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It's not if you get hit a car, but when.

Old 06-11-14, 10:55 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by wapiti View Post
My youngest is at SFU. I have told her not to even think of living off campus if she wants to maintain her sanity.
The buses are never great either. Now that they have the "community" and other condos and shopping it is much better. When I lived in grad student residence 10 years ago it could be rather abysmal. But I did have the best view on campus. Top floor, NW corner, views of the shore mountains and the island and if i poled my head out the Olympic Peninsula.
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Old 06-11-14, 11:21 AM
  #77  
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You're more likely to die of cancer or heart disease (1).
Swimmers and horseback riders live much more dangerously than cyclists (2).
I know the bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house, so.... ahem.

Statistics are generally descriptive, not predictive. Go play.

(1) Lifetime Risk of Developing or Dying From Cancer
(2) Relative risk in cycling
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Old 06-11-14, 11:47 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
You're more likely to die of cancer or heart disease (1).
Swimmers and horseback riders live much more dangerously than cyclists (2).
I know the bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house, so.... ahem.

Statistics are generally descriptive, not predictive. Go play.

(1) Lifetime Risk of Developing or Dying From Cancer
(2) Relative risk in cycling
They say the risk of dying while bicycling is about one in 5,000. But that looks like the risk to the population as a whole (I think). Since most people don't ride bicycles and fewer ride them frequently, I'm not sure what to make of that as a personal risk since I ride 40+ miles per day. I would have to think my risk is much greater than one in 5,000 though.
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Old 06-11-14, 12:09 PM
  #79  
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I can't vouch for how accurate this is but I found a site that apparently tries to assess the danger of bicycling relative to other activities with statistics that take into account the fact that a lot more people drive than cycle.

Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits

[TABLE="width: 300, align: center"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 4"]Fatalities per Million Exposure Hours[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Skydiving[/TD]
[TD]128.71[/TD]
[TD]Snowmobiling[/TD]
[TD].88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]General Flying[/TD]
[TD]15.58[/TD]
[TD]Motoring[/TD]
[TD].47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Motorcycling[/TD]
[TD]8.80[/TD]
[TD]Water skiing[/TD]
[TD].28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scuba Diving[/TD]
[TD]1.98[/TD]
[TD]Bicycling[/TD]
[TD].26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Living[/TD]
[TD]1.53[/TD]
[TD]Airline Flying[/TD]
[TD].15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Swimming[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]Hunting[/TD]
[TD].08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Data compiled by Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This puts the risk of cycling right down there with flying.
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Old 06-11-14, 12:36 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by sathomasga View Post
I've never been hit by a car.

I've had three accidents serious enough to worry my wife. (One broken collar bone, and one time requiring stitches in my knee.) The broken collar bone was due to a car buzzing too close and forcing me into the curb (and then onto the pavement). The other two were completely my fault.
I agree that technically you weren't "hit" by a car, but I would definitely throw this into the car vs cyclist category.
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Old 06-11-14, 01:50 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
@jrickards, I now do the "Danish thing" and lead the cars into the intersection. Of course, I look first.
You eat a danish in the intersection? Sounds danishgerous.
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Old 06-11-14, 02:09 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by squegeeboo View Post
You eat a danish in the intersection? Sounds danishgerous.

Hilarious. danishgerous.
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Old 06-12-14, 02:35 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by squegeeboo View Post
You eat a danish in the intersection? Sounds danishgerous.
[like]

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Old 06-12-14, 02:55 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
I don't think it's inevitable, but even if it happens, so what?
i've been bike commuting (as an adult) for almost 30 years and every single significant injury i've experienced was due to a voluntary risk that caused me to collide with an inanimate object. in fact, i have a healing broken rib right now and have not missed a single commute to work. motorists are the least of my bike commuting worries.
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Old 06-12-14, 03:01 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
They say the risk of dying while bicycling is about one in 5,000. But that looks like the risk to the population as a whole (I think). Since most people don't ride bicycles and fewer ride them frequently, I'm not sure what to make of that as a personal risk since I ride 40+ miles per day. I would have to think my risk is much greater than one in 5,000 though.
cycling ≠ adult bike commuting

a portion of that risk is due to fatalities that occur during competition, training for competition, and/or during recreational riding (by largely unskilled cyclists, including children). i suspect that the risks associated with adult bike commuting (versus all cycling) are likely much lower.
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Old 06-12-14, 03:01 PM
  #86  
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I think the most important take-away from this thread is that danishes are good.
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Old 06-12-14, 03:51 PM
  #87  
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I think you're far more likely to choke on a danish, than to be hit by a car.
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Old 06-12-14, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
I think you're far more likely to choke on a danish, than to be hit by a car.
I was thinking an allergy to one of the following is more likely: tree nut, ground nut, 1/4" nut or coconut.

I may stop at the bakery on the way to work and ride danishgerously tomorrow.

Mmm danish,

Mmm coffee,

owww crash.
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Old 06-13-14, 11:43 PM
  #89  
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I've been biking for twenty years, with a few years off due to injury. I was hit by a car once (a police car suddenly turned on the sirens as I was riding through an intersection, turned right and hit me). They didn't stop and seemed unaware they hit me. We were both ramping up from a stoplight and the speed was low enough that I just wound up with some mild road rash/bruises.

I've had a few other crashes, but those were my fault and never too serious (mostly road rash/bruises). These were mostly related to not being able to see something: mountain biking with transition lenses, hitting a shady patch and getting my wheel caught in a rut I didn't see, etc.

I have had more "almost accidents" and I credit defensive riding for this. I grew up in a crazy family with some mentally ill relatives and I learned at a young age to rely on myself and be on guard due to unpredictable people around me. While this experience caused me issues in other realms of life and cost some $ for therapy..., I actually think my ability to be naturally "on guard" and anticipate stuff from drivers around me helps me as a cyclist.

As I get older, there are two things that I think work in my favor: 1) I'm less likely to take risks as I get older and ride more conservatively and 2) the accrued knowledge of all prior experiences helps me anticipate and prepare for many situations on the road.

Lately, though, I have been more worried about senile older people that still drive. I know several older relatives and family friends that should probably not be driving due to early stages of senility, poor eyesight, poor coordination, too many meds with side effects, poor situational awareness... I heard that one of these family friends (he is fairly senile and in his 70's) hit a cyclist and he still has his license. His daughter tried to get him a caregiver and he refused. I've been around this guy and he definitely should not be driving.
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Old 06-14-14, 08:24 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by halcyon100 View Post
Clipped . . . . Lately, though, I have been more worried about senile older people that still drive. I know several older relatives and family friends that should probably not be driving due to early stages of senility, poor eyesight, poor coordination, too many meds with side effects, poor situational awareness... I heard that one of these family friends (he is fairly senile and in his 70's) hit a cyclist and he still has his license. His daughter tried to get him a caregiver and he refused. I've been around this guy and he definitely should not be driving.
I agree that this is an area of concern. However, we need to avoid lumping elderly people into a class. I've always thought that driving tests should be required at a certain age - for example 70(?) and above. That way elderly people that are still mentally sharp can continue driving, and elderly people that may have Dimentia or other issues can be given other transportation options and have their license removed. However, these people are individuals, not a class, and should be treated as individuals.
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Old 06-14-14, 08:25 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by J.C. Koto View Post
I think the most important take-away from this thread is that danishes are good.
Not as good as donuts.
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Old 06-14-14, 09:15 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I also like that cycling, while apparently not quite as safe as golf, is pretty close and is not nearly as dangerous as tennis.

The hazards of golf are illustrated right at the beginning. Warning: kind of a tacky compilation, but Six Feet Under was a great series, and the clips more than adequately convey the dangers of life when not on a bike.


My cycling strategy is in my sig.
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Old 06-14-14, 11:17 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by tractorlegs View Post
Not as good as donuts.
Now you're talkin'!

Back when I used to commute on my MTB I'd stop by the bakery on the way home and get 2-3 donuts to keep my company on the way home and I'd just slip 'em on the bar-ends for safe keeping.
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Old 06-15-14, 01:11 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by J.C. Koto View Post
Back when I used to commute on my MTB I'd stop by the bakery on the way home and get 2-3 donuts to keep my company on the way home and I'd just slip 'em on the bar-ends for safe keeping.
That wouldn't be safe in my old neighborhood, where the boys in blue were renowned for stop-and-frisk to combat the scourge of the sugar high – but secretly in the hope of scoring freebies "as evidence". Once I got caught with and relieved of a saddle bag full of Mille-feuille. Barely escaped a tazing after muttering something about Little Napoleons under my breath.
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Old 06-15-14, 01:54 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
I can't vouch for how accurate this is but I found a site that apparently tries to assess the danger of bicycling relative to other activities with statistics that take into account the fact that a lot more people drive than cycle.

Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits

[TABLE="width: 300, align: center"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 4"]Fatalities per Million Exposure Hours[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Skydiving[/TD]
[TD]128.71[/TD]
[TD]Snowmobiling[/TD]
[TD].88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]General Flying[/TD]
[TD]15.58[/TD]
[TD]Motoring[/TD]
[TD].47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Motorcycling[/TD]
[TD]8.80[/TD]
[TD]Water skiing[/TD]
[TD].28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scuba Diving[/TD]
[TD]1.98[/TD]
[TD]Bicycling[/TD]
[TD].26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Living[/TD]
[TD]1.53[/TD]
[TD]Airline Flying[/TD]
[TD].15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Swimming[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]Hunting[/TD]
[TD].08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Data compiled by Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This puts the risk of cycling right down there with flying.
But it's pretty darn hard for me to think that a lot of us commuters aren't doing much different than motorcyclists. Less padding, less speed. More in common with them than the very large number of folks who only drive to the MUP and then ride their bike into the bushes at 6.4 mph and won't touch a real road.

And they're #3 in that list. Behind non-commercial aviation and skydiving.
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Old 06-15-14, 06:13 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Saving Hawaii View Post
But it's pretty darn hard for me to think that a lot of us commuters aren't doing much different than motorcyclists. Less padding, less speed. More in common with them than the very large number of folks who only drive to the MUP and then ride their bike into the bushes at 6.4 mph and won't touch a real road.

And they're #3 in that list. Behind non-commercial aviation and skydiving.
I'm not sure what your point is. You think the stats for motorcycling should be closer to bicycling? Personally I think that motorcycles are way more dangerous. If you crash you're likely to be going much much faster than on a bicycle.
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Old 06-15-14, 07:14 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
I'm not sure what your point is. You think the stats for motorcycling should be closer to bicycling? Personally I think that motorcycles are way more dangerous. If you crash you're likely to be going much much faster than on a bicycle.
↑↑↑↑ This ↑↑↑↑ Having been both a cyclist and a motorcyclist, and also just keeping up with the local news, shows me that motorcycling is much more dangerous. The amount of protection motorcyclists have is about the same as us - but they have their collisions/accidents at much higher rates of speed. Also, the most dangerous period for a motorcyclist is 1. An inexperienced motorcyclist on an unfamiliar bike; 2. an experienced motorcyclist on a new bike for the first week or so.

Perhaps the amount of collisions/accidents are not higher for motorcyclists, but the results of these collisions are more devastating.
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Old 06-15-14, 07:30 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by tractorlegs View Post
↑↑↑↑ This ↑↑↑↑ Having been both a cyclist and a motorcyclist, and also just keeping up with the local news, shows me that motorcycling is much more dangerous. The amount of protection motorcyclists have is about the same as us - but they have their collisions/accidents at much higher rates of speed. Also, the most dangerous period for a motorcyclist is 1. An inexperienced motorcyclist on an unfamiliar bike; 2. an experienced motorcyclist on a new bike for the first week or so.

Perhaps the amount of collisions/accidents are not higher for motorcyclists, but the results of these collisions are more devastating.
+1. I was a semi-pro motorcycle racer for years. I've broken several bones in race crashes. Never crashed on public roads, but I was a wild man and came close. My career ended in 1996 with a head injury. 12 days in a comma and a couple years of recovery.

I could of course have an awful experience on my bicycle. But it does feel safer.
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Old 06-15-14, 03:40 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
I can't vouch for how accurate this is but I found a site that apparently tries to assess the danger of bicycling relative to other activities with statistics that take into account the fact that a lot more people drive than cycle.

Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits

[TABLE="width: 300, align: center"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 4"]Fatalities per Million Exposure Hours[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Skydiving[/TD]
[TD]128.71[/TD]
[TD]Snowmobiling[/TD]
[TD].88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]General Flying[/TD]
[TD]15.58[/TD]
[TD]Motoring[/TD]
[TD].47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Motorcycling[/TD]
[TD]8.80[/TD]
[TD]Water skiing[/TD]
[TD].28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scuba Diving[/TD]
[TD]1.98[/TD]
[TD]Bicycling[/TD]
[TD].26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Living[/TD]
[TD]1.53[/TD]
[TD]Airline Flying[/TD]
[TD].15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Swimming[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]Hunting[/TD]
[TD].08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Data compiled by Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This puts the risk of cycling right down there with flying.
That's pretty impressive especially comparing cycling with living. That indicates that the average person could ride a bicycle every minute that they're alive and still stand only a 1 in 6 chance of getting killed during the average lifespan.
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Old 06-15-14, 03:52 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
That's pretty impressive especially comparing cycling with living. That indicates that the average person could ride a bicycle every minute that they're alive and still stand only a 1 in 6 chance of getting killed during the average lifespan.
Statistics don't tend to hold up when extrapolated to the extreme, but bicycling remains an extremely safe activity, no matter how the data is analyzed. Possibly the best indicator of bicycling's safety is the fact that it's not counted as a risky activity (except for competitive cycling) when applying for life insurance. Bicyclists get no extra scrutiny, and qualify for the best rates, while participants in other sports may be denied the lowest rates, or asked to provide more details.

The insurance actuaries are very good at their jobs, so the message from them is that bicyclists are excellent risks, and the insurance companies can bet on them living a long time before cashing in the policies.
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