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Originally Posted by jrickards
(Post 17253470)
What some of us are comfortable with (treating stop signs as yield signs, treating red lights as stop signs) are (1) technically against the law and (2) raise the ire of motorists who then have further reason to "hate" us. I am more concerned about (2) than (1) because I see the police less frequently than I do "normal" motorists.
What I don't understand is the ire directed at those who prefer to obey the law if that's what they're comfortable with. Why does that matter to those of us who choose to do otherwise? |
Originally Posted by alan s
(Post 17253874)
I'm in favor of maintaining the status quo (police looking the other way, generally) or a law that would require bikes to stop at stop signs only if there is a car or ped at the intersection. Even with such a law, behavior would probably not change at all, but at least there would be less to complain about.
H |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 17254021)
A law telling me that I should care is one that I would break multiple times a day.
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Originally Posted by alan s
(Post 17254122)
All laws require you to act with care under the circumstances. Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you can abandon all reasonable care. Regardless of how you look.
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Originally Posted by jrickards
(Post 17252700)
A friend and I were talking about biking to work and I was telling him (as much as I knew/understood) about the "Idaho stop" law, he was intrigued. He suggested that perhaps we could approach our city about trying to enact something similar by modifying stop signs in residential neighbourhoods ...
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Originally Posted by degnaw
(Post 17253477)
In Europe, almost every intersection without a traffic light or roundabout uses yield signs (applying to both cars and bikes). If an intersection is safe to roll through, why not apply the rule to everybody? common sense applies. |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 17253877)
A cyclist friend of mine was stopped and given a warning for making a "wide left turn". IOW he made his left into the right hand lane of the new road. Like nearly every cyclist on the planet does because who the hell wants to be in the left hand lane of a busy road with no way to get over to the right! That is courting death because you are going to infuriate every driver behind you and they are NOT going to let you get over. The driver behind you in the left lane will be on your bumper blasting the horn, flashing his lights. And you should do this every time you make a left turn into a two lane? Yes, that's what cars have to do and you are a car, don't you know. So... Andy... tell me. Do you make your left turns like that? If not, why not? And if you use common sense and good judgement in that part of your roadcraft why not with stop signals as well?
Why should there be any more enforcement of stop signs than there is? So you can feel vindicated? It isn't about you. You have your lapses of protocol, it just doesn't happen to be stop signs. Goody for you. Live and let live. Hm... "more" enforcement? I think you fail to grasp the epedemic of people rolling through 3 and 4 way stop signs. Often these people are on the phone etc. I've been hit by people failing to stop or yield & had to jam on the brakes or swerve. I've also seen numerous crash scenes where someone didnt stop or yeild. Uh "not about me"? Oh, so just run me over & any other bike on the road because BRUM BRUM BRUM i can sit in a chair and tap levers with my feet!!!!? There are no streets where one lane turns into two when you turn left anywhere ive been. All the left turn lanes turn into a corresponding lane...... any intersection not laid out this way is a death trap & needs to be changed. So, i dunno what you're on about. "I have my lapses of protocol"? No, i do not. I really don't know what youre trying to say with all that commentary, but it comes off as hostile and misdirected. - Andy |
I look both ways at every intersection, stop sign or not. If I see a car, I make sure I don't get hit, regardless of right away. If I don't see a car, I cruise on through. I'm happy with this system.
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Originally Posted by degnaw
(Post 17253477)
In Europe, almost every intersection without a traffic light or roundabout uses yield signs (applying to both cars and bikes). If an intersection is safe to roll through, why not apply the rule to everybody?
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In NYC a stop sign is a stop sign. It doesn't matter if your on a bike, motorcycle, or in your car. I occasionally treat them more like a "slow down, assess, and decide" instead. I am possibly eligible for a ticket. If there's no cross traffic or pedestrians I'm OK. If I DON'T stop for the pedestrians I'm 99% certain to get a ticket if seen by a police officer. I always stop for people on foot,...or cross traffic that has the right of way.
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Many of the stop signs, particularly in residential neighborhoods and other surface streets, are primarily for traffic calming. More specifically, reducing the speeds of motor vehicles. It's not for safety at the intersections, and not for traffic efficiency, but to prevent drivers from unsafe speeds on these roads.
If anyone's there, pedestrian or vehicle, they'll be expecting traffic to stop and they'll behave accordingly. But other than that, although I'm no fan of casual disregard of the law I can see no reason, no benefit to anyone, of forcing ourselves to come to a complete stop on our bikes when no one's there. |
Originally Posted by kickstart
(Post 17253940)
What I don't understand is the ire directed at those who prefer to obey the law if that's what they're comfortable with.
I think you are projecting. When I run signalled intersections where there are other cyclists waiting, my response is, at most, a Gallic shrug of the shoulders... |
Originally Posted by Riveting
(Post 17256433)
I'll admit that I Idaho Stop both on my bike and in my car
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
(Post 17257195)
Once a car slows down below 10 mph it become an almost entirely non-lethal vehicle (just like a bicycle).
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
(Post 17257189)
I think you are projecting. When I run signalled intersections where there are other cyclists waiting, my response is, at most, a Gallic shrug of the shoulders...
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Originally Posted by gdhillard
(Post 17256239)
I look both ways at every intersection, stop sign or not. If I see a car, I make sure I don't get hit, regardless of right away. If I don't see a car, I cruise on through. I'm happy with this system.
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Originally Posted by takenreasy
(Post 17282846)
This is my philosophy in residential areas, as well. I was pulled over by a donut muncher on a pouring down rain bike to work day for “yielding” at a stop sign. I tried to reason with this guy, while he was sitting in his dry unmarked cruiser, that I’m not out to get killed nor endanger others which there were none of. He wasn’t buying it so I just sat in the rain nodding to all of his “you are the same as any other vehicle” spiel. To each their own but in a neighborhood intersection with literally no one else around, I will slow instead of stop at a stop sign.
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[QUOTE=Leisesturm;17253877]A cyclist friend of mine was stopped and given a warning for making a "wide left turn". IOW he made his left into the right hand lane of the new road. /QUOTE]
That is one ******* cop who needs to find a new hobby. I don't see any need to change signs or change laws. Don't get hit by a car, regardless of what the local traffic regulations might state is my daily goal. |
To me red = stop.
- Andy |
I am in favor of the Idaho Stop and I sometimes practice it, especially on right turns. I also recognize that it is an infraction and am liable to be ticketed and fined. I also recognize that it would be politically improbable that the Legislature will make the Idaho Stop legal in California.
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Originally Posted by corrado33
(Post 17252899)
This change will simply allow bikers to run stop signs whenever they want. You cannot have ambiguity in a law such as this. When is it "safe" to yield?
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Originally Posted by TransitBiker
(Post 17284899)
To me red = stop.
- Andy |
I stop at stop signs when I have to (car or another bike approaching that has right of way) otherwise I yield.
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