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-   -   Getting motorists to SLOW down. (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/95202-getting-motorists-slow-down.html)

Helmet-Head 03-25-05 05:04 PM

Close and fast passing of cyclists by motorists can be dangerous. Cyclists can fall, swerve or suddenly leave their path at almost any time, because of losing their balance (usually only when moving slowly uphill), but mostly in order to avoid some kind of unexpected obstacle (like a piece of debris, or a hole or crack in the road).

In any case, if a motorist happens to be closely passing a cyclist right before he or she swerves or falls to the left, the results can be catastrophic. So, it's helpful to know what to do to discourage close passing, and to encourage motorists to slow down as they pass.

Bike lanes don't help, and actually often exacerbate the situation, by giving the passing motorist a false sense of confidence that the cyclist will stay in his lane, thus alleviating him from feeling the need to slow down and/or move left.

In another thread, the contention was made that motorists don't slow down for anything these days. I disagreed, because they slow down for me, after I learned how to get them to slow down.

One of the surprise side benefits of using a mirror is learning how to control passing motorists in terms of slowing them down and getting them to move left.

Tools that I use to slow motorists down and get them to move left include:
  • My own lane position. The closer I am to the curb, the closer they tend to buzz by me. As I move out away from the curb, they tend to slow down and move further left. Sometimes I have to move to the center of the lane (between the left and right tire tracks) to "take the lane".

    But this never works in a bike lane. They don't seem to be affected by my position at all, or even my presence at all, when I'm in a bike lane. They just blow by me as if I'm not there, unless I do something like...
  • Zig-zags. When I'm in a bike lane, and see passing traffic coming in my mirror too fast and/or too close to me, I do some zig-zags. Works like a charm! They SLOW DOWN and MOVE LEFT. I don't care if they think I'm an unpredictable lunatic on a bicycle, as long as they pass me with a reasonably safe passing margin.
  • Ride outside of the bike lane. Two inches to the right of the stripe, and they pass me like I'm not even there... (no slowing down or moving left). If I move two inches to the left of the stripe, the effect is remarkable. You can feel how they instantly become aware of you, and you can see it in your mirror: they SLOW DOWN, and MOVE LEFT. (bonus: less debris and fewer flats when riding to the left of the stripe...). Couple this with the next tip and you're golden...
  • Issue the "slow/stop" signal (left arm out and down). This gets their attention almost every time. Sometimes I forget to do it, have motorists passing me unsafely fast and close, whip out the sign, and they instantly slow and move over. It's great!
  • Stand up and throw the bike right and left in an exaggerated manner. Similar effect to the zig-zag trick, but generally only useful on climbs.

Anyone else got any other tips? What do you do to cause motorists to slow down and move left as they pass you?

noisebeam 03-25-05 05:12 PM

I don't care as much if motorists slow down when passing me as long as they pass with appropriate distance for the speed differential (i.e. more distance with increasing speed)

Al

randya 03-25-05 05:54 PM

I object on principle to bicylists being regarded as traffic calming devices, sort of like human speed bumps. Of course, this is the way things often work in the real world, and Serge is actually suggesting that bicyclists actively engage in such traffic calming actions.

IMO, if the traffic is too fast for the road to be safe for bicyclists without bicyclists endangering themselves by taking it upon themselves to slow the traffic down, the local jurisdiction should be responsible for taking appropriate remedial actions, including education, enforcement or engineering changes, that slows the traffic down to more appropriate and safer speeds.

Helmet-Head 03-25-05 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by randya
I object on principle to bicylists being regarded as traffic calming devices, sort of like human speed bumps. Of course, this is the way things often work in the real world, and Serge is actually suggesting that bicyclists actively engage in such traffic calming actions.

There are events and conditions that should cause motorists to take notice, slow down, and adjust lane positions. I suggest that the presence of a cyclist on the roadway constitutes such an event or condition, just as a pedestrian at an uncontrolled intersection constitues such an event or condition as well (for which vehicle drivers often have to not only slow down, but actually stop).



IMO, if the traffic is too fast for the road to be safe for bicyclists without bicyclists endangering themselves by taking it upon themselves to slow the traffic down, the local jurisdiction should be responsible for taking appropriate remedial actions, including education, enforcement or engineering changes, that slows the traffic down to more appropriate and safer speeds.
IMHO, that would require taking actions on any road with speed limits of 40mph or higher, and even some that are 35mph. In the mean time, in the real world where we have roads with cars traveling faster than 35 mph on which I too would like to ride my bike, I find motorists passing me 2 feet away at 30+ mph differentials to be unacceptable. The techniques I've learned to use help me achieve riding safely on such roadways.

Moonshot 03-25-05 06:47 PM

Serge,

These "techniques" may serve you well today, tomorrow and maybe next week. But once a motorist become accustomed to you weaving irratically in the bike lane and throwing stop signals without intending to stop they will begin to ignore you.

Worse, an innocent cyclist may signal a stop or turn and this motorist who is acclimated to your deceitful riding "techniques" may just ignore them also and cause a death or injury.

I suggest you act predictably at all times on your bike.

Hawkear 03-25-05 06:59 PM


sort of like human speed bumps
Not an image I want to think about... ;)

I haven't really had any situations of people driving too close to me (other than old people in the bike lane who shouldn't be out driving, period) while I am in a bike lane. A lot of times, cars will even slow down as they pass me. Shocking, I know!

I don't deliberately try to slow down traffic - I just try to make situations safer for cars to pass me. This usually includes taking the lane sometimes, and making myself as visible as possible all the time. Haven't found any use for a weaving technique. Usually getting right in the middle of a lane works.

Helmet-Head 03-25-05 07:04 PM

There is nothing deceitful or unpredictable about these techniques, and I resent the implication that they are! These are legitimate forms of communciation.

The slow/stop signal is similar to tapping your brakes in a car to signal with your brake lights to a tail gater to back off. To motorists coming from behind it communicates: "SLOW/CAUTION".

The zig-zagging is similar to what the highway patrol does to slow down freeway traffic in order to create a gap for safe debris clearing. To motorists coming from behind it communicates: "SLOW/CAUTION".

I suppose you got the "unpredictable" impression from my own words: "I don't care if they think I'm an unpredictable lunatic on a bicycle...". In retrospect, that was a poor choice of words. I was trying to anticipate someone objecting to this technique on the grounds that someone might think someone zig-zagging like that is an "unpredictable lunatic on a bicycle". Actually, I don't think that actually happens. Zig-zagging in a consistent fashion is just that: consistent, and predictable. It's attention getting, which is the point, that's all. I'm just trying to get their attention so they are aware of my presence, and take care as they pass by SLOWING DOWN and MOVING LEFT.

If it stops working because they get used to it and start ignoring me again because I'm in the bike lane even if I'm zig-zagging I'll let you know. In the mean time, it works and I'm going to keep on doing it to keep them from buzzing past me too fast and too closely.

YMMV.

Helmet-Head 03-25-05 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by Hawkear
Not an image I want to think about... ;)

I haven't really had any situations of people driving too close to me (other than old people in the bike lane who shouldn't be out driving, period) while I am in a bike lane. A lot of times, cars will even slow down as they pass me. Shocking, I know!

I don't deliberately try to slow down traffic - I just try to make situations safer for cars to pass me. This usually includes taking the lane sometimes, and making myself as visible as possible all the time. Haven't found any use for a weaving technique. Usually getting right in the middle of a lane works.

I only use the weaving/zig-zag technique while riding in a bike lane and see in my mirror that motorists coming from behind are not slowing down and/or their path is too close to me.

operator 03-25-05 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by Serge *******
I only use the weaving/zig-zag technique while riding in a bike lane and see in my mirror that motorists coming from behind are not slowing down and/or their path is too close to me.

Sounds like you need to get rid of the mirror. I don't agree that these are legitimate maneuveurs. If anything it gives motorists a bad impression of you and they are more likely to be annoyed than if you were riding straight and true.

You're not doing yourself a favour by antagonizing a motorist, unless you can predict that they're out to get you.

vrkelley 03-25-05 07:24 PM

Serge this is a matter for the police and other community officials. Do you have a bike Advocacy group in your area. These groups discuss recommended routes for cyclists and work with construction planning to get safer roads for bikers.

lupowolf 03-25-05 07:52 PM

Ride straight and true and predictably. Signal your intentions clearly. Take the lane when it is safe (and safer) for you to do so. You have the same rights and and rules as the cars.

Sure, I hate it when a car is following me closely as I take the lane legally, revving their engine and finally passing me in a fit of accelerator road rage. But, I have the same right to be there as they do. (I just don't drive an expensive car to compensate for what is obviously their lack of stature in the crotch area.)

If I take the lane when necessary and signal clearly, they all fall in line. Riding erratically -- even if it just appears that way -- gives us all a bad name and makes it tougher on the next rider.

sbhikes 03-25-05 09:09 PM

Not only do people drive too fast and get irritated at every little thing that slows them down, have you ever realized that in America people are basically driving the quiet streets of their neighborhoods in military vehicles? On a beautiful spring day they'll be taking their kids to school in jeeps and tanks (Hummers). It's absurd. These things are like 4000lbs.

But anyway, I'm the one who said in another topic that motorists don't slow for anything. That was a bit hyperbolic. In the context of the other thread, I was thinking about this big hill in my town and how everybody drives as fast as they possibly can in order to not look like a wimp. My cars have always been 4 cylinder wimps. I once even resorted to posting a sign in the back window "can't go faster please go around." Seems to make people laugh instead of get mad.

I've found my recumbent makes a pretty good traffic calming device. Drivers either want to see what it is, or clock my speed (thinking erroneously that all recumbents are faster than regular bikes), or they think I'm a ******* in a wheelchair.

I really have no problem with bike lanes making drivers feel they can step on it and disregard my presence. That's fine by me. I'm capable of managing my own safety. The only time it's ever a problem for me is when there isn't a bike lane and they drive too close. I've found the bike lane keeps them out of my turf.

KrisPistofferson 03-25-05 11:45 PM

I usually throw a pbj in the road, while I'm waliking up a... oh, never mind.

junioroverlord 03-26-05 12:16 AM

I just move into the traffic lane if I feel I'm being passed to closely. Usually that means theres not enough room for me and the car so instead of sharing I take up the whole thing. Thay way they either have to change lanes or stay behind me.

77Univega 03-26-05 04:34 AM


Originally Posted by Serge *******
...As I move out away from the curb, they tend to slow down and move further left...

- - And when they shout: "GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE WAY!!", how do you handle that Serge?
Maybe in your neck of the woods that does not happen very much, but for some of us the motoring population does not tolerate being forced to move over for a bicycle.


Only a massive, relentless effort of public awareness over time will make motorists willing to "slow down and move further left". We ain't all there yet.


.

cryogenic 03-26-05 04:56 AM


Originally Posted by sbhikes
Not only do people drive too fast and get irritated at every little thing that slows them down, have you ever realized that in America people are basically driving the quiet streets of their neighborhoods in military vehicles? On a beautiful spring day they'll be taking their kids to school in jeeps and tanks (Hummers). It's absurd. These things are like 4000lbs.

Try more like 6200 lbs for your average Hummer H2. Yeah, they're rolling tanks if you ask me. However, on another note... one thing I've noticed that seems to cause people to slow down is turning and looking at them. 9 times out of 10, they'll take it as a signal that you're going to do something like move farther out into the lane and they'll do one of two things: slow down and let you do what you need to do or veer left and stand on it to get around you. I have also found that riding to the left of the white line instead of to the right of it (TN doesn't have bike lanes) causes them to give me a wider berth. I'll admit I've been "buzzed" a few times by people whom I assumed were trying to be jerks, but it wasn't bad enough to startle me or cause me to lose balance. I get yelled at by ignorant rednecks trying to scare me. They don't even yell anything intelligible, they just make some random sound with their head hanging out the window. I just laugh.

CommuterRun 03-26-05 05:16 AM

I have noticed that on days when I pull the trailer, two wheeled trailer wider than the bike, motorists give me more room. This is especially true at night, I run two tail lights on the trailer in addition to the one on my seat post, and it's also true if I have a load that appears large and bulky.

EnigManiac 03-26-05 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by noisebeam
I don't care as much if motorists slow down when passing me as long as they pass with appropriate distance for the speed differential (i.e. more distance with increasing speed)

Al

I concur. In a bike lane, if it's safe to be in the centre of it, a little on the right-hand side of it or even relatively close to the curb, then that is where I ride in order to put me a safe distance from motor vehicles. It's there for me to exploit and I exploit it. On roads where I am traveling in traffic without the benefit of the bike lane, I ride about 12 to 18 inches from the curb at a moderate speed. Most motorists slow and/or slide a little to the right when they pass, but there are some that are too impatient and reckless and pass very closely. If I am able to determine that they are going to pass dangerously in advance, I might employ one of your techniques (I like the zig-zag), but as it is, I can't always tell in advance as I am paying attention to road hazards and traffic ahead of me, so I just control my bike to the best of my ability. Riding regularly for thirty years now in congested city traffic, I haven't had an accident in twenty-five years, so I must be doing something right.

The suggestions Serge offers are reasonable and helpful, under the right circumstances and I don't have anything to add except be conspicuous, predictable and respectful. Due to back problems I developed a few years ago, I ride cruisers now because I can keep my back straight, and each of the four bikes I ride regularly are very eye-catching due to styling and colour. I have discovered a side benefit to riding unusual bikes like mine is many motorists who might have sped past me slow down to gawk (often smiling, pointing, giving the thumbs-up in approval, complimenting, etc.). When I towed a trailer for my son, cars were remarkably observant and respectful of the wider area I took up and the fragile cargo I carried (even though sometimes it was only beer :) ). My tricycle receives the same respect for the reason that it is twice as wide as well. Ordinary-looking (in spite of how interesting, well-equipped or expensive they may be to us) bikes tend to be ignored and deemed almost invisible by motorists, from what I have observed. I don't even get stupid comments from jerks. Now they're all smiles and friendly: sort of like what you'd expect if you were riding an OCC or West-Coast chopper or driving a really cool vintage car. Of course, the bikes I ride aren't for everyone or even most people, but they work for me.

operator 03-26-05 10:45 AM

The funny thing is, if you're riding on the right side of the lane and you shouldlook as if you're going to turn left, the car behind usually slows the hell down.

PWRDbyTRD 03-26-05 12:18 PM

Because of where I live I've found that I have to take the lane most of the time. When I ride with Cryogenic I notice he stays more to towards the right side of the lane, while I myself will just ride in the center of it. I've found this to work best in making traffic realize that I'm there....I still have the idiots who somehow don't see a 450# cyclist who slam on their brakes...quite beyond me. Yesterday on the only 2 lane road I have to ride on I was over as close to the shoulder as I could get since I was only going like 10mph and here comes a Honda Pilot and all I hear is "chirp, sqeak, chirp" and I look back and he had come to a complete dead stop behind me....what if it had been another 10 feet, probably would have clipped me. Friggin' ignorant motorists...it appears the ones with the big SUVs pay less attention

slvoid 03-26-05 12:40 PM

Try to ride straight and predictable.
Signal and then TAKE THE LANE. Don't zig zag.
Motorists respect you more if you act like traffic. No one usually wants to run you down purposely. If you make it hard for them to predict what you're doing, you'll only hurt and confuse their fragile ego's.
Make it known that a) I'm taking the lane because there isn't enough room to pass me safely, b) I'm now in the lane and genuinely staking my claim, I will increase my cadance so you can see that I'm trying to clear this area ASAP so I don't hold up faster vehicles, c) I am now pass the choke point and there is sufficient room, I will kindly move aside and wave everyone by.

I find that a quick hard glance straight back on the left signals to a motorist pretty well that I see them and know they're about to pass me.
If I'm going to swerve around and zig zag to hold up cars behind me, I might as well pop a few alka seltzer, start foaming at the mouth, and fake a full on seizure, that'll stop traffic pretty well. :)

EnigManiac 03-26-05 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by slvoid
Try to ride straight and predictable.
Signal and then TAKE THE LANE. Don't zig zag.
Motorists respect you more if you act like traffic. No one usually wants to run you down purposely. If you make it hard for them to predict what you're doing, you'll only hurt and confuse their fragile ego's.
Make it known that a) I'm taking the lane because there isn't enough room to pass me safely, b) I'm now in the lane and genuinely staking my claim, I will increase my cadance so you can see that I'm trying to clear this area ASAP so I don't hold up faster vehicles, c) I am now pass the choke point and there is sufficient room, I will kindly move aside and wave everyone by.

I find that a quick hard glance straight back on the left signals to a motorist pretty well that I see them and know they're about to pass me.
If I'm going to swerve around and zig zag to hold up cars behind me, I might as well pop a few alka seltzer, start foaming at the mouth, and fake a full on seizure, that'll stop traffic pretty well. :)

You said it perfectly, brother. After my last post I went out for a long ride on this sunny and mild spring day on my new 7 1/2 ft long Firebike and there were a number of times I had to move into the centre of the lane due to parked cars, streetcar tracks and pedestrians, etc. and with a sharp long look back and choosing my moment to take the lane without causing motorists to slam on their brakes there wasn't one nasty remark, flip of the bird or irritated honk. They could see I had room to move back to the right a short distance ahead and were patient and respectful until it was safe to pass me. What a damn fine way to spend a Saturday afternoon. :D

Jessica 03-26-05 03:02 PM

seems to me some folks want more than what I consider to be reasonable accomodation. If I am one foot inside the stripe and they are one foot out of the stripe, that's two feet clearance. As long as I have my side of the white stripe to myself, I do not need them to be farther out or slower. It is my responsibility to be outside that lane early if it has hazards..
seems like sudden behavior is the problem, not fast cars...

grolby 03-26-05 03:46 PM

Oh for goodness sakes, we've had some good discussions, but I'm inclined to wonder if you will ever accept that anything is the motorists' responsibility. It is not - repeat, not - and I mean NOT my responsibility as a cyclist to cause motorists to slow down. I have every right to demand the courtesy of cautious passing by motorists, and zero responsibility to act (as randya nicely put it) as a "traffic calming" device through unpredictable, unsafe riding maneuvers. That kind of behavior is risky to me, risky to motorists, and irresponsible. The person responsible for control of their vehicle is the person CONTROLLING that vehicle. Duh.

And of COURSE bike lanes only make it worse. It would quite a dent in your agenda if they didn't, right? Wow, I was under the impression that VC meant riding intelligently and responsibly. Not enough :rolleyes: in the universe for this...

JohnBrooking 03-26-05 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by krispistoferson
I usually throw a pbj in the road, while I'm waliking up a... oh, never mind.

Peanut butter & jelly? (Sorry, I've got young kids... :) )


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