The "ultimate urban bike"
#51
contiuniously variable
- Andy
#52
contiuniously variable
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 219
Bikes: Five active bikes: 1983 Diamondback RidgeRunner (early production mountain bike), 1951 Raleigh Sports 3spd, 2012 Novara Safari, 2013 Schwinn 411 IGH, 2016 Jamis Roughneck Fatbike; plus a Trek T900 tandem shared with the family
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's not on the prototype, but we're working on using the planetary pole shifts instead of the generator bottle to power the lights. I can reveal that we're partnering with Lucas on the lighting and electrical system, which should offer reliability equal to the periodical nature of the pole shifts.
#54
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
This would be a deal killer for people in some locations.
That being said I still passed some cyclists on climbs who were having a much harder time and know there are a few hills here that would require lower gearing.
#55
Senior Member
I would like to see their 3 model range in every bike shop. Drum or roller brakes, front brake with integral dyno, drive could come in single speed, 2x7, or 3/7 speed geared hub. Not re-inventing the wheel as these people keep doing every so often with designs like the one in the original post, and i think it would work.
- Andy
- Andy
That said, it also does work out better for most shops if commuters buy hybrids and accessorize them. Only the most profitable bike shops in the country make any profit on bicycle sales - at most shops, bicycle margins do not account for their share of shop expenses. Even where they do, it's by the slimmest of margins. Unfortunately, a bike that comes with fenders, racks and baskets pre-installed is probably a money-losing sale for most bike shops.
#56
contiuniously variable
They would mostly sit on the shop floor gathering dust. As someone who actually works at a bike shop: we do stock and sell city bikes, but the volumes are relatively low. The most popular models, by far, are hybrids. That includes people who intend to commute by bike. That's what most people around here want. It's not because we have a particular interest in pushing hybrids over city bikes, people generally prefer them and are most interested in them. That's the reality of the US market.
That said, it also does work out better for most shops if commuters buy hybrids and accessorize them. Only the most profitable bike shops in the country make any profit on bicycle sales - at most shops, bicycle margins do not account for their share of shop expenses. Even where they do, it's by the slimmest of margins. Unfortunately, a bike that comes with fenders, racks and baskets pre-installed is probably a money-losing sale for most bike shops.
That said, it also does work out better for most shops if commuters buy hybrids and accessorize them. Only the most profitable bike shops in the country make any profit on bicycle sales - at most shops, bicycle margins do not account for their share of shop expenses. Even where they do, it's by the slimmest of margins. Unfortunately, a bike that comes with fenders, racks and baskets pre-installed is probably a money-losing sale for most bike shops.
On the point of hybrids.... I think we'll end up talking about what the US did really from ww1 onwards, in terms of general business practices, and political atmosphere. We have no sense of solidarity here. We were not bombed every day for months. We were not invaded and had our wives and daughters ***** and our brothers shot in their beds by invading armies. We don't realize that what we do profoundly and absolutely affects everyone else, that the water a store stocks in maine can affect a farmer in california. There is a huge disconnect between cause and effect geographically. I feel that if we collectively had the mind to more have the interest of the country as a whole higher on our lit of priorities, we would not be where we are today, we would be in a better place. Town/city bike use takes a certain mentality that is largely lacking here. I feel personally that if we had more common sense guided policies, and more compassion guided policies as most other nations do (not saying they are perfect), we would have a huge market for them, and still have that same number of hybrid sales.
The key issue here NOW (as we cannot go back in time) is lack of a unified, integrated, and sustainable transportation infrastructure AND a sustainable way to power, build, and maintain such a thing if it does come to be. I see well built and not extremely expensive city/town bikes as a way to get to that place, and all of these "this bike is the answer" designs as evolutionary dead ends that showcase exactly what NOT to do. Instead of getting nerdy and passionate about ultimate this and that, we should be nerdy and passionate about practical long term solutions that give is an integrated sustainable transport infrastructure. And you know, you might just find it a lot easier to own a bike shop as a result, and that plugs into employment and people with skill sets and neighborhood pride and the rising tide lifts all boats kinda thing.
- Andy
#57
contiuniously variable
It's not on the prototype, but we're working on using the planetary pole shifts instead of the generator bottle to power the lights. I can reveal that we're partnering with Lucas on the lighting and electrical system, which should offer reliability equal to the periodical nature of the pole shifts.
- Andy
#59
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times
in
1,031 Posts
#60
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,584
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times
in
392 Posts
I've asked the judges if they'll take a late entry. I've worked with a secret factory staffed by merry men in Nottingham to get our prototype ready quickly.
First off we're going to win on style (seems to be what's important in this case). Our current prototype is dripping with steampunk bling. But look at these functional innovations:
Three (count'em, THREE) full speeds.
Special full coverage metal things to keep road spray and grit at bay (we're calling them Mudgards, since it seems Fenders is taken by some electronical guitar company). Wait till you try these!
Classic North Road handlebar shape made famous by Rivendell.
Attachment flange for lights or ipod or cager-rager short-range stink bomb launcher on stem.
New braking technology that reminds you to slow down in the rain by making it hard for you to slow down in the rain (it's a zen thing!)
Instead of a fancy pull out rear rack, we are using a new mechanism to allow the attachment of various size bags to right to the seat. No rack needed at all.
First off we're going to win on style (seems to be what's important in this case). Our current prototype is dripping with steampunk bling. But look at these functional innovations:
Three (count'em, THREE) full speeds.
Special full coverage metal things to keep road spray and grit at bay (we're calling them Mudgards, since it seems Fenders is taken by some electronical guitar company). Wait till you try these!
Classic North Road handlebar shape made famous by Rivendell.
Attachment flange for lights or ipod or cager-rager short-range stink bomb launcher on stem.
New braking technology that reminds you to slow down in the rain by making it hard for you to slow down in the rain (it's a zen thing!)
Instead of a fancy pull out rear rack, we are using a new mechanism to allow the attachment of various size bags to right to the seat. No rack needed at all.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,088
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked 1,151 Times
in
587 Posts
Seems to me the definitive comment on this "project" was made last week:
Bike Snob NYC: Just when you think nobody can improve the bicycle, someone proves you right.
Bike Snob NYC: Just when you think nobody can improve the bicycle, someone proves you right.
#62
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times
in
1,031 Posts
Seems to me the definitive comment on this "project" was made last week:
Bike Snob NYC: Just when you think nobody can improve the bicycle, someone proves you right.
Bike Snob NYC: Just when you think nobody can improve the bicycle, someone proves you right.
#63
contiuniously variable
You know, some people actually like to have useful technology. Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish by comparing a dead end bike design to an endlessly useful device other than looking like a curmudgeon..
- Andy
#64
bill nyecycles
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,341
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked 349 Times
in
189 Posts
I think some of them are kinda nifty. Yes, a few look downright awful, but I think the utility features on some are cool.
I think some of y'all need to relax and embrace design and innovation, while at the same time looking at us in your rear view mirror on your $6000 carbon bike flying through the air completely above the fray.
wait, who am i kidding. you don't use mirrors. too weighty.
I think some of y'all need to relax and embrace design and innovation, while at the same time looking at us in your rear view mirror on your $6000 carbon bike flying through the air completely above the fray.
wait, who am i kidding. you don't use mirrors. too weighty.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 219
Bikes: Five active bikes: 1983 Diamondback RidgeRunner (early production mountain bike), 1951 Raleigh Sports 3spd, 2012 Novara Safari, 2013 Schwinn 411 IGH, 2016 Jamis Roughneck Fatbike; plus a Trek T900 tandem shared with the family
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Folks ride differently and have different needs and desires. I get that. I'm having fun with it comparing the contest entries with a Churchillian idea of the ultimate urban bike and finding it wanting, but in cold fact these may be less practical for many kinds of urban riders than this "outdated" design. Now that's a shame.
Most of them look like visual representations of a bicycle: a high end, aesthetically pleasing expression of the "Bicycle Shaped Object" we object to in department store bikes. They look like cool bikes, but they don't appear to function well as urban bikes.
Most of them look like visual representations of a bicycle: a high end, aesthetically pleasing expression of the "Bicycle Shaped Object" we object to in department store bikes. They look like cool bikes, but they don't appear to function well as urban bikes.
#66
Senior Member
The key issue here NOW (as we cannot go back in time) is lack of a unified, integrated, and sustainable transportation infrastructure AND a sustainable way to power, build, and maintain such a thing if it does come to be. I see well built and not extremely expensive city/town bikes as a way to get to that place, and all of these "this bike is the answer" designs as evolutionary dead ends that showcase exactly what NOT to do. Instead of getting nerdy and passionate about ultimate this and that, we should be nerdy and passionate about practical long term solutions that give is an integrated sustainable transport infrastructure. And you know, you might just find it a lot easier to own a bike shop as a result, and that plugs into employment and people with skill sets and neighborhood pride and the rising tide lifts all boats kinda thing.
- Andy
- Andy
#67
contiuniously variable
I couldn't agree more with this paragraph, that's exactly how I see this design challenge. It's magical thinking in a world where every single niche in society is looking for its "iPhone moment." If you want to change the world, the thinking goes, you just need to build an amazing product that that everyone gets really excited about and goes out and buys! They overlook that, while the iPhone was transformative in a certain specific way, that it didn't emerge in a vacuum. The infrastructure to support that product was in the making for something like 30 years, so that there were voice and data cellular networks to carry radio signals from the iPhone to the rest of the network and back again. In terms of transportation infrastructure to support a bicycle equivalent to the iPhone, we're not in 2007, we're in the mid 1980's with huge Motorola brick phones. At best. An iPhone in 1986 would've been mostly useless. And that's the fate of these bikes in the U.S. today.
- Andy
#68
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
For many years this has been regarded as the best off the peg city bicycle made...
#69
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times
in
1,031 Posts
#70
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
One should note that, at the time there were very few bicycles available on this side of the pond that came this well equipped with a design that specifically designed for urban utility.
Breeze has long advocated for improved cycling infrastructure and started developing his own line of ergonomically comfortable bicycles like the Breezer Uptown which were inspired by the European city bicycles you yourself seem to prefer.
It was industry reviewers and consumers that have made this a very successful bicycle... consumers who did not want to race anyone but wanted a comfortable, well equipped bicycle at a good price.
My wife's Breezer is 8 years old and was ridden daily in Portland and now lives here in the far frozen north and has shown itself to be an excellent winter bicycle with the addition of studded tyres... the enclosed chaincase means that the required maintenance on the drivetrain is minimal.
If I was to start selling a model of bicycle through my shop the Breezer would top my list and have talked to Joe about this since distribution of these bicycles here is lacking and many people we meet who see this bicycle wants to know where it came from and how they can get one.
#71
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times
in
1,031 Posts
Joe Breeze is a utilitarian cyclist and while he ran Breezer decided that someone needed to market a fully equipped city bike which gives a nod to the past with it's full fenders, chaincase, and generator lighting and coupled that with an 8 speed internal hub to give a nice range of gearing.
One should note that, at the time there were very few bicycles available on this side of the pond that came this well equipped with a design that specifically designed for urban utility.
Breeze has long advocated for improved cycling infrastructure and started developing his own line of ergonomically comfortable bicycles like the Breezer Uptown which were inspired by the European city bicycles you yourself seem to prefer.
It was industry reviewers and consumers that have made this a very successful bicycle... consumers who did not want to race anyone but wanted a comfortable, well equipped bicycle at a good price.
My wife's Breezer is 8 years old and was ridden daily in Portland and now lives here in the far frozen north and has shown itself to be an excellent winter bicycle with the addition of studded tyres... the enclosed chaincase means that the required maintenance on the drivetrain is minimal.
If I was to start selling a model of bicycle through my shop the Breezer would top my list and have talked to Joe about this since distribution of these bicycles here is lacking and many people we meet who see this bicycle wants to know where it came from and how they can get one.
One should note that, at the time there were very few bicycles available on this side of the pond that came this well equipped with a design that specifically designed for urban utility.
Breeze has long advocated for improved cycling infrastructure and started developing his own line of ergonomically comfortable bicycles like the Breezer Uptown which were inspired by the European city bicycles you yourself seem to prefer.
It was industry reviewers and consumers that have made this a very successful bicycle... consumers who did not want to race anyone but wanted a comfortable, well equipped bicycle at a good price.
My wife's Breezer is 8 years old and was ridden daily in Portland and now lives here in the far frozen north and has shown itself to be an excellent winter bicycle with the addition of studded tyres... the enclosed chaincase means that the required maintenance on the drivetrain is minimal.
If I was to start selling a model of bicycle through my shop the Breezer would top my list and have talked to Joe about this since distribution of these bicycles here is lacking and many people we meet who see this bicycle wants to know where it came from and how they can get one.
My only objection is to your use of your use of the phrase "has been regarded as the best off the peg city bicycle made..." to describe it. I guess it all depends how you want to define "regarded" as well as "best off the peg city bicycle made."
As you point out, its distribution is spotty and scarce; an unavailable bike is not "off the peg" in my opinion. Also, possibly your regard for "best" may require a price not considered qualifier.
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
To you. We have similar bikeshare bikes here in DC. They suck on our hills. I've also worked on Euro bikes at my clinic,and anything that requires more than one tool and parts removal to remove the rear wheel is all fail.
I dropped somebody on a bikeshare cranking up Wisc Ave today. I was on my Big Dummy with a load of groceries,including 3 12pks of soda. I'll stick with my 3x derailleur drivetrains.
I dropped somebody on a bikeshare cranking up Wisc Ave today. I was on my Big Dummy with a load of groceries,including 3 12pks of soda. I'll stick with my 3x derailleur drivetrains.
why? you should ride it...
#73
DancesWithSUVs
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Griffin Cycle Bethesda,MD
Posts: 6,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
__________________
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
#74
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
I am in 100% agreement with you that the Breezer seems to be a fine choice for a city bike and Joe Breeze may be a wonderful person.
My only objection is to your use of your use of the phrase "has been regarded as the best off the peg city bicycle made..." to describe it. I guess it all depends how you want to define "regarded" as well as "best off the peg city bicycle made."
As you point out, its distribution is spotty and scarce; an unavailable bike is not "off the peg" in my opinion. Also, possibly your regard for "best" may require a price not considered qualifier.
My only objection is to your use of your use of the phrase "has been regarded as the best off the peg city bicycle made..." to describe it. I guess it all depends how you want to define "regarded" as well as "best off the peg city bicycle made."
As you point out, its distribution is spotty and scarce; an unavailable bike is not "off the peg" in my opinion. Also, possibly your regard for "best" may require a price not considered qualifier.
With an m.s.r.p. of just under $900.00 it is a very good value.
#75
Bicycle Repair Man !!!