This will happen but it will quickly pass.

Trust cagers???!!!:eek:

Better to trust but verify (with a mirror); best to just verify.

This also may never happen, but the mirror is always there and easily accessed, for example when Jim's Law of the Road is in effect:

See, that's exactly why I got a mirror, because looking over my shoulder long enough to what's going on behind ALWAYS makes me drift off my line. With a mirror, I can look at what's behind me while the stuff in front of me is still in my peripheral vision.

As for relying in my ears, my ears can't give the same acuity in terms of the approaching car's lane position, approach speed, and distance to me that a mirror can; not even close. And I simply am not going to trust drivers with my life when there's something I can employ to gain more situational awareness.

In the 5 years I've used a mirror, I've bailed out of the lane twice. Two times a car approached me so quickly that I either squeezed to the right against the curb, or jumped up a driveway apron onto the sidewalk. Those are two cases where the mirror definitely saved me from serious injury. In the first incident, the minivan did change lanes, but did so far too late to miss me if I'd have stayed in the left tire track. In the second one, the car passed me right after I got up on the sidewalk. The driver actually slowed down and apologized, admitting she didn't see me until I moved out of her way. (She was almost as mortified as I was angry; I hope she pays more attention now.)

I don't see a mirror as a panacea, but I certainly wouldn't operate in traffic without it. Anything that increases your situational awareness and gives you more information to make sound decisions in traffic can't be bad.

On my off days I'm a cager too ... I think on the whole (at least where I live - YMMV) most drivers are attentive. I think also "taking the lane" or at least making my presence seen and felt (by NOT cowering far right or in the gutter) raises that attentiveness. I think it's also a function of familiarity with your roads. There's one road here on my commute that is "dicey" -- but really, it's not, it just feels that way because it's really just busy -- because there's a lot of space on the right side of the road. I think if you're deliberate in the way you ride, and somewhat assertive, it serves you well.

I see your point and respect your opinion. Just saying what I feel works for me.

Maybe it's because I've been "playing in traffic" on bicycles since I was a kid. As I said in the other post, I think if you're deliberate and decisive in the way you ride, and somewhat assertive yet respectful, you'll be fine on the roads. There will always be outliers, that's just a fact of life.

Such drama! I did not discourage mirror use but I do believe that mirror use should be *secondary* to a shoulder check. Riding without looking back when changing lanes is like a mild form of russian roulette.

It takes less than a second to do a shoulder check and if a rider is incapable of maintaining their line while doing a shoulder check they should not be riding in traffic. Mirrors have significant blind spots and limited field of views. While mirrors are useful when cycling on high-speed roads with clear sight lines they are, IMO, essentially useless when negotiating dynamic and dense urban traffic.

People who cycle for a living almost never use mirrors. In fact, there is little actual evidence that mirrors significantly reduce risk.

I think mirror use can be helpful in some circumstances. Nevertheless, your claim that a mirror would increase my "situational awareness" is amusing. IMO, those who argue that mirrors are always helpful simply do not have much experience riding in dense urban traffic and are extrapolating from multi-lane high speed roads with clear sight lines (eg ex-, sub- and sprawl-urban street design).

When I used to ride road bikes I tried a few different kinds of mirrors. For me personally a helmet mirror was useless! Actually worse than useless since I still tried to find stuff in it and undoubtedly was at least a little bit less safe.

Strong votes for a bar end mirror though. I loved it. I'm on a Surly LHTD now where shifters are on the bar ends. But otherwise that's where my mirror would still be.

I agree with part of what you say.

The claim that mirrors increase situational awareness and/or do so in a way that enhances your safety can't be logically supported in all cases. I think your example of dense urban traffic is a good one. In that kind of traffic I'm heads down, keeping up a good pace, and watching what's in front of me, knowing that I can't do much about what's behind me anyway and best protect my safety by following a good and predictable line.

Nevertheless, I find mirrors improving my safety by enhancing situational awareness on less crowded streets with little traffic. I love to ride on such streets if I can (my commute is 20 miles instead of 15 miles for that reason). On those kinds of roads I like to let my guard down some. I may move significantly further into the lane than I otherwise would, but maintaining some awareness of an approaching car coming up behind me by using my mirror. It is true that on a quiet road like that you can use your ears too. But for me at least I know I often spot a car long before I can hear them. I would rather move out of the way casually than urgently.

Leisesturm, I finally agree with you, although I do not use a mirror. I see riders with bar end mirrors who are clueless as to what is happening behind them-they usually have to bend to actually see anything. A good part of my commute is along a four lane road with no berm-mirror of no help. About the only thing it would help with is giving me comfort that a car approaching me from behind has moved out to the passing lane-now I clench slightly until they are in my field of view. My attention is always on the road ahead of me, to hopefully minimize the impact of surprise potholes and debris, I turn around before making lane changes.

I use a shoulder check as secondary to a mirror check, because the mirror check is a more continuous monitor of upcoming traffic.

Mirrors are particularly useful when sudden obstacles appear on the right (cars pulling out, potholes, etc), to maintain forward vision, as vehicles are passing on the left.

I ride through the maze of twisted, complicated and busy Boston traffic, including downtown, with notoriously-reputed drivers and weather-beaten road surfaces. Besides the near continuous rearward monitoring, glances to a mirror are quicker, and more stable than shoulder checks.

I don’t make my living by cycling, but I am a decades-long, year-round cycle commuter of 14 miles through Boston streets and traffic.

FWIW and to each his own, but I would not discourage mirror use, or even dismiss riding with a mirror, as freely given advice.

I don't ride in NYC :). I am generally fine with traffic as it exists where I am, but its mostly moderate traffic roads that are used to bikes, or roads with good bike lanes. I would not like the more crazy roads or riding in NYC from the way people describe it. I occasionally go on some of the busier roads at rush hour in SF that don't have a dedicated bike lane, but usually on one of those bike share bikes on days that I bus in SF. Traffic is usually in a traffic jam and I am working my way through it. My normal commute is a largely a mix of roads with bike lanes, bike friendly roads, and paths.


I have to agree with PaulRivers, that looks like a mirror worth using, not a small little thing. I see some other videos posted here so will have to look it up. I feel like drop bars make it a bit more challenging to get a well positioned mirror, but I will evaluate some options for that or helmet/glasses mount.

Actually, it didn't come home with me..posted this from work not that long after the commute. As the day went on I was fine with it and upon reflection realized that what got me was less that it was a close call and more the reaction of the driver - yelling and cursing at me when I was doing the proper and legal thing. Whatever his reason (caught of guard, defensive, natural a-hole, etc.) it doesn't really matter. You are right, these things come with cycling, and you need to brush them off and move on. The next thing in my mind is what can I do to better avoid that or to not get caught as off guard...so now I am thinking about mirror options and its reminding me the value of lights and hi-vis to be easily seen in day.

Can there really be anything beyond the tiniest fraction of cyclists who make a "living" from cycling? Do you mean to suggest that this tiny coterie of allegedly expert cyclists are the cream of the crop for commuters to emulate?

"People who cycle for a living" Who dat? Food delivery people? I didn't know those people had anything on their broken down bicycles but a basket. Messengers? One speed and maybe brakes. Or maybe you meant those fellows recently on TV cycling about France.

There is a lot of speculation, conjuring, wishful thinking and manipulation of various factoids regarding reducing bicycling risk, often posted or repeated by those with various self-interested agendas to promote.

There is little actual credible evidence of any bicycling product significantly increasing or decreasing the risk of injury or death while bicycling.

Shoulder checks have a 180 field of view ... they should not be secondary.

I am not dismissing mirrors. If I commuted in suburban Phoenix I would likely use a mirror. I believe there are situations and riding styles where a mirror can be helpful but I object to the suggestion that a mirror is always essential for everyone and in every context.

that's my point. the things cyclists do to make themselves feel better about cycling in traffic are often based on anecdote, not evidence.

absolutely not. nor do i suggest that anyone ride like me or own the bikes i own. i'm pretty ridiculous (and proud of it). i simply object to the idea that the use of any particular bike, cycling style, or safety paraphernalia is the *best* way to ride.

There is a good discussion of the pros and cons of mirror use at EcoVelo:

And this sums up my position exactly:
EcoVelo » Blog Archive » Bicycle Mirror Pros & Cons

Nobody needs anything beyond their own experience to determine what makes them feel better when cycling. There are some posters seem to feel that they need confirmation, i.e. "evidence", from BF "experts" for their cycling equipment, clothing, or technique, as well as if they bought the best or ultimate bike or cycling doo-dad.

We are in agreement that no particular bike, cycling style, or safety paraphernalia is the *best* way to ride.

As objectionable perhaps as insisting/inferring that a 180° rear field of view is essential before safely changing lanes? Or that no lane change can/should be made without such a view before proceeding?

I look over my shoulder a bit when taking the lane, but only enough for a glance at my blind spot. The more time I'm focused on what's in front of me, the faster I'll react to surprise threats. I feel that my mirror is letting me make a safer maneuver in that respect.

BS. Just because you think it's not safe doesn't mean doodly squat. And, no, a helmet mounted mirror does NOT have "significant blind spots and limited field of views." With just a bit of head movement you can take in a 360 view around you.

I ride on multi-lane roads and I also ride in dense urban traffic. I find a mirror helpful. You can disagree, but don't pretend to know everything. A mirror is a tool. It doesn't provide complete awareness, but it is extremely useful in many situations. If you want to just limit your riding to dense urban traffic and don't think a mirror helps you, that's your choice, but don't discount the utility of a mirror if you don't use one.

I prefer making one quick movement....but to each their own.

I limit my *commuting* to a dense urban environment because I live in one.

Why the heck would I disagree? And if you bothered to actually read what I wrote instead of being dogmatic you would realize that the comment you quoted spoke to my personal experiences/preferences.

I use mirrors when I tour or ride on high-speed roads for a longer distances. And once again your dogmatism is what I am arguing against.

I have no stats... or points to prove. But in my long life of experience.... almost every time I have seen an over-reaction of the fight or flight response [like the one the motorist had] there has been some pre-exiting event. Often people on the verge of an emotional response already.... blow-up at a fright that would NOT normally be a big deal. The drivers reaction.... had nothing to do with you.