: lighting

Bit much in return shipping when I most likely will want to return it. Better color out of the LED does have me a little interested to see about it, though.

Site claims -
Philips Saferide 80 Comes with: Lamp + 4 x 2600mAh NiMH batteries + charger. Manufacturing date 4112 or later, so with better electronics, neutral white LEDs, better status LEDs and more runtime, standard mount.

Wonder if it has the manufacturing date on the label.

TransitBiker

The one on my bike switches off battery power at ~1 mph...... so to see something way over that is odd...

- Andy

zacster

Didn't Philips bow out of the bike light market? Isn't this going to be a moot point?

In any case, I'll put my Cyo Premium up against a Philips light anytime someone wants to meet in Manhattan or Brooklyn. I don't expect a clear winner, just that each has advantages.

Saving Hawaii

See, I wouldn't describe the Saferide 80 as "more light in a more concentrated area" or necessarily as "wider than the Ixon IQ Premium". It's more consistent than the Ixon IQ Premium. Both lights have hotspots that are putting out ~80 lux (see that flat line near the top of the Ixon's beam and the rectangle above it). The Saferide 80 has hotspots too but where the Saferide 80 dominates the Ixon IQ Premium is in the rest of the beam. The rest of the beam (outside the hotspot) with the Saferide 80 is much brighter than the rest of the beam of the Ixon IQ Premium. It's also much closer to the brightness of the hotspot. The Saferide 80 floods the road in front of you with light in a way that the Ixon IQ Premium doesn't. And it's a more comfortable color for seeing. The Ixon IQ Premium is a great light but it's not at the same level as the Saferide 80 except for the better battery life.

I'm definitely considering buying one of the newer model Saferide 80s now (I did have an older one) and seeing how it works. Even if battery life is still an issue for me the Saferide 80 is a workable platform for mods and I could fix that.

dwmckee

Any idea how it compares to the new Edelux II?

Saving Hawaii

Edelux II uses the same reflector as the Cyo Premium and Ixon IQ Premium so I imagine it compares pretty closely to both.

interested

I have yet to see an official announcement, only a copy of email allegedly saying so. But a German online retailer, bike-components.de, have started labeling all their Philips lights as "discontinued". So it looks like it.

Sad really, I thought they had an interesting line up of quality lights, and that they where among the few bicycle light manufacturers who actually did some innovation and designed with some care, instead of slapping a LED on top of a battery pack.

jpatkinson

jpatkinson

Nope. I ordered the brand new IXON Core (50 lux, lithium ion) and Rose Bikes wouldn't ship it to me. I am considering ordering the one YOU have, but I wouldn't buy it with the batteries and charger.

PaulRivers

Edit: Didn't see a previous reply.

PaulRivers

Like I said in my previous posts, if you buy good batteries separately, you can get better battery life out of the Saferide than you were getting. Somewhat over an hour.

The highest capacity, but also reliable (and not overrated) rechargeables I know of are the Eneloop XX AA -
Amazon.com: eneloop XX 2500mAh Typical / 2400 mAh Minimum, High Capacity, 4 Pack AA Ni-MH Pre-Charged Rechargeable Batteries: Electronics

You mention "workable platform for mods", but you might want to keep in mind that others have tried modding the Phillips light in various ways to increase the battery life and found it to be problematic -

modifying a phillips saferide led bike light | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community
"Keep in mind that the newer production models have an annoying "feature": the light will run on high for only 70mins and then automatically switch to low and continue to run for another 165 mins - it refuses to switch back to high until you charge the batteries or just take them out and put them back in (which is not very convenient on the road). I have an earlier production model which runs for the promised 2 hours on high and then turns off."

This is the first quote that popped up, but I saw it mentioned multiple times other places by other people as well.

PaulRivers

Fyi, out of curiosity, I order a Phillips Saferide (with Eneloop XX batteries) from Amazon (I'm in the US) and am going to test it against my Ixon IQ Premium. I'll check what manufacturing date they have on it is, and what kind of battery life I get out of it. (Planning on using the Eneloop XX's a few times to make sure they're at max initial capacity before testing, but moving them over to the Ixon IQ Premium to test the battery life on that).

I ordered from Amazon US mainly because it allows me to return the light if I don't like it (I suspect the short battery life will keep me from keeping it, even if I do like the color temperature better will I also suspect I will - jury is out until I get it on things like beam pattern). It seemed like it would be cost prohibitive to ship something back overseas.

Saving Hawaii

Let us know what you think when it shows up.

PaulRivers

It arrived today. It's going to be a few days before I have all my thoughts together, though.

One question for you - did your shows up with a hex tool that let you open the light? The instructions show one, but mine does not have one. My Specialized multi-tool doesn't even have the right size hex wrench on it. I was able to get it open because I realized I have another, bigger, Crank Brothers tool that does have the right hex wrench size on it. Curious what you opened yours up with (you have to open it up to put the batteries in, so it's weird it doesn't come with a tool).

This is all the info from the bottom of mine:
K676
4xLR6/AA Bat.
BF48L20 BBL
2111

The other website another poster mentioned said this -
Philips Saferide 80 Comes with: Lamp + 4 x 2600mAh NiMH batteries + charger. Manufacturing date 4112 or later, so with better electronics, neutral white LEDs, better status LEDs and more runtime, standard mount.

So I'm not sure if 2111 is the manufacturing date on mine, and amazon is selling the older model (which is the one I have)? Since they're selling for $100 on amazon (original retail was more around $200), it wouldn't be a huge shock.

PaulRivers

P.S. Here's a page from the other site mentioned where he mentions the production date being 3210 -
Philips LED bike light: Run time test

It is in the same location as 2111 on mine. So for better or worse, it sounds the one amazon sent me probably is an older model. This is a bit of a mixed bag - on the one hand, the newer models supposedly have better electronics, runtime, and led color temperature. But on the other hand, supposedly the "turn the light to low after 75 minutes" timer was only in the newer models, and the older models just run until they run out of battery. When I get done put my new batteries through a few cycles (I've always found new batteries tend to take a few cycles of using them to reach max capacity), I'll test out the runtime (using my Lacrosse Bc9009 external battery charger, and the same physical batteries for each light).

Wonder if he still ships the newer Saferide model from overseas? Maybe I should contact him about the timer issue, hmm...

P.S. Just to add another confusing thought, I had also read though that the on the older model it just ran on high until the batteries ran out, then it shut off. But the one I have, I left it running on my desk, and it switched automatically into low mode (I didn't time it...probably should have). So now I remain...really, really confused, lol.

interested

Did you notice the update:
"Update 2012-1-23: Runtimes of 2 lamps with production dates 0911 and 2111 are ca. 1:25 on high, then taking out a battery and immediately putting it back in again gave another 32 minutes or so on high. Total runtime on high ca. 1:57. This is better than the earlier lamps, but still not 2 hours on high without trickery (taking out a battery and putting it back)."

According to this, the models with the production date 2111 are a slight update from the early model, but not yet a 2. generation model. I think the product number "BF48L20BBLX1" designates 2. gen. models, while "BF48L20BBL" designates the 1. generation.

I don't think even 2. generation models can reach half the run time of the Ixon IQ Premium though (around 5 hours on full power). AFAIK, the Luxeon Rebel LEDs used in the Philips Saferide are fairly "old";. they simply deliver much fewer lumens per milliampere than the new (Osram?) LED in the Ixon Premium, and there are two of them.

PaulRivers

Ah, no, I had not noticed that, thanks for posting it.

I notice he doesn't post any additional battery info below that, say, for the 2nd gen model, unfortunately. Have you run across any specific runtimes for the 2nd gen model?

I ran across some comments that seem to be from him (swhs seems to be him):
Cygolite Metro vs Philips Saferide. Opinions?

The current version with neutral white LEDs has a fantastic beam, the electronics is also much improved, uses just about all available power from the NiMH batteries. The low mode is better than the old low mode as well.

It's unclear if there's still an annoying timer in it there.

From Philips LED bike light (LBL), battery powered, with cutoff, under the title "New: Experiences with version 2 with the mount with ballhead and warmer LED light colour and again changed electronics" -

My verdict on the new version: The ballhead doesn't work well (it's going to be phased out, replaced with the original mount), but as for the rest It's fantastic! Low mode gives me more I can see with, Philips says it's 35 lux though it looks the same intensity, when looking fairly close to me on the road, as the old one, but that could be due to the cooler light of the old model (20 lux low mode) which gives the impression of 'brighter'. Whatever the case may be, I can see farther and better with the low mode and the high mode is just fabulous, especially for non-paved roads. And it's much much easier on the eyes (for myself but also for oncoming traffic).


The electronics is also improved, it's possible to switch back to high mode when the battery is low. You've been warned with the switch to low mode when the battery indicator goes red, and then it's your own choice to get stranded with no light when running on high

I ran down the battery on my light, and once it switched into low mode I could not switch it back, so it definitely sounds like you're saying above - I revision of the first generation of the light.

That may be, but even though I have the "old" version, "Saving Hawaii" definitely has a point about the color temperature or light distribution of the led - I took both into an enclosed room in my house, and tried each out. The Saferide has a whiter and more natural temperature to it's light color. It appears to be brighter. With the Ixon IQ, I can read and see everything ok, but it has a purplish hue to the colors and while I can see things fine, the colors don't appear as natural as they did with the Ixon IQ. The Ixon IQ is a little weirder on the eyes.

I'll keep an eye on it, and see if I think it makes a practical difference when I get a chance to ride after dark.

I don't personally need 4-5 hours out of a bike light, 2 hours is the minimum, 2.5 hours is better. Barely over an hour wouldn't cut it for me, but if it's 2 hours it gets into being a tough decision...

PaulRivers

Oh, man. I went for a ride last night with both the Ixon IQ and my older gen Phillips Saferide from Amazon. I am completely torn about which one I like better.

Phillips Saferide (though this an updated v1 version from amazon):
- I can see why "Saving Hawaii" likes it - it's like riding behind a curtain of light.
- The color temperature (or spectrum) and brightness is very very good in lighting up the road in front of you - details on the road surface are very visible, it's a bright cheery color - you know how their are beamshots online that light things up way more than the light actually does in person? Well this light actually lights up the road just like the beam shot looks like. This is the only light (other than a combination of a Seca 900 and a Seca 1400, which is insanely expensive and completely blinds any oncoming traffic) I've used that does that. (On a side note, the light in color and such is almost exactly the same as my older Cyo)
- The drawback of this is that it has more of a "riding in a tunnel" effect than the Ixon IQ does. You can't see outside the main beam of the light as well
- Beam pattern is basically a large square of light out in front of you
- The beam is much, much wider than the older Cyo, though not quite as wide as the Ixon IQ
- One small drawback in the beam pattern is there is a bit of a gap in front of the wheels that doesn't get much light. It's a non-issue at high speeds, but annoying at lower speeds like when I was riding briefly on a sidewalk next to a major road in order to get to the bike trail. Not a huge deal, just an annoyance.
- Battery life continues to appear craptastic. With older AA's, when I pulled into my driveway at the end of my ride the light switched into "permanent lower power" mode. This wasn't a problem with the Ixon IQ, which has never hit "switch into low power mode" at all.
- Light construction is a lot sturdier than I had expected from reading the reviews. Mine is basically the same as the Ixon IQ, the rubber plug on the back of mine that covers the usb port seems firmly attached and in no danger of getting lost.

Ixon IQ Premium:
- I would characterize it as a light that lets you see the road without realizing it's on.
- Details on the road surface are definitely not as visible as they are with the Saferide. However, this was never a realistic problem for me (I never missed seeing something I wish I had seen), and it comes with a different benefit - it affects your peripheral and night vision less. With the Saferide, I felt like I was biking forward into what my bike light was lighting up very well. With the Ixon IQ, I felt like the road was just visible at night somehow and I was hardly even using a light. (When you turn it off, suddenly the road goes black, and you realize the light was definitely lighting it up, turn it back on and it's not as obvious that the light is on, but "somehow" you can magically see the road surface again).
- It's like - have you ever ridden in the city, and found that you didn't really need a light to see by to bike around? The Ixon IQ is better at creating that effect - you can see what you need, and you're not as much in a tunnel from the light. Whereas the Phillips is better at a "anything in the beam is like biking in daylight" effect - the drawback being you can't see outside the beam as well.
- For sharp turns, the Ixon Iq was better and left me feeling more comfortable. It was a combination of a wider beam, and better peripheral and night vision outside of the beam. I tried this crossing back and forth across a road, and in a parking lot without any lights (though the moon was out). With the Ixon Iq I felt comfortable making pretty sharp turns, with the Phillips my turns were noteable slower as I didn't want to turn into anything that was outside where the light was lighting up. Neither was a huge issue, but the Ixon IQ was more comfortable.
- The battery life appears very good. The light never went into low power, it just keeps on working and working.
- Running the light on "low" was interesting - it's very dim on low, but it made my peripherial vision even better and still lit up the bike trail "enough" while I was biking along.
- The color temperature - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say the color spectrum lit up by the light - in my opinion could be better. It has a purplish hue to it, and it's slightly weird on the eyes. The Saferide has a more "daylight" color spectrum.

The bottom line is - I just didn't find a winner. They're both better than any other battery lights I've tried for road riding (as I mentioned, a combination of a Seca 900 and Seca 1400 was my ideal light, except for it's cost, need to have 2 lights, and being absolutely blinding to anyone coming towards you). As I was starting to like the Phillips more towards the end of my ride because of it's brighter, cheerier color temperature, I pulled into my driveway and the light switched into low power mode - reminding me how stressful it can be to be biking with a light that doesn't really have enough battery life.

If the Phillips Saferide had better battery life (like just 3 hours, I don't actually need 4-5 hours), I would say it won. But it didn't. If the Ixon IQ's led had a better spectrum of light that wasn't a little on the purplish side, I would say it won - but it doesn't. So I'm torn - it's a tie for me.

I have been motivated to order the v2 version of the Saferide from overseas, and see how well that one works.

Things I found the same:
- Solidness of light construction. In the models I have, they both seem pretty solid to me. On my Saferide the plastic piece covering the usb port seems firmly attached.
- Beam Pattern - ignoring color temperature / spectrum, I don't agree with the other review that was linked to that claimed the Saferide's beam is "much better". I say it's a draw. The Ixon IQ has a more triangle beam, the Saferide has a more square beam. The Ixon IQ has a very, very slightly less consistency in light distribution in it's beam pattern, by a very small margin it's not quite as consistent as the Saferide is, but the Saferide has slightly distracting light being thrown out outside the main beam that the Ixon IQ doesn't have, and the beam isn't quite as wide. In my opinion, it's purely a matter of taste, they both have good beams.

I'll write more when I get my Saferide v2 model, and I get more of a chance to use both, and test out what the battery life is like on the v2 model. If anyone has any thoughts from personal experience, please feel free to post. :-)

jpatkinson

Nice review. As of last Friday, I have the Ixon IQ Premium on order, so I hope to post my impresisons in a couple weeks! I am planning to fork-mount it on my commuter and swap to a handlebar mount for road cycling. Do you (or will you) supplement with a low-power (aimed-at-the-drivers) strobe for the "be seen" element, or do you think that enough light creeps above the cut-off to make you visible to others on the road? - JP

PaulRivers

Hi, thanks. Good to know someone found my review interesting. :-)

I'm really on the fence about that myself. With the light on my handlebars, I don't think the light is any more of less visible than non shaped-beam lights. It's kind of a "you see it or you don't" situation.

I think that for all lights, a non-blinding blinky makes your bike more visible on roads to cars. The only other alternative is an overly-bright wide angle light, and those are offensive and annoying as hell. I think a front blinky is the best way to "be seen" by cars.

In my situation, the vast majority of night riding is on dedicated bike trails or very very low traffic streets, though, so I haven't quite found the necessity to do it myself. As I am thinking about taking more of a street route to and from work regularly, I've been thinking about it a lot.

If you mount the light down by the fork, I think there's more of a need for it - people are more likely looking for lights at handlebar level, and it's easier for it to get block by something in front of you.

I'd be curious what you end up getting if you get a front blinky. One of the reasons for my hesitation is just finding one I like - not huge like the Planet Bike blaze, but puts out a white light with a fast steady blink pattern (and takes rechargeable batteries, I don't like dealing with one-time-use CR2032's).

Mr IGH

I've tested Shimano, SRAM and Sturmey, I haven't seen any hard power or voltage limiter/clamp. I was able to draw more than 10W out of the SRAM and Shimano dynos, I haven't measured the SP or SON but I expect the same results.