When should you NOT take a narrow lane?
 

I'm certainly a believer in "take the lane". I can see how it has led to safer passes for my riding in general. Still, it does elevate a risk that hugging the side of the road does not. That being the risk of getting rear ended by a driver that never sees you.

So OTOH we have the improved safety found in making yourself visible early and encouraging people to make a safe pass by blocking the opportunity to make an unsafe one. Trade that against the risk that a driver will never see you in the first place, regardless of where you are in the lane because they're looking down at the floor, behind them, texting, etc.

In evaluating those trade-offs I tend to favor the safety of "take the lane". But if it is a narrow road and very twisty and hilly I'm not so sure. Particularly after taking a right hand slow uphill turn, I favor getting out of the road as much as possible. There's no point being way out in the lane if I can't be seen further than 80 feet back.

Seems like in situations with reduced visibility, the closer to the edge I am, the more likely I'll be missed if not seen or if seen late in the game.

Georgia is different .. you folks, or at least the Pols, think a gun is what every one should carry ..

Out here, the back roads the Log trucks are plenty loud to get off the road when they are coming .

I think you've begun with and incorrect assumption. Being more visible does not elevate your risk of getting rear-ended. Same-direction collisions make up the lowest percentage of cycle-auto crashes.

I didn't say that being more visible elevates risk. What elevates risk is being out in the middle of the road where you're more likely to get hit than hugging the edge when it comes specifically to the people that are not even looking up.

However, one of the key reasons for taking the lane is to make yourself more visible. Taking the lane reduces risk, it does not elevate it.

When I take-the-lane, I still stay somewhat right, so that if someone does happen to look up from their phone, they have an extra 2 or 3 feet to miss me by they otherwise wouldn't have if I was in the middle of the lane. I'm taking up too much space to use the lane, but not taking up so much it's hopeless if they at least see me at the last minute.

I know this is still just a wish in a well, but it's my style.

Since you're asking the question, I'm going to assume there's no other route you can take? I really try to avoid narrow two-lane, windy roads... as in, I pretty much don't ride them unless I'm climbing or bombing up or down hill. But I guess this is because I have the luxury of doing so... if your commute requires narrow, windy roads, you're stuck on them.

I would probably not take-the-lane in the situation you describe. I would stay as far right as practicable, and make them hump out around me. This is also less likely to cause road rage, if that factors into your ride.

How does "taking the lane" make you more visible? I think it makes you less visible to the cars that are behind the car immediately behind you. The guy immediately behind you can see you in the middle or to the side of the lane. All "taking the lane" does is block the cars from passing, which in some situations is good, and in others, bad. I'll block cars from passing if absolutely necessary, but otherwise, ride to the side to make passing easier. Do you "take the lane" guys block all cars because you think it is safer in all circumstances? I don't see the wisdom in that.

Discussions like these don't make much sense to me. Whatever stance one takes, he or she does so based on some principle or principles. Principles are fine, but they exist in the abstract world of the mind. In the real world, any given situation will dictate which, if any, principle is most likely to be successful. To behave solely on principle without assessing the immediate situation seems likely to result in a less than satisfactory outcome.

Taking the lane makes you more visible because you are in the lane of travel. This is where a driver is looking and expecting traffic to be.

As for trying to alert traffic, several cars back, if you are swimming along the curb, the driver two cars back can still not see you through the car in front of them.

Not all circumstances. The biggest factor is lane width. If the lane is wide enough to accommodate a bicycle and a car, safely, then no, I don't take the lane. A lane wide enough to share is the exception, not the norm. In fact, about 10 miles of my 52-mile commute is on a road with wide lanes so I don't take the lane there. However, I'm still riding away from the curb in order to be more visible.

It is more likely you will be seen by the second car if you are riding off to the side of the lane, rather than in the middle. No guarantee, of course, but certainly more likely. Riding in the middle of the lane almost assures you will not be seen until the front car passes you, and then, of course, it is harder for the next car to avoid you at the last second. You won't catch me "taking the lane" anytime soon.

Not necessarily... obviously some guys preach taking-the-lane for spite (principle), but there are some very valid, logical reasons for, or not. I see more of that than "principle."

Either way, the second car won't see you until the first one moves over.
If you are not comfortable taking the lane, then don't. Never let someone else influence you to ride in a way that you don't feel is safe.

Every situation is different, so there are no rules, only general guidance.

I will generally only take the lane when
A) It is generally not safe to pass me if I am riding to the side - in this case taking the lane will "force" them to either follow me briefly or pass by going into the other lane
B) It is not safe for me to be on the side or in a bike lane - debri, obstacles, door zone, poor shoulder while descending, etc. As I go into the lane, A) applies
C) A few situations where A) is questionable and visibility of me would be temporarily obstructed on the side.
D ) some slower moving roads where I am going the speed that traffic should go, and are often narrow so potentially meeting A or B (I have some roads that are 20 or 25 mph zones like this on my commute...I can generally keep up with traffic for small sections where I want to take the lane.

To apply this to a windy hilly road, I would probably take the lane if
1) I am descending and the road is narrow or poor condition shoulder (or is just very windy/steap that its safer for me to be in the lane.
2) When a its narrow enough that passing could be close and be being on the inside A driver can't see me until very close, either due to a turn or obstruction (parked truck, etc.). In this case a drive will see me sooner if I am in the lane vs on the side.

If the shoulder is wide enough and clean enough then I will not ride in the lane at all. Riding on the edge of the actual lane put you in somewhat of a no-mans land. You are less likely to be seen but also occupying a space that an automobile might attempt to occupy at the same time, - not good.

So IMHO you are often times better off taking the lane on a narrow road.

Some context is worthwhile. The higher the speed of travel, the less likely I would be to take a lane. On a 30 mph road, which is pretty much the speed limit on the non-trail parts of my commute, I'm probably not moving much slower than they are and there's not a lot of passing going on. If somebody does decide to pass me, I'm visible as soon as the car behind me moves over into the other lane to go by, - well before they actually pass me. And I think it's pretty normal for the driver in the 2nd car to look to see what the car in front is trying to pass.

My goal is simply not to be forced on to parts of the road that aren't fit to ride on and to avoid situations where cars would be tempted to pass too close to get by. It's not to block traffic. I'll often take the lane in winter because the tire tracks are typically the cleanest part of the street (not always but often), but I'll regularly pull off to the side to let cars go by.

This is the best statement of reasoned thought on the subject I've seen so far. Excellent points.

I have a narrow road on my commute through an urban city section, which is perpendicular to some one way streets. I typically take the lane on this road, but there is one tricky section. If I take the middle of the lane, I have to be careful at the stoplight because the cars making a left turn (from the one way road) often make wide turns that cause them to cross into the lane where I am stopped. To avoid this, I would position myself a bit right of center. However, there are also people behind me that need to take a right onto the one way road . If I position my bike far enough left to allow the people to pull to my right to turn right, then I am in the "risk zone" for the people making a wide left turn from the one way street...

Another risky place for taking the lane is on windy country roads with no bike lane that are popular "scenic routes" with drivers and cyclists. I will take the lane when going downhill at the speed of traffic on these roads, but there is a particular risk... Due to all the cyclists going uphill (without a bike lane), the cars on the uphill side will pass them, often crossing way over into the lane of oncoming traffic to pass the uphill cyclists. If a downhill cyclist is the "oncoming traffic," there is risk that the car passing the uphill cyclists could veer out into oncoming traffic and hit the downhill cyclist traveling at the speed of cars.

To make a hard and fast rule about when to take the lane is insanity. Every road or street is different, every rider is different, every circumstance is different. Insanity, I tell you, insanity. The only thing that can really teach you when or not is just experience. Start by taking the lane when (in your estimation) there isn't enough room in the lane for both you and the car while he is passing. Then allow time and experience to temper your decision making process. But one thing I will say for sure: It is not dangerous. Feels like it sometimes lol, but it's not.

When people start looking down rather than where they are driving, the drift out of their lane. So in such a case, your just as likely to get hit riding FRAP or on the shoulder as you are taking the lane.

By taking the lane and them seeing you early, you may convince them that now would not be the best time to look down, until after they pass you.

I have learned to not trust anything out there, including the road itself, or my own bike. My two primary things to avoid are other vehicles, and fixed objects like light posts, potholes, curbside post boxes, and curbs. I think my over-arcing theme & rule is to never go anywhere that you can get boxed in with no way out. This includes staying well clear of wide vehicles, not going too far right on streets lined with parked cars, waiting for lulls in traffic to do any move that would otherwise be risky, and trying to keep my tires dry and clean. In my "cyclists mind" you cannot assume anyone will see you ever, assume instead you cannot be seen, and assume they will act erratic & not follow traffic law. So in short, i only ever claim a spot in a lane if it is required for safety (avoiding something etc), everything else is secondary.

- Andy

On multi-lane roads, cars will change lanes much earlier if they see you in the center of the lane, because they know they don't have room to share it.

When those cars move over, the cars behind them immediately get full view of the cyclist much earlier than they otherwise would. They then have plenty of time to change lanes also and complete a pass without needing to slow down.

Thus, to some people's surprise, taking the lane helps make traffic flow around you faster, not slower.

Keri Caffrey made a great video of lane-taking vs. side-hugging on the same strip of roadway.
Compare 1:05 to 3:45 in this video.
Also see her blog post on it.

I don't see anything in that video that demonstrates a bike rider is more visible riding in the center of the lane vs. on the right. In light traffic on a six-lane road, all of the cars easily change lanes to go around the bike rider. I'd stay to the far right on that road, as there is no reason to block traffic.

This term get's tossed around a lot. A cyclist taking the lane is not blocking traffic. A cyclist taking the lane IS traffic.

I was confronted by a shuttle bus driver, several years ago. He kept saying I was impeding traffic so I told him to call the police. I said I'd gladly sign my ticket with his pen. The police came and explained two points to him:
1) A bicycle isn't impeding traffic because a bicycle IS traffic.
2) On a multi-lane road, the bicycle occupying a lane does not meet the criteria for "impeding," since there's another lane open for passing.

Hugging the edge of the road might reduce the risk of being rear-ended, but it's already a very low risk. It's much lower than people think.

If I've been keeping someone from passing for more than a minute, I will pull over ASAP. It's just good manners. With that said, I rarely have to do this! And I do take the lane often.

Its weird reading this thread because on Monday a cyclist lost her life in the streets of Montreal taking the lane on a Bixi. She was read-ended by a truck. It's very sad; but its producing a hell of a commotion with local authorities to make it safer for cyclists.

It seems pretty clear from the press report that cyclists have the right to take the lane; so it should be mass knowledge right?

But you have people, working for the city!, who do not know about the law and honk at cyclists when they take the lane. This ended up in the local news; sorry its in french. Basically the guy says "Its dangerous" and "You don't have the right"; which is totally wrong.

Un cycliste sermonné par un employé de la Ville | Marie-Michèle Sioui et Annabelle Blais | Montréal

She died right where I passed, several times .. :-( I used to park, walk & bike there, it troubles me deeply. That said though, I still take the lane when its safe. As sad as this whole thing is, I believe its a rare, yet tragic, event and should not stop me from taking the lane.

Its a good idea to know what's happening behind; for instance of you have an 18-wheeler behind it might not be wise to take the lane; especially in a downard slope, they just can't stop! For this though, you need to carry, and use a bike mirror.