Oh, Crap! I'm THAT GUY Who Could've Killed A Cyclist!
10-02-14, 07:31 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Oh, Crap! I'm THAT GUY Who Could've Killed A Cyclist!
I've written before about a tricky intersection along my commute that involves a crossover of the "through" bike lane and the right turn lane for automobiles. The picture below is a rough illustration of how it works:
Note that the little white arrow in the upper right corner denotes a right turn lane for cars.
When I ride this bike lane and approach the crossover, I'm usually confident that all the drivers know I'm there. So far, there has never been a problem. But this morning, as I was driving along this same road, totally un-distracted but perhaps slightly visually impaired by the gloomy weather, I suddenly found myself crossing the bike lane without even a glance to see if there was a cyclist there. In other words, I was the a-hole driver who wasn't paying attention and could have ended someone's life.
OK, so had I seen a cyclist in the bike lane before I reached the crossover, I might have been more conscious and cautious, but what comes to mind is how unpredictable a driver with no cycling background and, perhaps, a cell phone in his/her face can be when approaching a critical interchange such as this one. Damn! If I (an experienced driver AND cyclist) could zone out like that for a few seconds, imagine how little 95% of the drivers on this road can be trusted.
PS: There was no cyclist in the lane that morning.
Note that the little white arrow in the upper right corner denotes a right turn lane for cars.
When I ride this bike lane and approach the crossover, I'm usually confident that all the drivers know I'm there. So far, there has never been a problem. But this morning, as I was driving along this same road, totally un-distracted but perhaps slightly visually impaired by the gloomy weather, I suddenly found myself crossing the bike lane without even a glance to see if there was a cyclist there. In other words, I was the a-hole driver who wasn't paying attention and could have ended someone's life.
OK, so had I seen a cyclist in the bike lane before I reached the crossover, I might have been more conscious and cautious, but what comes to mind is how unpredictable a driver with no cycling background and, perhaps, a cell phone in his/her face can be when approaching a critical interchange such as this one. Damn! If I (an experienced driver AND cyclist) could zone out like that for a few seconds, imagine how little 95% of the drivers on this road can be trusted.
PS: There was no cyclist in the lane that morning.
Last edited by Papa Tom; 10-03-14 at 04:41 AM.
10-02-14, 07:54 PM
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You evil bastard you! No seriously learn your lesson and move on. Hopefully the cyclist knew enough to or learned to not assume cars are going to check for him.
10-02-14, 08:03 PM
#3
contiuniously variable
I'd make at least 2 calls to local municipality about fixing this dangerous layout.
- Andy
- Andy
10-02-14, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TransitBiker
I'd make at least 2 calls to local municipality about fixing this dangerous layout.
- Andy
- Andy
The fact is that right lane bicyclists and cars to their left have to cross if the car is making a right turn and the bike want's to go straight.
This is a standard maneuver, whether the road is painted or not.
of course they could build a crossover ramp and overpass, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
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10-02-14, 08:23 PM
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I always try to take the lane early in these situations.
10-03-14, 12:56 AM
#6
contiuniously variable
Originally Posted by FBinNY
Any suggestions how?.
The fact is that right lane bicyclists and cars to their left have to cross if the car is making a right turn and the bike want's to go straight.
This is a standard maneuver, whether the road is painted or not.
of course they could build a crossover ramp and overpass, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
The fact is that right lane bicyclists and cars to their left have to cross if the car is making a right turn and the bike want's to go straight.
This is a standard maneuver, whether the road is painted or not.
of course they could build a crossover ramp and overpass, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
- Andy
10-03-14, 01:08 AM
#7
Senior Member
Couple weeks ago nearly killed a women myself.
She was riding salmon on her extreme left coming down a hill, maybe doing 18, no helmet, but full new bike grin.
I rounded the corner. Had to pinch it close as there was an oncoming car in right as far left as their lane permitted.
She was invisible behind some brush that sticks out into the road until she was just there... Feet from my hood. I had slowed to 1/2 speed limit so I hit brakes really hard and cold sweat poured off me. She rolled by my passenger door before I could think to say something to her... She had maybe a foot of road on that side of the car. Still grinning...
As to the car pinching the over... They were following obviously her...
I had my bicycle on the rack on my car. And really needed that beer when I got to my destination. I had very nearly killed someone. most people hit that corner at 50% over the speed limit. I was had only slowed as much as I did because I was in a good mood and it was a beautiful day and I was early. If I had been adjusting radio, going a bit faster, late, tired, or even attending to the car taking most of the road and my biggest threat... She would have been squashed.
The only reason I stopped was a glint off her handlebars, I hadn't seen her... just a damn little glint.
She was riding salmon on her extreme left coming down a hill, maybe doing 18, no helmet, but full new bike grin.
I rounded the corner. Had to pinch it close as there was an oncoming car in right as far left as their lane permitted.
She was invisible behind some brush that sticks out into the road until she was just there... Feet from my hood. I had slowed to 1/2 speed limit so I hit brakes really hard and cold sweat poured off me. She rolled by my passenger door before I could think to say something to her... She had maybe a foot of road on that side of the car. Still grinning...
As to the car pinching the over... They were following obviously her...
I had my bicycle on the rack on my car. And really needed that beer when I got to my destination. I had very nearly killed someone. most people hit that corner at 50% over the speed limit. I was had only slowed as much as I did because I was in a good mood and it was a beautiful day and I was early. If I had been adjusting radio, going a bit faster, late, tired, or even attending to the car taking most of the road and my biggest threat... She would have been squashed.
The only reason I stopped was a glint off her handlebars, I hadn't seen her... just a damn little glint.
10-03-14, 03:21 AM
#8
Banned
Pretty common intersection. Not an uncommon design. All people just need to pay attention.
See 0:55
See 0:55
10-03-14, 05:50 AM
#9
Senior Member
The way I see it is, bicycle is switching lanes. It is up to the bicyclist to check for traffic and move over when able to, same as if you were wanting to change lanes in a car with other car traffic, or coming onto the roadway from an on-ramp. You don't just fly into another lane into other traffic without yielding to the traffic in that other lane. Obviously it's good to be aware, but it is not the responsibility of the person traveling in his lane to yield to others entering his lane. The responsibility lies with the person moving over into the other lane no matter what the vehicle.
10-03-14, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Null66
Couple weeks ago nearly killed a women myself.
She was riding salmon on her extreme left coming down a hill, maybe doing 18, no helmet, but full new bike grin.
I rounded the corner. Had to pinch it close as there was an oncoming car in right as far left as their lane permitted.
She was invisible behind some brush that sticks out into the road until she was just there... Feet from my hood. I had slowed to 1/2 speed limit so I hit brakes really hard and cold sweat poured off me. She rolled by my passenger door before I could think to say something to her... She had maybe a foot of road on that side of the car. Still grinning...
As to the car pinching the over... They were following obviously her...
I had my bicycle on the rack on my car. And really needed that beer when I got to my destination. I had very nearly killed someone. most people hit that corner at 50% over the speed limit. I was had only slowed as much as I did because I was in a good mood and it was a beautiful day and I was early. If I had been adjusting radio, going a bit faster, late, tired, or even attending to the car taking most of the road and my biggest threat... She would have been squashed.
The only reason I stopped was a glint off her handlebars, I hadn't seen her... just a damn little glint.
She was riding salmon on her extreme left coming down a hill, maybe doing 18, no helmet, but full new bike grin.
I rounded the corner. Had to pinch it close as there was an oncoming car in right as far left as their lane permitted.
She was invisible behind some brush that sticks out into the road until she was just there... Feet from my hood. I had slowed to 1/2 speed limit so I hit brakes really hard and cold sweat poured off me. She rolled by my passenger door before I could think to say something to her... She had maybe a foot of road on that side of the car. Still grinning...
As to the car pinching the over... They were following obviously her...
I had my bicycle on the rack on my car. And really needed that beer when I got to my destination. I had very nearly killed someone. most people hit that corner at 50% over the speed limit. I was had only slowed as much as I did because I was in a good mood and it was a beautiful day and I was early. If I had been adjusting radio, going a bit faster, late, tired, or even attending to the car taking most of the road and my biggest threat... She would have been squashed.
The only reason I stopped was a glint off her handlebars, I hadn't seen her... just a damn little glint.
And in case any of you don't know what that is, it is taken from BikeSnobNYC
"The Beautiful Godzilla is a particular kind of urban female cyclist who rides as though the rest of the world were created simply to yield to her. She's generally young, good-looking and clad in expensive clothes. She also rides an old three-speed or perhaps a 10-speed or Dutch city bike, carries her handbag on the edge of her handlebars and if she has a basket it usually contains a small dog or perhaps a baguette. She's on her mobile phone at all times and her approach to cycling in a densely populated city is a combination of self-entitlement and Mr Magoo-type dumb luck. Like any self-entitled person, she can't imagine a car would possibly hit her, even if she's riding against traffic and it's coming right at her. Actually, you sort of find yourself disappointed when it doesn't. And just like Mr Magoo would wander into a construction site and a girder would materialise right as he was about to walk off the scaffolding, the Beautiful Godzilla blithely rides through red lights and busy intersections, emerging on the other side unscathed and just as photogenic as she was when she entered it.Why other cyclists don't like them: They should be dead but aren't."
10-03-14, 06:30 AM
#11
apocryphal sobriquet
Originally Posted by bmthom.gis
Ah, you encountered a non-urban Beautiful Godzilla
And in case any of you don't know what that is, it is taken from BikeSnobNYC
"The Beautiful Godzilla is a particular kind of urban female cyclist who rides as though the rest of the world were created simply to yield to her. She's generally young, good-looking and clad in expensive clothes. She also rides an old three-speed or perhaps a 10-speed or Dutch city bike, carries her handbag on the edge of her handlebars and if she has a basket it usually contains a small dog or perhaps a baguette. She's on her mobile phone at all times and her approach to cycling in a densely populated city is a combination of self-entitlement and Mr Magoo-type dumb luck. Like any self-entitled person, she can't imagine a car would possibly hit her, even if she's riding against traffic and it's coming right at her. Actually, you sort of find yourself disappointed when it doesn't. And just like Mr Magoo would wander into a construction site and a girder would materialise right as he was about to walk off the scaffolding, the Beautiful Godzilla blithely rides through red lights and busy intersections, emerging on the other side unscathed and just as photogenic as she was when she entered it.Why other cyclists don't like them: They should be dead but aren't."
And in case any of you don't know what that is, it is taken from BikeSnobNYC
"The Beautiful Godzilla is a particular kind of urban female cyclist who rides as though the rest of the world were created simply to yield to her. She's generally young, good-looking and clad in expensive clothes. She also rides an old three-speed or perhaps a 10-speed or Dutch city bike, carries her handbag on the edge of her handlebars and if she has a basket it usually contains a small dog or perhaps a baguette. She's on her mobile phone at all times and her approach to cycling in a densely populated city is a combination of self-entitlement and Mr Magoo-type dumb luck. Like any self-entitled person, she can't imagine a car would possibly hit her, even if she's riding against traffic and it's coming right at her. Actually, you sort of find yourself disappointed when it doesn't. And just like Mr Magoo would wander into a construction site and a girder would materialise right as he was about to walk off the scaffolding, the Beautiful Godzilla blithely rides through red lights and busy intersections, emerging on the other side unscathed and just as photogenic as she was when she entered it.Why other cyclists don't like them: They should be dead but aren't."
That's almost too perfect a description
10-03-14, 06:58 AM
#12
Senior Member
Originally Posted by mrodgers
The way I see it is, bicycle is switching lanes. It is up to the bicyclist to check for traffic and move over when able to, same as if you were wanting to change lanes in a car with other car traffic, or coming onto the roadway from an on-ramp. You don't just fly into another lane into other traffic without yielding to the traffic in that other lane. Obviously it's good to be aware, but it is not the responsibility of the person traveling in his lane to yield to others entering his lane. The responsibility lies with the person moving over into the other lane no matter what the vehicle.
10-03-14, 07:10 AM
#13
Senior Member
Originally Posted by mrodgers
The way I see it is, bicycle is switching lanes. It is up to the bicyclist to check for traffic and move over when able to, same as if you were wanting to change lanes in a car with other car traffic, or coming onto the roadway from an on-ramp. You don't just fly into another lane into other traffic without yielding to the traffic in that other lane. Obviously it's good to be aware, but it is not the responsibility of the person traveling in his lane to yield to others entering his lane. The responsibility lies with the person moving over into the other lane no matter what the vehicle.
10-03-14, 08:19 AM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
From the OP: It's interesting how we change our perspective when WE are the ones in the "steel cages." Thanks for your support, everyone, but I still think that I, as the driver, should bear at least as much responsibility for a safe crossover as the bicyclist does. It's not us or them.
10-03-14, 09:13 AM
#15
Senior Member
Originally Posted by J.C. Koto
That's almost too perfect a descriptionWasn't stylish, but yeah...
Fits all too well, even had a basket.
Originally Posted by Papa Tom
From the OP: It's interesting how we change our perspective when WE are the ones in the "steel cages." Thanks for your support, everyone, but I still think that I, as the driver, should bear at least as much responsibility for a safe crossover as the bicyclist does. It's not us or them.
10-03-14, 09:16 AM
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I have two of those situations on my commute. In my part of the world, cars have to yield to bikes in bike lanes when they must cross bike lanes. It's always a tense experience, especially when cars are gunning it to get ahead of me and turn right before I'm there. The great drivers slow down a bit, keep traffic behind them for the 4-5 seconds it takes me to get past that right turn.
10-03-14, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom
PS: There was no cyclist in the lane that morning.
So, you just started a meaningless thread because you're bored or something?
10-03-14, 11:16 AM
#18
Senior Member
I treat paint on the road as a guideline only. Certainly won't keep me from getting run over. Could make things safer or less safe, depending on whether the car sees and understands the markings, which is questionable at best.
10-03-14, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by canuckjgc
I have two of those situations on my commute. In my part of the world, cars have to yield to bikes in bike lanes when they must cross bike lanes. It's always a tense experience, especially when cars are gunning it to get ahead of me and turn right before I'm there. The great drivers slow down a bit, keep traffic behind them for the 4-5 seconds it takes me to get past that right turn.
Had there been a cyclist you would have been more vigilant. Thus the situation was a non-issue.
Like if I had diarrhea right now and someone was in the bathroom I would crap my pants. But I don't have diarrhea and no one is in the bathroom.
As I see the situation the car still should yield they are changing lanes. The cyclist is staying in their lane just under going a lane shift.
Last edited by joeyduck; 10-03-14 at 11:47 AM.
10-03-14, 11:28 AM
#20
Senior Member
A short while back another poster asked whether he (maybe it was she) should be paranoid while on the roads. I didn't reply to that thread, but I do maintain a "healthy paranoia." This thread shows how potentially easy it is for even careful drivers to hit a cyclist. As a driver I do my best to stay ever vigilant; as a cyclist I do my best to keep that paranoia.
Car vs bicycle, car will win.
Car vs bicycle, car will win.
10-03-14, 11:45 AM
#21
Senior Member
Originally Posted by mrodgers
The way I see it is, bicycle is switching lanes.
Originally Posted by Papa Tom
From the OP: It's interesting how we change our perspective when WE are the ones in the "steel cages."
Originally Posted by alan s
I treat paint on the road as a guideline only.
I had a close call in a similar setting where a bus nearly pinched me to the curb.
Last edited by vol; 10-03-14 at 11:49 AM.
10-03-14, 11:45 AM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
>>>>Had there been a cyclist you would have been more vigilant.<<<
I think I would have, but I'm not 100% sure...and anything short of 100% can be deadly. This was just an eye-opener, that's all.
I think I would have, but I'm not 100% sure...and anything short of 100% can be deadly. This was just an eye-opener, that's all.
10-03-14, 11:54 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom
>>>>Had there been a cyclist you would have been more vigilant.<<<
I think I would have, but I'm not 100% sure...and anything short of 100% can be deadly. This was just an eye-opener, that's all.
I think I would have, but I'm not 100% sure...and anything short of 100% can be deadly. This was just an eye-opener, that's all.
10-03-14, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by vol
In the OP's diagram: from the point of view of the driver, the bike is changing lane, moving into the driver's lane, whereas from the point of view of the cyclist, he's been staying in the same (bike) lane. The lesson: don't just trustily follow the marked bike lane without assessing the surrounding at tricky parts of the road.
I had a close call in a similar setting where a bus nearly pinched me to the curb.
I had a close call in a similar setting where a bus nearly pinched me to the curb.
My sticking to bike lanes looks like a three year old coloring. I am all over the place for my safety and avoidance and wise usage.
10-03-14, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by canuckjgc
I have two of those situations on my commute. In my part of the world, cars have to yield to bikes in bike lanes when they must cross bike lanes. ....
It's fine to say the bike lane has the right of way, but it flies in the face of common sense, and bicyclists operating under the illusion that some paint on a road will protect them may be in for a rude surprise.
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“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
