joeyduck

I live in the rainy metropolis of Vancouver British Columbia Canada.

This is my first winter I am thinking of biking through December and January. I usually stop from late November until mid early February.

I used to stop due to the almost 50 km round trip on some far sketchy roads. Now I have a 12 km trip on nice roads.

I have my wife onboard if I get studded tires.

My concern is of course black ice and the large hill I go up and down.

My lbs can get schwalbe winter marathons with either 120 or 240 studs. I figure the marathons are good since we experience minimal to no snow. I think the 240 stud tires are overkill for my needs.

From the seasoned PNW riders is it worthwhile to get studded tires? If so do you think the 120 studded marathon winter tires will be fine?

Ideas? Suggestions? Personal experience in the geographic region?

mcours2006

I guess you have to ask yourself how many days of the year do you think you'll get ice/snow. I live in the Toronto area, so I'm pretty sure I'll make use of the studded tires, which I just installed. I do, however, plan to use my other bike(s) when the weather is dry. The studded tires make a horrible buzzing noise on dry tarmac. And if the roads get too difficult to ride I might just drive.

If you forgo the studs do you have other commuting options?

I think the 120 studs are fine for your needs. Unless you plan to take corners at full speed I don't think those auxiliary studs on the side are really necessary.

joeyduck

I figure with the carbide studs I can leave then on until mid February. But I can also change them accordingly and as needed.

I have the car or bus option. But if I would not ride my bike due to weather/road conditions, I certainly wouldn't want to drive due to our road conditions and poor drivers.

mcours2006

What about a second wheelset? I've been looking for a second set of wheels for wet roads only. But it's not easy to find a 6-speed hybrid with 130mm OLD.

Good point.

Mr. Hairy Legs

I wouldn't bother. We'll be back to balmy weather by Thursday or Friday, and you'll just have to switch back.

woodway

I live in Seattle, not Vancouver and have never felt the need for studded tires. If I think there will be black ice, I drive. It does not happen often.

gregf83 

I concur with not bothering. I ride a little over 60km round trip and most of the ride today was on bare roads. The only problem was Alex Fraser bridge where there was about 2" of snow on the sidewalk with the occasional section of glare ice. I walked the icy sections and am not sure I'd trust studded tires on the ice.

My skinny, slick 23mm tires had surprisingly good traction going up the bridge. There aren't many days of the year where studded tires would be necessary in a typical Vancouver winter. If it's too icy I just drive and remind myself why I prefer biking.

joeyduck

I agree with you guys on the minimal days which they would be needed. This is my piece d' resistance. Since I am frugal I am not sure if its justification is worthwhile.

But biking just makes me so happy. Driving in Vancouver just makes me so unhappy. Transit is just...

My biggest worry is cresting the ridge in Vancouver proper and descending south on Cambie or adjacent streets. There are a lot of shady and cold pockets and walking that could account for a large time commitment. If it is cold and snowy/icy and with studs I can more safely take Heather or Ontario and avoid potential driver mayhem on Cambie.

As @HydroG33r mentioned his wife wouldn't let him ride for fear of black ice along the ridge from NW into Van, I think that is a sensible decision from experience. I have been in the same situation and I am facing it again. I have been working this eventuality for months and a thankfully much shorter commute than from N Burnaby with better route choices is helping. If the weather and wife win I fear it will be weeks before I can get back regularly cycling (if it was up to her I wouldn't bike from Nov to Mar); I have convinced her studs will be fine and I will be safe. I also justified it to her by using the time and happiness factors. An hour a day cycling that keeps me happy. Versus 2 hours a day where I am miserable, for the potential of weeks.

@gregf83 Having grown up in snowy areas I trust car studs on ice. I see no reason to not trust bike studs. Of course I am well aware they do not make one invincible but able to cycle with caution. And riding is better than walking.

@mcours2006 I have toyed with extra wheels but I can not justify it. I do have a second wheelset but I would need to do a brake adjustment every change since they are different width and they were decommisioned due to starting to wear thin. I would prefer tire changes.

I am still on the fence, but you can all gather I am leaning towards the winter tires. Then I will at least have the option to not stop riding.

HydroG33r 

I went through the same thought process as you last fall, and again this year... I love my toys and accessories, so it's not that holding me back... I just haven't wrapped my head around whether studded tires will make enough of a difference for the couple weeks a year when it's just too potentially icy to ride. For what I'd spend on studded tires and probably new wheels, I'd be just as well off renting a second car for those two to three weeks a year. I don't mind driving; HATE public transit in this city. Translink is clueless.

mcours2006

If it were me, and knowing what I know about the climate in the west coast I would forgo the winter studs. I would, instead, get a decent set of wet weather tires.

Perhaps something like this:
Continental Grand Prix 4 Season Vectran Bike Tyre | Chain Reaction Cycles

I couldn't justify tolerating the studded tires for the whole season just for the one or two days when I might actually need them.

Here in Southern Ontario, I would expect that at least once or twice a week for the next four months I might have to deal with snow, slush, or ice, I could justify getting them.

jrickards

Until now, you've been taking your son on your bike. I personally would feel less upset if you had a fall while on your bike than if your son had a fall while on your bike. If you're interested in continuing to ride your son to/from school/daycare, I would recommend studded for the winter, careful riding and taking the car/bus when you feel the conditions are remotely sketchy.

However, if it were just you, hah, just go with slicks all year round!!!

tjspiel

If you're talking about the kind of ice you might get if the roads are damp and it freezes overnight, then I wouldn't bother.

Under those conditions I might encounter patches of ice that are a foot or so in diameter where there are low spots in the roads. It's not that it's impossible to slip on something like that but usually all that happens is my real wheel will loose a little traction while accelerating, - this is on a road bike.

I generally put off mounting studs on my bike as long as I can. Often it is December before we get our first real snow and that's when the studs go on. There are plenty of nights below freezing before then where we'll get some small patches of ice on the roads. To me it's not worth it for that and I've already made the investment in studded tires.

On the other hand, the safest choice is the studs and if it gives you and your wife piece of mind then they might be worth it just for that. You may find after a year that they really weren't necessary and at that point you can always sell them. You'll take a bit of a loss but probably won't have too hard of a time selling them because new ones are so expensive.

tjspiel

I guess I missed that part. Even with studs I don't know that I'd ride with a kid on a regular bike if there were any ice at all. Not only are you putting your kid at more risk, you're raising the center of gravity making a skid harder to recover from and a fall more likely.

Time for a trailer or at least a bakfiets.

fietsbob

Im In Astoria , Here we get off shore east winds Bringing out the Cold air Masses usually behind the Cascades via the Columbia river Gorge.

PDX 150 miles upstream Inland gets snow sometimes that we on the Coast skip , but we do get temperatures in the 20's. overnight.

often its under clear skies like this week, and has been Dry when that happens, BUT if a spring causes runoff across the road It will be Icy slick Occasionally ..Surprise !


I now just have a Old MTB set up with studded tires , Parked Until I need it, But Great! when I Do . Nokian 160 stud , now in 22nd season..


Yea ID put children in the bike trailer where you can keep them Warm Inside It, plenty of space for Blankets and such.
You out on the bike are working, and the pedal effort heats you more than someone sitting still moving thru the air ..

Leebo

N+1, just get another bike set up with studded tires. Continental also makes a non studded winter tire, worth looking into.

joeyduck

Since the time change I have not been allowed to pick up my son. I actually drove today since I had to do drop off and pick up and I don't want to risk it with him.

We have been considering a trailer since he has reached a weight which is getting uncomfortable to ride with him in the back.

I did wreck with his seat on the other day, he was not in it. I looked it over thoroughly and it only received one new scrape no worse then leaning it against a concrete wall. Otherwise it looks and feels fine. I don't know if it was design or me protecting i the set when I went down.

tjspiel

If it's one of those rack mounted child seats then usually they are protected pretty well. It could still be a little traumatic for him (or he might like it) but you don't want their little brains sloshing around from unexpected jolts.

My wife would ride with the kids occasionally in a seat like that. I never liked it much. We got far more use out of the trailer. I think we paid more for ours than we have ever spent on a bike, but have never regretted it. It was well worth it.

joeyduck

Knowing my son he would love it. But I would not wish that on him.

Hamax

It has been great and we have used it since he was about eight months old. He is just over four now. We are toying with the trailer or a trail gator. His daycare is too far for him to bike in his own, but his kindergarten should be close next year so he can easily bike there. We also have to figure out what works be best with two.

rumrunn6

loved mine, get the 240

tjspiel

Our kids are 4 years apart so there was only a limited amount of time we could fit them both in the trailer comfortably. Frankly I don't think either of them rode in it much once they were old enough to use a tag-along. My wife worked nights when they were young though so we never really had to transport them to daycare after my son was about 2 so our situation was different.

Archwhorides 

I just installed the 45 Nrth Xerxes studded, first day commuting with them. It an interesting design, with studs on the shoulders of the tread, and a running ridge in the center.

You can pump up the tires to 75 psi and run the tires on the ridges, with little contact between the studs and the road, or lower the pressure so that the ridge can recess somewhat to let the studs take care of business. I'm looking forward to seeing how the concept works for me. Today I had a quiet commute on dry streets, tonight will be spicier.

El Cid

I live right next door in Waterloo and I only hit ice once the whole season last winter. The city does a pretty good job on clearing the roads in winter. There was plenty of snow, but I never wished I had studs.

PaulRivers

tjspiel mentioned the 45nrth had what sounded like good studded tires out now.

I haven't used it myself, but the Xerces you mention looks like the perfect tire for the OP:
45NRTH

Just raise or lower tires pressure to give the studs more or less contact with the ground...sounds pretty awesome.

I ride with the Schwalbe Marathon Winter's on my winter bike. I live in Minnesota. They're great tires - I aim for icy patches because I get better grip on ice than snow. Also can change stud contact with tire inflation - at 60psi only the middle row contacts the ground, at 20psi both rows of studs contact the ground. Side studs work either way for uneven icy ground of if you would start to slip to the side somehow.

When I moved back to Minneapolis, in the fall I was on a last ride of the season and they started talking about winter riding. This was before good studded tires. Everyone had done it, seemed confident about it...everyone had broken something major at some point.

I will not ride in the winter when there's any chance of ice without studs. It's simply never, ever worth the risk for me. I mean 1 visit to the doctor is $200 right there, and that's more than a pair of tires cost. Now - not everyone does get injured, but - just not worth the risk for me. My uncle broke his hip riding and crashing this summer, and it was huge medical bills, godawful pain, etc. Nothing is risk free, but I don't see making my commute 5-10 minutes faster and saving $200 (or $100 depending on tire) to be worth it.

Robert C

This is where I come from with studs also. It just isn't worth the risk. I don't do a lot of the stunt riding I used to do either. I have crashed on ice in the past and plan to avoid doing so in the future.

mcours2006

The jury is still out for me on studs. I rode on them for the first time today after an overnight dusting of snow that covered the side roads where I live. Cars had compacted it down to where it looked quite slick. I was glad I had them on.

The on the primary and secondary roads it was more or less clear, but wet. So I was glad I had them when I needed them, but then I had to endure the road noise for the rest of the ride into work.