Bike lanes are to keep cyclists from slowing down motor vehicles. That's it, plain and simple. Not slowing others down is ingrained in our culture. For those that think slowing others down is acceptable, try this. For the next year, at your workplace, perform at about 1/3 of the speed of everyone around you. Report back on the results, if you can still afford your internet access while unemployed.
They put bike lanes on roads to keep traffic flowing smoothly, because when it doesn't, they have more accidents on the roads.

Yup, that's what the poll results say, too...I wonder what the response would be at a motorist's web site?

I think the motorists want us stuck in the velodrome.

The main purpose of any road improvement is firstly to increase traffic flow, and secondly to improve safety.

In that order.

And the biased poll award goes to.....

Yup. Some people seem to have no joy in life unless they pick an "evil" and fight it to the death.

This puts him firmly in the troll book, in my opinion. Hopefully a moderator will get rid of this nuisance. (I have no patience for people who use forums disruptively and only for their own entertainment. The dishonesty of using a second handle just adds to that.)

Interesting. I'll have to give that some more thought. Doesn't bringing attention to some of the problems caused by bike lanes, particularly in terms of how bike lanes affect perception of cyclist's rights, have some potential in conveying some of that confidence. To me, it seems analagous to pointing out the problems with separated water fountains in the segregated South.


Well, I do have an axe to grind: the acceptance by cyclists of bike lanes as a facility for cyclists.


Well, I guess I haven't figured out how to convey that confidence then.


Of course. But I guess I don't find that very interesting to talk about. Gearheads like to ride too, but they'd rather talk about gear.


OK, now I'm beginning to see where our real difference might be.


OK so far, because I too am very comfortable riding in or out of a bike lane.


No, I get that. My point is that almost every cyclist out there I see doesn't ride as if they get that. I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist ride outside of door zone bike lane (besides seeing myself do it, of course).


Maybe where you live. But certainly not in San Diego. Maybe that's the difference.


I strongly disagree with that. Why are they so surprised and so upset with motorists for not seeing them in the bike lane and cutting them off if they are "perfectly aware of the potential problems posed by bike lanes?"


No, at least from what I observe both when I'm riding and when I'm driving, you're right that they don't worry about it. But as they don't worry about it, they just ride in the bike lane, regardless of whether that is appropriate for the situation.


I agree with that to an extent. My only hesitation is that I think there are a lot of cyclists out there, the vast majority of them in fact, who don't realize when bike lanes are not safe, despite being smart.


I think this is our main difference. I believe most people, including most cyclists, often have no idea how unsafe bike lanes can be. More importantly, they have no idea how unsafe it is to keep to the right in many situations, which is why they don't understand why it is unsafe to remain in the bike lane in those situations.


Sidewalk cyclists and wrong way cyclists are very rare where I live, so I'm not that concerned about that issue. Lack of awareness of the dangers of keeping to the right is a much bigger problem in my mind, and why I oppose bike lanes so much, because they foster the mentality that keeps cyclists to the right even when it is inappropriate and unsafe for them to be there, and they reinforce the notion to motorists that cyclists should always keep to the right and out of the way of motorists.


I certainly cannot argue with that!

Serge

For the same reason that other motorists are upset when stupid motorists plow into them... the simple reason that someone behind the wheel was not paying attention.


and these folks are going to magically, suddenly become smart about simply riding in the open roadways? LOL


Show me the data... BL are not inherently unsafe... intersections ARE!

But, grolby recognizes the dangers of bike lanes, presumably including the fact that they tend to guide cyclists to ride near the right edge of the roadway where motorists are naturally and understandably often not paying attention.

When motorists are upset when others plow into them, it's because someone was not paying attention to somewhere where he should have been paying attention.

But, often, in the case of a cyclist riding outside of where traffic normally operates (i.e, off to the right, like in a bike lane), and, thus, where others tend NOT to look for traffic and pay attention, why is he surprised when someone doesn't see him? I don't get it. Unless, he actually does not understand the dangers of riding off to the side and in the bike lane...


My statement was made in the context of a dialog with grolby, he already conceded the safety issues associated with bike lanes. Our point of contention is whether cyclists generally realize the dangers or not. You are confirming my position... they don't.

Serge,

Since you brought this subject up again, I want to ask you again. Is there a demonstration of a relatively high speed road (over 50mph) which is not a limited access highway or freeway, which accomodates WOL's? There is a big difference between residential streets where WOL's are common and high speed roads, and there is a big difference between a limited access highway and a highway with many intersections due to the number of potential interactions between cyclists and cars.

Until you can describe a real road such as this and describe the way cyclists and cars interact and the way debris accumulates on the road and the way cars respond to a WOL, I will not lend much credence to the theoretical advantages of a WOL. I put the burden of proof onto you because you are the one trying to change the statis quo.

I can be convinced, but I need data. Bike lanes have demonstrated to be a reasonable bike facility for those who know how to make proper use of them. For those who don't, we can teach them through a drivers ed like course, or it can be learned with experience and with basic VC concepts. The fact that we are all comfortable riding in BL's illustrates the point of education. Post pictures. Post data. Don't just talk.

BR