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-   -   flashing red tail light mounted on the front, facing forward (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/960878-flashing-red-tail-light-mounted-front-facing-forward.html)

Mvcrash 08-01-14 02:05 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16996147)
This misses the point of my question. Sure, one might get a citation, but most don't get them. My question is what the user thinks is to be gained from it, citation or none.

NYC was the wild, wild east of traffic enforcement, especially for bicycles, until very recently. Now cyclists are getting tickets for running red lights and other infractions. Some are even being cited for not having bells or lights.


Obviously it it an attempt at being seen. It is also making the statement that they don't know the laws in the state. It all comes down to cyclists attempting to be seen at night. The fact remains that the human eye was not designed to see at night and as a result, cycling at night is very dangerous. Studies show that a flashing light of any color will attract the human eye better than a steady light of any color. So, although the color is not legal, the flasher will attract the driver's eye, even if you think it is stupid.

noglider 08-01-14 10:10 PM

OK, so I might be the stupid one. I've made a policy of setting my lights to "steady" most of the time. Where can I read these studies? I'd love to learn from them and improve my routine.

psy 08-02-14 12:36 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16997762)
OK, so I might be the stupid one. I've made a policy of setting my lights to "steady" most of the time. Where can I read these studies? I'd love to learn from them and improve my routine.

2nd that

Shahmatt 08-02-14 01:32 AM

Actually I read somewhere that having one light on steady, and another on blinky is a good combination.

The blinky to catch attention. The steady to help motorists track the movement and judge the speed of the cyclist.

noglider 08-02-14 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by Shahmatt (Post 16997993)
Actually I read somewhere that having one light on steady, and another on blinky is a good combination.

The blinky to catch attention. The steady to help motorists track the movement and judge the speed of the cyclist.

That does make a lot of sense to me. I sometimes do that with two tail lights, one steady, one blinking. There are some battery powered headlights that shine continuously and give a burst of extra brightness every second or so. That seems sensible, but I'm not sure I would light my path that way. More likely, I would use a steady headlight to see by, pointed the same way as a car's low beam plus a flashing light pointed straight ahead. The latter would NOT be one of those insanely bright ones designed to assault motorists' eyes.

Papa Tom 08-02-14 03:04 PM

I can't believe I'm seeing this post for the first time. I just saw a couple doing this last night and my reaction was the same "WTF?" as most of the people here.

I think it's just a case of "Hey, those lights are really visible on the rear of the bike, so let's put them on the FRONT for double the effectiveness." These people just need to understand that bicycling - especially NIGHT bicycling - is something to be taken seriously, and that there is a certain protocol that needs to be followed if you want to stay fairly safe.

I seriously thought about pulling this couple over and explaining to them that the red flashers on front were really confusing to drivers, but I didn't feel like risking getting a bunch of lip thrown at me with my grandchildren in the car.

noglider 08-04-14 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Mvcrash (Post 16996583)
Obviously it it an attempt at being seen. It is also making the statement that they don't know the laws in the state. It all comes down to cyclists attempting to be seen at night. The fact remains that the human eye was not designed to see at night and as a result, cycling at night is very dangerous. Studies show that a flashing light of any color will attract the human eye better than a steady light of any color. So, although the color is not legal, the flasher will attract the driver's eye, even if you think it is stupid.

[MENTION=350993]Mvcrash[/MENTION], will we be hearing from you about the studies you're referring to? Some European governments forbid flashing lights, and I don't know if there are studies behind that, but there might be. And if there are, I don't know how good they are.

Mvcrash 08-04-14 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17004486)
@Mvcrash, will we be hearing from you about the studies you're referring to? Some European governments forbid flashing lights, and I don't know if there are studies behind that, but there might be. And if there are, I don't know how good they are.

Google is your freind. There are tons of studies.

noglider 08-04-14 09:40 AM

OK, so no studies you can cite. Thanks. Now I know you made it up. I'll change my mind and admit I'm wrong if you can provide a citation.

I know how to google. I make a living with it. Saying something exists and telling me it's my job to find it is not proof of anything.

noglider 08-04-14 09:45 AM

On the other hand, there is this study which shows that a blinking headlight is more conspicuous than a steady one, but the blinking one leaves you no safer and possibly less safe.

noglider 08-04-14 09:52 AM

Here, there is also an argument that flashing lights improve conspicuity but not necessarily safety, since safety relies, to an extent, on the driver in question being able to judge your location and trajectory. The steady light is better at that than a flashing light is.

I'm not saying flashing lights are entirely bad. They are not, and I use them. I'm saying that all flashing lights are not better than all steady lights. Also, if flashing/steady is your only decision criterion, you haven't made an informed decision.

If I felt I needed a flashing white headlight, I would (1) make sure it doesn't point straight in someone's eyes, and (2) I would limit its intensity to about 100 lumens or less. Not sure exactly of the amount, but that's my hunch. I think a steady white steady headlight, along with a flashing white headlight of lesser intensity would make a nice combination.

MichaelW 08-04-14 09:57 AM

Doppler App. An app that makes the screen glows red if moved in one direction and white in the other??

TransitBiker 08-05-14 01:41 AM

I don't want blinking lights on the front, it's distracting to me and makes it harder to see the road.

Most land vehicles that i'm aware of have red in rear and white in front. Railroad equipment, mine trucks, ATV, etc all hae the same setup. On rail vehicles, the red lights are referred to as marker lights, and they are always on when that vehicle (be it a locomotive, railcar, or other maintenance type equipment) is the rearmost part of the train or movement. I see no reason to have it blink if the railroad industry does not, and automobiles do not.

- Andy

ascherer 08-05-14 06:49 AM


Originally Posted by TransitBiker (Post 17007280)
I see no reason to have it blink if the railroad industry does not, and automobiles do not.

- Andy

Consider that emergency, maintenance and utility vehicles all are part of the above industries and they use flashing lights. Why would that be? I believe that flashing lights are attention getting, and I suspect we're conditioned to expect that something moving on the road with a flashing light is a different class of vehicle that may not behave in the same manner as normal traffic.

noglider 08-05-14 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 17007615)
Consider that emergency, maintenance and utility vehicles all are part of the above industries and they use flashing lights. Why would that be? I believe that flashing lights are attention getting, and I suspect we're conditioned to expect that something moving on the road with a flashing light is a different class of vehicle that may not behave in the same manner as normal traffic.

That's the best argument so far, and a very good one. I still say that there should be at least two tail lights. One should flash, and one should be steady. The steady one (or more) should be brighter than the flashing one(s).

I feel pretty safe so far with my one steady headlight in front. Maybe that will change over time. I'm currently using European shaped-beam headlights. One is a B&M, the other a Philips. No blinding people, lots of light for being seen, and lots of light for seeing by if needed.

italktocats 08-05-14 12:56 PM

you saw them; it works!

italktocats 08-05-14 12:57 PM

and you most likely paid extra attention AND gave em more room?

IT DOUBLE DOUBLE WORKED!

noglider 08-05-14 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by italktocats (Post 17008947)
and you most likely paid extra attention AND gave em more room?

IT DOUBLE DOUBLE WORKED!

It's a narrow busy bike path, so it was not hard to pass them in the oncoming direction. To be truthful, it wasn't painful. Some of these ultra high intensity white headlights people run inappropriately are truly painful.

ascherer 08-05-14 02:19 PM

To be clear, I rarely ride at night; I use blinkers (white front and red rear) in hopes it will enhance my visibility during my daytime commute on the streets in Manhattan. The concept of one steady and one blinking appeals to me if I were to be on the road in the dark.

KnurledNut 08-05-14 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16996147)
NYC was the wild, wild east of traffic enforcement, especially for bicycles, until very recently. Now cyclists are getting tickets for running red lights and other infractions. Some are even being cited for not having bells or lights.

It happens in Florida as well. A bicycle is supposed to follow the same road rules as every other vehicle, sadly most don't. I don't how many times I've almost hit a rider because they ran a red light or stop sign. Luckily I look twice. Some of the riders aren't so lucky.

noglider 08-05-14 02:39 PM

Yup, the laws and enforcement make us unsafe as things are now. And the half of cyclists who don't know how to ride safely worsen the image of those of us who do.

Mvcrash 08-15-14 07:41 AM

I know some of you ride at night. Here is a good paper on conspicuity. From 2010, and out of AU, but has some interesting facts that I would think can be used here.



Cyclist visibility at night: Perceptions of visibility do
not necessarily match reality
by JM

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...0slEvAaolFtveQ


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