700c vs 29": difference?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
700c vs 29": difference?
In trying to find a local LBS that could supply me with a specific tire (pair) that I was looking for, I ran into what I believe to be a profound lack of understanding as to tire sizes.
I have a 29er bike that, in many ways, is just an MTB with larger rims. When I explained to the LBS staff and owners what I was looking for, they looked in the 29" section of their catalogs and when we didn't find them, I suggested that they look in the 700c section of the catalog at which point, (1) they questioned whether or not I had a 29er or a road bike and (2) told me that 700c tires wouldn't fit on a 29er rim. I tried to explain to them the ERTO code but all I got were blank expressions (including from the owners of the shops).
I recognize that most 29ers are built like MTB bikes for MTB-style riding so it makes sense that the 29er section of the tire catalog shows wider, knobby tire options but I have found that many popular tires are available in many widths such as the Marathon Plus, from 25-45mm and, for this reason, the LBS catalog may list the 25-32mm widths of this tire in the 700c category and the 35-45mm widths of this tire in the 29er catagory but, nevertheless, they all have the same ERTO code (at least the same 622 component of the code). The worst part of the quest was having an LBS owner tell me that the 622-47 (47mm = 1.85in) tire that I wanted would not fit on 29er rims (but they would sell them to me anyway) because the tires were listed in the 700c category of the catalog. Further compounding the situation was being told that MTB-style tires are measured in inches and 700c tires are measured in mms. I can't think of any road/touring bikes that could use 47mm wide tires and, I'm told that most hybrids top out at about 42mm (or less) so only something like a 29er would have the spacing for this width of tire.
It was frustrating trying to educate the LBS staff.
In the end, I agreed to buy the pair of tires from the LBS with the condition that they cannot be returned if they don't fit: I reluctantly agreed but I almost feel like (when they come in), offering the store a free training session whereby, for the cost (on their part) of a few minutes of their time, they are to install the tire on my front rim (at no cost to me) just so that they learn that 29er rims are the same diameter as 700c rims (not the same width but diameter). I'm not suggesting that I could use a 622-23 tire on my 29er rim, the rim might be too wide for the tire to be properly use. Alternatively, I'm not suggesting that a road bike could use a 622-54 tire because the tire dimensions would not allow it to be fit between the forks/stays/brakes of a road bike. In both cases, however, I believe that the tires could be installed on the "opposing" rims but not necessarily usable.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm right about rim size, based on the fact that I took my 54mm Kenda Small Block 8 tires off last year and replaced them with Schwalbe Marathons, 32mm (622-32 or is it 32-622) and was perfectly fine with them. However, for my needs this year, these Schwalbes are too narrow so I've gone with a wider tire, Continental Country Plus, 47mm (622-47).
I have a 29er bike that, in many ways, is just an MTB with larger rims. When I explained to the LBS staff and owners what I was looking for, they looked in the 29" section of their catalogs and when we didn't find them, I suggested that they look in the 700c section of the catalog at which point, (1) they questioned whether or not I had a 29er or a road bike and (2) told me that 700c tires wouldn't fit on a 29er rim. I tried to explain to them the ERTO code but all I got were blank expressions (including from the owners of the shops).
I recognize that most 29ers are built like MTB bikes for MTB-style riding so it makes sense that the 29er section of the tire catalog shows wider, knobby tire options but I have found that many popular tires are available in many widths such as the Marathon Plus, from 25-45mm and, for this reason, the LBS catalog may list the 25-32mm widths of this tire in the 700c category and the 35-45mm widths of this tire in the 29er catagory but, nevertheless, they all have the same ERTO code (at least the same 622 component of the code). The worst part of the quest was having an LBS owner tell me that the 622-47 (47mm = 1.85in) tire that I wanted would not fit on 29er rims (but they would sell them to me anyway) because the tires were listed in the 700c category of the catalog. Further compounding the situation was being told that MTB-style tires are measured in inches and 700c tires are measured in mms. I can't think of any road/touring bikes that could use 47mm wide tires and, I'm told that most hybrids top out at about 42mm (or less) so only something like a 29er would have the spacing for this width of tire.
It was frustrating trying to educate the LBS staff.
In the end, I agreed to buy the pair of tires from the LBS with the condition that they cannot be returned if they don't fit: I reluctantly agreed but I almost feel like (when they come in), offering the store a free training session whereby, for the cost (on their part) of a few minutes of their time, they are to install the tire on my front rim (at no cost to me) just so that they learn that 29er rims are the same diameter as 700c rims (not the same width but diameter). I'm not suggesting that I could use a 622-23 tire on my 29er rim, the rim might be too wide for the tire to be properly use. Alternatively, I'm not suggesting that a road bike could use a 622-54 tire because the tire dimensions would not allow it to be fit between the forks/stays/brakes of a road bike. In both cases, however, I believe that the tires could be installed on the "opposing" rims but not necessarily usable.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm right about rim size, based on the fact that I took my 54mm Kenda Small Block 8 tires off last year and replaced them with Schwalbe Marathons, 32mm (622-32 or is it 32-622) and was perfectly fine with them. However, for my needs this year, these Schwalbes are too narrow so I've gone with a wider tire, Continental Country Plus, 47mm (622-47).
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,851
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, 29er = 700c. They're both ISO 622.
Sounds like it's time to find a new bike shop.
Sounds like it's time to find a new bike shop.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Sounds like the LBS is definitely a bit confused. 29er and 700c are the same diameter/circumference. The only difference that will impact what tires will fit what rim is the WIDTH of the tire and WIDTH of the rim. Many road bikes have narrow rims, somewhat limiting the max width of a tire you can put on them. Similarly most 29er rims are much wider, limiting how narrow of a tire you can put on. So maybe you can't (or shouldn't) put a 23 or 28mm tire on a "29er" rim due to width of the rim, Almost any 29er rim I have seen could easily handle a 47mm, and likely a 35mm tire.
There are charts that explain what width tire can go on what width rim online...maybe you should print it out and give it to the LBS?
There are charts that explain what width tire can go on what width rim online...maybe you should print it out and give it to the LBS?
Last edited by mstraus; 07-28-14 at 11:20 AM. Reason: fix typo
#5
Banned
ISO is written as 23-622.
That's also 700c (French/US/UK), 29er/29" (US/UK) and 28er/28-Zoll (German) if you are travelling!
That's also 700c (French/US/UK), 29er/29" (US/UK) and 28er/28-Zoll (German) if you are travelling!
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Sounds like the LBS is definitely a bit confused. 29er and 700c are the same diameter/circumference. The only difference that will impact what tires will fit what rim is the WIDTH of the tire and WIDTH of the rim. Many road bikes have narrow rims, somewhat limiting the max width of a tire you can put on them. Similarly most 29er rims are much wider, limiting how narrow of a tire you can put on. So maybe you can't (or shouldn't) put a 23 or 28mm tire on a "29er" rim due to width of the rim, Almost any 29er rim I have seen could easily handle a 47mm, and likely a 35mm tire.
There are charts that explain what width tire can go on what width rim online...maybe you should print it out and give it to the LBS?
There are charts that explain what width tire can go on what width rim online...maybe you should print it out and give it to the LBS?
Thanks all.
#9
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,972
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,535 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Schwalbe Marathons are marked with both designations
#10
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,972
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,535 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Thanks @acidfast7, the 28er explains why Schwalbe sometimes identifies some 29er tires as (for example) 28"x1.9".
I wonder, is 29" in the US equal to 28" in Germany? If so, is it because of different languages or time zones?
I wonder, is 29" in the US equal to 28" in Germany? If so, is it because of different languages or time zones?
The 29'' designation is just a marketing gimmick trying to create a new market for bikes with fatter tires.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 167
Bikes: Scott Spark 30, Scott Sportster 10,Chesini X-Uno, Miyata Century, Cannondale SuperSix
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Schwalbe Marathon tire on Crank Brothers Cobalt wheel.
--
Ragnar
--
Ragnar
#12
Banned
the rim for a 622-23 tire would be different than if for a 622-60 tire , but thats width, not Bead-seat-diameter (that is what the 622 measures.)
#13
Banned
Thanks @acidfast7, the 28er explains why Schwalbe sometimes identifies some 29er tires as (for example) 28"x1.9".
I wonder, is 29" in the US equal to 28" in Germany? If so, is it because of different languages or time zones?
I wonder, is 29" in the US equal to 28" in Germany? If so, is it because of different languages or time zones?
In the US market, 29er came from MTB tires, which is roughly 29 inches with a knobby tire.
In the German market, 28er came from trekkingfahrdäder (trekking bikes, kinda like an easy trail version of a US touring bike ... think a US "road" bike with mostly road components plus a trekking/MTB triple up front and flat bars). In this case, there was only a need for international "inches" and this was without the knobbies and called 28er/28-Zoll.
#14
Senior Member
I have 48's on my Disc Trucker right now.
I have a custom wheel set though.
PH Tandem disc hub with Velocity chukker rim (some have described this are a 29' er rim.)
I think one possible distinction of 700c vs. 29'er is the width of the rim itself.
I have a custom wheel set though.
PH Tandem disc hub with Velocity chukker rim (some have described this are a 29' er rim.)
I think one possible distinction of 700c vs. 29'er is the width of the rim itself.
#15
Senior Member
29er is just another meaningless marketing gimmick which has nor real relevance. Like the terms 700c, 650b, 26er and 28", it has nothing to do with the real tire or the rim. I wish the industry would stop, but a catchy phrase is an easier upcharge, put drop bars and brifters on a hybrid trail bike to sell it as a cyclocross racing bike.
Marc
Marc
#16
Senior Member
Refer them to Sheldon Brown for a free education. Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information
#17
DancesWithSUVs
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Griffin Cycle Bethesda,MD
Posts: 6,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I do agree they're getting a bit silly in marketing odd sizes like 650 to recreational riders,but the pros do have their preferences.
__________________
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,031
Bikes: 2015 Giant Roam 2 Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
You're both wrong. Originally,'29er' was the term used to differentiate very wide 700c MTB tires(2"+). The intent was to make MTB's with larger diameter wheels so they would roll over obstacles easier than bikes with smaller 26" wheels. The term was later watered down by companies using it as a buzz word to describe bikes with wide(38mm+) tires.
.
.
I also have a bike I ride today that has 700c wheel that has 40mm tires on it, so your second point has no merit either. There are skinnier tires designated 29" and fatter tires designated 700c, there is overlap in the sizes and widths.
#19
Senior Member
My point is the 29er tires are actually 622-54. It would be nice and less confusing to use the actual tire size than the marketing nicknames and archaic designation.
Marc
Marc
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I like the idea of 650 (also marketed as 27.5") wheels for small (generally) women so as to keep the frame proportions good but generally, I don't see the need. But then, for men who are very tall, should there be a 750?
#21
Banned
#23
Senior Member
#24
ouate de phoque
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: La Prairie, Qc, Canada
Posts: 1,781
Bikes: Bianchi, Nakamura,Opus
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#25
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times
in
2,517 Posts
a lot of 29'er mtb tires will actually run ok on a 19mm rim even though it's not recommended -- used to be fairly common, now less so. And rather obviously, you can use road tires on 29'er rims. I am running 700c x 38mm Marathon cross tires on my 29'er wheels, not sure what the actual designation of the rims is, but they are wide